Weekly fire Bevell Wishful thinking

[Sgt. Largent]

Ray Roberts was on Brock and Salk this morning talking about how the personnel we have perform substanially better in up tempo, spread formations. Splitting Graham wide, looking for 1 on 1 matchups and most importantly operating quicker because Wilson gets in a rhythm and plays at a high level in a short, quick passing attack. So it's not just eager fans observing serious flaws with Pete's offensive ideology.

I've been saying this for three years.

We no longer have the personnel to run Pete's offensive scheme. Russell is a VERY good tempo rhythm passer that gets hotter and hotter the more his confidence grows as the game goes along.

So how does it make sense to keep him in a slow plodding stagnant run the play clock down to 2 seconds, then hand it off style of offense?

He's arguably the best athletic accurate QB in the entire freakin' league who's now in his prime. Take the damn chains off and change the scheme!

But no, Pete isn't capable of this sort of wholesale philosophical scheme change. He's just not.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I kind of think Pete is coming around a little bit though. When's the last time they cracked out a razzle-dazzle receiver pass like McEvoy attempted in the first quarter Sunday? I think he's loosening up and that's good so that D coordinators are kept guessing.

Now I don't think we'll get carried away and get too gadgety, but like Sarge said, let's alternate the tempo and mix in some new looks to make our offense a little more dynamic. Maybe teams won't stack the box with 7 or 8 players when they expect run as much then. That would work to our advantage on offense as Rawls and Lacy will discover a few more open gaps to run through.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I kind of think Pete is coming around a little bit though. When's the last time they cracked out a razzle-dazzle receiver pass like McEvoy attempted in the first quarter Sunday? I think he's loosening up and that's good so that D coordinators are kept guessing.

Now I don't think we'll get carried away and get too gadgety, but like Sarge said, let's alternate the tempo and mix in some new looks to make our offense a little more dynamic. Maybe teams won't stack the box with 7 or 8 players when they expect run as much then. That would work to our advantage on offense as Rawls and Lacy will discover a few more open gaps to run through.

Pete's always had his bag of tricks, sneak onsides, Ryan throwing TD's, etc.

And is he really coming around? Or is he coming around kicking and screaming? Pass plays have been up four years straight now, but IMO that's not a product of any enlightened philosophical scheme change............it's because the run game is a disaster, so we have no choice.

Big difference.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

We all love to hate on Bevell, but until we have an offensive line that is even serviceable the blame falls on PC/JS and Cable for not being able to put it together. I just don't see how a jockey is supposed to ride a broken race horse to the promised land.

Could Bevell call better plays and have our offense running more of an up-tempo spread offense? Not with Pete breathing down his neck and banging the "we want to run the ball" drum the entirety of the pre-season. Pete wants our identity to be something that, at this point, we just simply don't have the personnel to achieve.

 

[mrt144]

This is all nonsense. Virtually every fanbase in the NFL hates their offensive coordinator and is convinced he's holding the team back. The only reason he's "objectively terrible" is because this place is a hive mind echo chamber and everybody agrees with each other, reinforcing beliefs like this.

How can you say he is "objectively" bad? Even if our offensive is inefficient, how could you possibly isolate the failure to him? How do you differentiate between playcalling and on-the field execution (quarterback play, porous offensive line, etc). That's just it, you can't, so trotting out lazy narratives like "Bevell is holding us back" is an incredibly weak and anything but "objective".

And no, I'm sorry, but "omg did u see how good wilson did in the 2-minute drill, thats what the offense looks like w/o Bevell!!" is not sound reasoning.

You must be new here, there is no satiating the Bevell parrots with logic and reason.

The fact is we (Bevell, Pete, Russell) run the same offense as half the teams in the league, including one of the best offenses in the league right now, the Chiefs.

Amazing how awesome your offense looks when you have a great O-line, good QB and dynamic playmakers at the skill positions. Suddenly you're a genius playcaller. Everyone in KC was calling for Reid's head the past 2-3 years. Now they have Hunt and Hill, and they're rolling and Reid and the offense look like geniuses.

Tell me that the shovel pass to Kelce being a staple hasn't made you jealous.

Yes to Kelce, the most uniquely dynamic TE in the entire league. You think Jimmy or Willson could pull off that play? I don't.

That's my point, talent matters, and for Bevell's ENTIRE stint in Seattle he hasn't had much to work with.

To me, that the OC and Reid have a play that capitalizes on everything Kelce can do, in a relatively novel way, is the KIND of play I'd love to have on hand and I don't feel like we do. Some might call it a gimmick but do gimmicks work so wonderfully so often? I call it harnessing potential and making stuff happen.

 

[hawkfan68]

This is all nonsense. Virtually every fanbase in the NFL hates their offensive coordinator and is convinced he's holding the team back. The only reason he's "objectively terrible" is because this place is a hive mind echo chamber and everybody agrees with each other, reinforcing beliefs like this.

How can you say he is "objectively" bad? Even if our offensive is inefficient, how could you possibly isolate the failure to him? How do you differentiate between playcalling and on-the field execution (quarterback play, porous offensive line, etc). That's just it, you can't, so trotting out lazy narratives like "Bevell is holding us back" is an incredibly weak and anything but "objective".

And no, I'm sorry, but "omg did u see how good wilson did in the 2-minute drill, thats what the offense looks like w/o Bevell!!" is not sound reasoning.

You must be new here, there is no satiating the Bevell parrots with logic and reason.

The fact is we (Bevell, Pete, Russell) run the same offense as half the teams in the league, including one of the best offenses in the league right now, the Chiefs.

Amazing how awesome your offense looks when you have a great O-line, good QB and dynamic playmakers at the skill positions. Suddenly you're a genius playcaller. Everyone in KC was calling for Reid's head the past 2-3 years. Now they have Hunt and Hill, and they're rolling and Reid and the offense look like geniuses.

Tell me that the shovel pass to Kelce being a staple hasn't made you jealous.

Yes to Kelce, the most uniquely dynamic TE in the entire league. You think Jimmy or Willson could pull off that play? I don't.

That's my point, talent matters, and for Bevell's ENTIRE stint in Seattle he hasn't had much to work with.

- 40% of the cap space for the offense
- conservative ball control run first coach dictating scheme
- small slight WR corp
- No Lynch for three years
- worst O-line in the league for what now 3 years running?

I'm frustrated and tried with this offense too, it SHOULD be better. But blaming the O-coordinator is bush league fans picking the low hanging fruit blame. That's what every fan base does, and it's just not correct.

We have a systemic problem with the entire offensive philosophy. Pete refuses to change how he wants the offense to operate. He wants it to be like it was with Lynch and a good O-line in 2012-2013, ball control, punishing, physical shorten the game with 4-5 explosive plays type of offense............and it's JUST.NOT.WORKING.

Comparing Kelce, Gronk, or whomever is useless. Kelce and Gronk are central pieces in their respective offenses. Graham will never be a central piece in the Seahawk offense. Whether that is on Bevell or PC, it doesn't make a difference. If Graham was on the Pats or Chiefs, he would be a monster. Because they look and use the TE position in a different way.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Comparing Kelce, Gronk, or whomever is useless. Kelce and Gronk are central pieces in their respective offenses. Graham will never be a central piece in the Seahawk offense. Whether that is on Bevell or PC, it doesn't make a difference. If Graham was on the Pats or Chiefs, he would be a monster. Because they look and use the TE position in a different way.

They also have a coach, coordinator and QB that can successfully run those schemes.

Do we? You can have great players, but if your head coach refuses to allow your coordinator and QB to wholesale change your offensive scheme to better take advantage of a TE like Graham, then who's fault is that? Sure ain't Bevell's.

 

[hawkfan68]

Comparing Kelce, Gronk, or whomever is useless. Kelce and Gronk are central pieces in their respective offenses. Graham will never be a central piece in the Seahawk offense. Whether that is on Bevell or PC, it doesn't make a difference. If Graham was on the Pats or Chiefs, he would be a monster. Because they look and use the TE position in a different way.

They also have a coach, coordinator and QB that can successfully run those schemes.

Do we? You can have great players, but if your head coach refuses to allow your coordinator and QB to wholesale change your offensive scheme to better take advantage of a TE like Graham, then who's fault is that? Sure ain't Bevell's.

Here's the thing....why acquire Graham in the first place then? Does PC make decisions out of the cloud and not consult with Bevell/Cable in the process? I do believe that Bevell/Cable have some input with PC. PC didn't use TE much prior to Graham. So there isn't much of a change there. Graham was a central piece in the Saints offense. He is not here.

Prior to Graham, they went and traded for Percy Harvin. A player that Bevell had prior experience and knew well. Do you honestly believe that Bevell didn't have any influence on Harvin acquisition? I'm sure he did. After acquiring Harvin, he couldn't get him to fit in.

It's not all on Bevell but he definitely has a hand in it. It's on the entire offensive brain trust. They make terrible decisions when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Seymour]

Here's the thing....why acquire Graham in the first place then?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's not all on Bevell but he definitely has a hand in it. It's on the entire offensive brain trust. They make terrible decisions when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

Of course, this is a team game. When the team fails, it's a group effort.

And I have no idea why we traded for Graham if we weren't going to change some of our scheming and offensive philosophy. I guess Pete and John saw that we sucked in the red zone, and thought they could figure out how to use Graham to improve that.

But when you're not dynamic passing offense with the skill players at WR to compliment Graham, you get what we see, Graham being double and triple bracketed inside the red zone.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I'm not sure what you mean, Sarge, by us not being dynamic with the skill players at WR. I'd put Doug, Lock and PRich right up there with the best receiving corps in the game.

 

[Seymour]

It's not all on Bevell but he definitely has a hand in it. It's on the entire offensive brain trust. They make terrible decisions when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

Of course, this is a team game. When the team fails, it's a group effort.

And I have no idea why we traded for Graham if we weren't going to change some of our scheming and offensive philosophy. I guess Pete and John saw that we sucked in the red zone, and thought they could figure out how to use Graham to improve that.

But when you're not dynamic passing offense with the skill players at WR to compliment Graham, you get what we see, Graham being double and triple bracketed inside the red zone.

That is being way over stated here lately. Graham is rarely double teamed anymore, and triple teamed NEVER. Go watch his last TD catch again.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's not all on Bevell but he definitely has a hand in it. It's on the entire offensive brain trust. They make terrible decisions when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

Of course, this is a team game. When the team fails, it's a group effort.

And I have no idea why we traded for Graham if we weren't going to change some of our scheming and offensive philosophy. I guess Pete and John saw that we sucked in the red zone, and thought they could figure out how to use Graham to improve that.

But when you're not dynamic passing offense with the skill players at WR to compliment Graham, you get what we see, Graham being double and triple bracketed inside the red zone.

That is being way over stated here lately. Graham is rarely double teamed anymore, and triple teamed NEVER. Go watch his last TD catch again.

Follow any of the Hawk beat writers or super fans like Hsu on Twitter, and see how they break down the film and show Graham double and triple bracketed in the red zone.

This is not news, it's how teams have defended him from day one of being here. One TD last week doesn't change this fact. Teams play nickel and dime zone, bracket Graham and Doug and force Russell to throw it elsewhere.

 

[Seymour]

It's not all on Bevell but he definitely has a hand in it. It's on the entire offensive brain trust. They make terrible decisions when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

Of course, this is a team game. When the team fails, it's a group effort.

And I have no idea why we traded for Graham if we weren't going to change some of our scheming and offensive philosophy. I guess Pete and John saw that we sucked in the red zone, and thought they could figure out how to use Graham to improve that.

But when you're not dynamic passing offense with the skill players at WR to compliment Graham, you get what we see, Graham being double and triple bracketed inside the red zone.

That is being way over stated here lately. Graham is rarely double teamed anymore, and triple teamed NEVER. Go watch his last TD catch again.

Follow any of the Hawk beat writers or super fans like Hsu on Twitter, and see how they break down the film and show Graham double and triple bracketed in the red zone.

This is not news, it's how teams have defended him from day one of being here. One TD last week doesn't change this fact. Teams play nickel and dime zone, bracket Graham and Doug and force Russell to throw it elsewhere.

The one TD is just one example. Like I said, go watch him. Yes that used to be the case, but is not often the case anymore.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...-graham-in-red-zone-saturday-against-atlanta/

While have some have wondered if opponents aren’t sometimes double teaming Graham more once Seattle gets close — that appeared to be the case on the final play of the New Orleans game, when Russell Wilson instead threw to Kearse, who caught the pass just outside of the end zone — Bevell said he hasn’t necessarily sensed that.

“I don’t know if they pay any extra attention than they do when he’s in the field,’’ Bevell said. “When Jimmy Graham is out there, he’s a factor for us and they have to pay attention to him.”

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Of course, this is a team game. When the team fails, it's a group effort.

And I have no idea why we traded for Graham if we weren't going to change some of our scheming and offensive philosophy. I guess Pete and John saw that we sucked in the red zone, and thought they could figure out how to use Graham to improve that.

But when you're not dynamic passing offense with the skill players at WR to compliment Graham, you get what we see, Graham being double and triple bracketed inside the red zone.

That is being way over stated here lately. Graham is rarely double teamed anymore, and triple teamed NEVER. Go watch his last TD catch again.

Follow any of the Hawk beat writers or super fans like Hsu on Twitter, and see how they break down the film and show Graham double and triple bracketed in the red zone.

This is not news, it's how teams have defended him from day one of being here. One TD last week doesn't change this fact. Teams play nickel and dime zone, bracket Graham and Doug and force Russell to throw it elsewhere.

The one TD is just one example. Like I said, go watch him. Yes that used to be the case, but is not often the case anymore.

I do watch him, and see the game pics showing as much.

Is that the case ALL the time? Of course not, and we could do better with the playcalling and even more so, Russell throwing it to the right spots to give Graham a chance.

Lastly, Graham himself could do a better job. He's soft in his breaks, he's soft getting off blocks, he's soft fighting for the ball, he's slow running routes.

But I know, Fire Bevell! That'll solve all of this.

 

[Seymour]

But I know, Fire Bevell! That'll solve all of this.

Read my updated quote. Bevell doesn't see it either.

And no, fire Cable and trade Graham for oline help would be the best shot at fixing it.

I've said several times Cable is the larger problem, and Bevell (although poor at his job), could get the job done with an oline.

 

[Ozzy]

That is being way over stated here lately. Graham is rarely double teamed anymore, and triple teamed NEVER. Go watch his last TD catch again.

Follow any of the Hawk beat writers or super fans like Hsu on Twitter, and see how they break down the film and show Graham double and triple bracketed in the red zone.

This is not news, it's how teams have defended him from day one of being here. One TD last week doesn't change this fact. Teams play nickel and dime zone, bracket Graham and Doug and force Russell to throw it elsewhere.

The one TD is just one example. Like I said, go watch him. Yes that used to be the case, but is not often the case anymore.

I do watch him, and see the game pics showing as much.

Is that the case ALL the time? Of course not, and we could do better with the playcalling and even more so, Russell throwing it to the right spots to give Graham a chance.

Lastly, Graham himself could do a better job. He's soft in his breaks, he's soft getting off blocks, he's soft fighting for the ball, he's slow running routes.

But I know, Fire Bevell! That'll solve all of this.

I would be willing to bet if Bevell was fired and someone new was brought in the offense would improve. We may have to wait a couple years but hopefully we remember this thread and revisit this lol.

Bevell isn't the only problem but you mentioned Twitter, I've seen multiple smart offensive minds absolutely baffled at bevell's route concepts, situational play calls and initial game plans to believe they know what they're talking about. These are respected offensive minds who have spent a lot of time around the league. He's a major part of the problem imo. Not the sole problem but a big part of it.

 

[sdog1981]

That is why this whole argument is going around in circles. A new OC will fire Cable and bring in his Oline coach. After three years if this new OC gets the O going it wont matter beacuase all of the defenseive stars on the team will be well into the twilight of there careers. The offense will score 30 points a week but it will give up 28 and we will all want the DC fired.

 

[Ozzy]

Here's a question for Sarge and Sioux.... We tried to establish the run by running right at Donald the whole game. He's one of, in not the best in the game. This scout noted play after play and was baffled by Seattle's decision to run right at the strength of the defense when every other team schemes away from Donald. Does that make much sense to you? That's on Bevell. Not Pete, Wilson, the line but Bevell.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Here's a question for Sarge and Sioux.... We tried to establish the run by running right at Donald the whole game. He's one of, in not the best in the game. This scout noted play after play and was baffled by Seattle's decision to run right at the strength of the defense when every other team schemes away from Donald. Does that make much sense to you? That's on Bevell. Not Pete, Wilson, the line but Bevell.

Since you haven't given specific examples, I can't evaluate a specific play on the all 22 and breakdown what happened and explain it to you. Then perhaps you could explain it to your experts (whether or not they would be able to understand it is another issue altogether). Therefore, you have to look at several possibilities for this play calling. First, it is possible that we had the run called, lined up, and Russell read the defensive alignment and chose to stay with the called play instead of checking to something different. Second, it is possible that a different play was called and Russell checked to the run at Donald after he saw the defensive alignment. Third, it is possible that Russell is not given the option to check out of a play once he sees the defensive alignment. If it really is obvious to you and these "experts" (who I note you fail to site, seems like a very weak attempt to lend more credibility to uneducated opinions) then either A) Russell is incapable of reading a defense, or B) the coaching staff doesn't trust him to read the D and make the appropriate adjustments.

There is of course another possibility here. It is possible that you can effectively slow down an elite pass rusher by running directly at him. Running directly at Donald on occasion may have been the only way to slow him down enough to give Russell a couple seconds to get a pass off on other plays. If your so called experts were in fact experts, I would think they would be familiar with this since it is hardly a new or unusual concept.