We need a true NT

[Chawker]

Al woods is gone, Mone is hurt, we need some beef in the middle of the line. Is Pete and john thinking that some team is going to trim someone when they cut there rooster down to 53 ? That would be an act of desperation and a poor way to run a railroad. I dont care what anybody says, "a 285 pound DT isn't big enough to be a NT". We need help !

Cheers

 

[BlueTalon]

Is Pete and john thinking that some team is going to trim someone when they cut there rooster down to 53 ? That would be an act of desperation and a poor way to run a railroad.

Pete and John have always looked at final roster cuts as another legitimate source of players. Free agency, the draft, UDFA, roster cuts. I don't see anything wrong with that. Heck, other teams usually poach a few of our roster cuts before we get a chance to sign them to the practice squad.

 

[CPHawk]

Why? We are going to a new 2-4-5. It’s the answer to our rush D wows

 

[sutz]

I thought we drafted one.

Cameron Young (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

6'3"/315 lbs

 

[Hollandhawk]

I thought we drafted one.

Cameron Young (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

6'3"/315 lbs

Jarran Reed is over 300lbs too.

 

[Smellyman]

the days of true NTs are going away

 

[Maelstrom787]

Al woods is gone, Mone is hurt, we need some beef in the middle of the line. Is Pete and john thinking that some team is going to trim someone when they cut there rooster down to 53 ? That would be an act of desperation and a poor way to run a railroad. I dont care what anybody says, "a 285 pound DT isn't big enough to be a NT". We need help !

Cheers

Who is the 285 pound DT are they calling a nose tackle? Tavai listed at nose?

 

[hawkfan68]

Who is the 285 pound DT are they calling a nose tackle? Tavai listed at nose?

Yes. Tavai and Faoliu are only players listed as NT on Seahawks.com. They are both listed under 300 pounds. https://www.seahawks.com/team/players-roster/

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yes. Tavai and Faoliu are only players listed as NT on Seahawks.com. They are both listed under 300 pounds. https://www.seahawks.com/team/players-roster/

That's really quirky. I know they view Young as a nose based on their post-draft comments. Wonder if the site is just listing guys weirdly.

Who knows what they've got up their sleeve, though.

 

[Hawkmode]

NT is really important in a true 3-4...our "hybrid" version is a modified 4-3 using 3-4 "types'' ...usually a 3T (Dre)...a NT (0/1T) (Cam Young currently)...and a Big End (5T) (Jarran Reed) with one of our two OLB/Edge staying on line of scrimmage as 9T (wide end)(Darryl Taylor) while other Edge/OLB (Uchenna) drops back into coverage.

The other thing to consider is that of all the Defensive positions...your NT is not tasked with "reads" or "keys"...its a position of true physicality not technique so heftier guys are a plus to grab double team attention from beefy guards and buff centers. Roster cuts are excellent low cap cost plug and plays...relax

 

[bileever]

Large, oversized and athletic nose tackles are hard to come by. You can go to any fan forum of any NFL team and see people complaining about how their team needs one. They don't grow on trees.

On the other hand, it's not clear that a 330-pound NT is the missing piece here. To be successful in the NFC West, and really, anywhere in the NFL, you have to be able to stop the outside zone run scheme used by Kyle Shanahan of the 49ers, Sean McVay of the Rams, and just about everyone else in this copycat league.

For those of you interested, here is a good article that describes what it is, and how to stop it. Vic Fangio, Bill Belichick and others have devised effective ways to counter the Shanahan scheme, and it's not by using the 3-4, even though people mistakenly believe that that's what Fangio mainly runs:

Shanahan Scheme Analysis: Part 1 – Thin Air

 

[CallMeADawg]

Yep, Seattle has no plan for this. Thank God for the fans that can point stuff out that the team is clearly aware of.

 

[Mick063]

All the team needs are interior defensive lineman that can make plays. If they have that, they can devise a reliable defense that works. We won't know if they have that until about three games into the season. Primarily because preseason evaluation has been neutered by league policy changes.

The team is so stacked at defensive end and outside linebacker, that they can lineup in just about any defensive formation they want to.

 

[Hawkmode]

Yep, Seattle has no plan for this. Thank God for the fans that can point stuff out that the team is clearly aware of.

He he funny take...

 

[Hawkmode]

Large, oversized and athletic nose tackles are hard to come by. You can go to any fan forum of any NFL team and see people complaining about how their team needs one. They don't grow on trees.

On the other hand, it's not clear that a 330-pound NT is the missing piece here. To be successful in the NFC West, and really, anywhere in the NFL, you have to be able to stop the outside zone run scheme used by Kyle Shanahan of the 49ers, Sean McVay of the Rams, and just about everyone else in this copycat league.

For those of you interested, here is a good article that describes what it is, and how to stop it. Vic Fangio, Bill Belichick and others have devised effective ways to counter the Shanahan scheme, and it's not by using the 3-4, even though people mistakenly believe that that's what Fangio mainly runs:

Shanahan Scheme Analysis: Part 1 – Thin Air

Your opening to your post bears a lot of merit...didn't mean to suggest they "grow" on trees...just that its easier to scheme around having a rookie NT than it would be from a 3T/4i/5T/9T...you don't need a great NT type...just a good one... effective at warranting an O-lines double team efforts. This focus on run defense will become "moot" if our offense rises into the upper tiers of teams able to put up scores in bunches. Once behind by two or more scores...an opponent can no longer have the time to exploit any rushing advantage it might hold...it becomes "abandoned". Our secondary and pass rushing are designed to take advantage of an offense seeking new heights in scoring output. It's becoming easier to "see" Pete's new vision for success based on the current NFL "climate".

 

[far north]

Theres a couple huge run stuffing NT in next years draft they should get them both.

 

[Hawkmode]

Theres a couple huge run stuffing NT in next years draft they should get them both.

Simple as that...I suspect our 2023 winning opportunities might play out into drawing the usual "penalty" of a winning team...lower draft positioning. John Schneider did a good job "loading up" on key talent positions that normally carry a higher "price tag" in free agency while still placing our talent base needs into a narrowing focus. NT seems obvious but off ball LB...TE depending on Fant/Parkinson being extended...and the "trenches" (always needing more/improved). John Schneider is trusting in his evaluation of our Geno/Lock QB situation...so far...so good.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I honestly think we're going back to a 4-3 cover 3 style of defense, and Pete just hasn't told anyone.

- he's got his Earl free safety fully healthy now in Diggs who can cover a lot of ground
- he's got his run stuffing MLB back in Wagner
- he's got a deep D-line roster full of versatile linemen who can play multiple techniques.
- he's got two nasty physical cover corners who can lock down their sides

Just remember when the season starts where you heard it 1st. In now way does what Pete and John have done the last two off seasons = sticking with the 3-4 scheme that didn't work last year. It ALL spells going back to Pete Ball on defense with long athletic bullies.

 

[far north]

Next draft Tvondre Sweat 6'4-340 and Cam Jackson 6'6-355

 

[keasley45]

I honestly think we're going back to a 4-3 cover 3 style of defense, and Pete just hasn't told anyone.

- he's got his Earl free safety fully healthy now in Diggs who can cover a lot of ground
- he's got his run stuffing MLB back in Wagner
- he's got a deep D-line roster full of versatile linemen who can play multiple techniques.
- he's got two nasty physical cover corners who can lock down their sides

Just remember when the season starts where you heard it 1st. In now way does what Pete and John have done the last two off seasons = sticking with the 3-4 scheme that didn't work last year. It ALL spells going back to Pete Ball on defense with long athletic bullies.

I don't know, man. I think Pete has a desire to leave a mark on the game and innovate some new twist on defense that has seldom been seen.

Bill's Patriots are running their chameleon scheme, which constantly involves a wildcard X position that allows them to adapt to almost any look they see. Their players love it.

The 'Fangio' defense of late is a thing.

To me the adherence to what has been deemed a 'complex' scheme, might be because he doesn't want to give up on what he sees is a 'master stroke' change that will transform our play and evolve the game in some way - or at least add a wrinkle that will forever be 'Pete's'.

I'm not saying he's doing it at the team's expense. Although you can debate the value of doing a thing that has shown to be a liability with the players you have on deck. It just seems like there's something they're chasing. Bringing in Sean Desai last year pointed to them trying hard to teach as much as coach. Karl Scott is also as much a cerebral 'teacher' type as he is a coach, and is now working with the DBs.

And some game analysis last year spoke directly to the Hawks scheme being 'close' to being the Swiss Army knife that it seems like Pete is looking for. MattyBroen touched on this a few times. But execution / mental errors and mistakes seemed to be as much the cause of breakdowns as physical talent or players not being suited for the scheme.

So I don't know what we are going to see. I don't think we will truly know until week 1 even. But their underplaying of the NT position does seem as though they don't see themselves NEEDING the typical 0tech body.

Then again, Pete has said that they just don't see big 'talented' NTs as necessary to success in their '3 4' fronts. Is it because we aren't going to run a lot of it? No clue.

All I can say is that I hope that if they are staying the course, that the additional year of experience and new blood are what they need to get over the hump. If you listen to Q Diggs and J Adams, they seem to get what's happening and where things are going. Hopefully the failures have been more mental in nature and the deletion of certain players and the addition of others were the change we need.