Wilson is not Elite

[SoulfishHawk]

7 years in, and people still refuse to give the guy credit for leading the team to two super bowls and a ridiculous amount of regular season and playoff wins. At this point, I need to start laughing at it. Mainly because I have given up trying to make any sense of why so many people are flat out against giving that guy credit for ANYTHING. Why do people get so personal with this guy? He's been nothing but class and total leader on this team. And a winner.

 

[semiahmoo]

Wilson rode the coattails of a HOF defense. Once the defense, got shipped out, he is getting exposed as a bus driver. Put Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck on the 2012-2015 Seahawks, they all would have had 1 or more championships.

A bit harsh on Wilson IMO. He's a class act who, historically, has played his guts out.

That said, yes, he has serious deficiencies that don't appear to have been fully lessened by experience. If anything, the experience in the league has left him a bit slower and thus more fully exposing his deficiencies.

With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

The stats of the previous few seasons are illegitimate. The only stat that matters are playoff wins and a ticket to the big show.

The big question that many of you have already posed is do we pay Wilson the next big contract.

Well, the last time we did that did the team get better overall or worse in the seasons that followed?

There's where the answer can be found...

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson rode the coattails of a HOF defense. Once the defense, got shipped out, he is getting exposed as a bus driver. Put Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck on the 2012-2015 Seahawks, they all would have had 1 or more championships.

A bit harsh on Wilson IMO. He's a class act who, historically, has played his guts out.

That said, yes, he has serious deficiencies that don't appear to have been fully lessened by experience. If anything, the experience in the league has left him a bit slower and thus more fully exposing his deficiencies.

With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

The stats of the previous few seasons are illegitimate. The only stat that matters are playoff wins and a ticket to the big show.

The big question that many of you have already posed is do we pay Wilson the next big contract.

Well, the last time we did that did the team get better overall or worse in the seasons that followed?

There's where the answer can be found...

He has shown he can shoulder the burden the last 3 years. The stats reflect that.

The rest of the team could not.

That said, whether or not his next contract is here is probably based on whether he thinks the Seahawks are good enough for him.

 

[semiahmoo]

Elite? Did I miss something? I don't hate Wilson because he plays for the Hawks ; but I also don't hold up his poster with one hand...Wilson is somewhat better than an average QB...but elite?...Nope

By putting him in the average category you are putting him square in the Flacco, Winston, Dalton, Cousins zone. Is that your assessment of Wilson? That he should be ranked with those guys?

I'd say he's a bit higher than average. I agree he's not eilite but he is a franchise QB and works as hard as anyone to get better. He has limitations and I think coaching has been one of the biggest limitations. He thrives despite bad coaching much like Rodgers and Rivers. Whereas Brees, Goff, Mahomes, Brady thrive with great coaching as well.

Right on - well said.

"A bit higher than average" is accurate.

With the right crew around him he can be very good as can other better than average QBs.

And the poor coaching you mention doesn't receive nearly enough attention and is one I think is a big reason for Wilson seeming stagnation in recent seasons. (Not so much stat wise but overall legit playoff threat offense wise)

 

[Ambrose83]

Wilson is a fantastic qb.... He had a off game.... Every qb does...... How many times has Rogers or brees done Any thing without a great defense or running game? How about newton, or Brady...... Look at his stats, playoff wins etc, 4th qtr comebacks ..... Every metric says he's top 5..... Why don't you guys grade the other "elites" with as harsh a brush as our own guy?

 

[Mad Dog]

With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

..

I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.

 

[semiahmoo]

With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

..

I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.

I can pretty much agree with all of the above.

I like Wilson - a lot. Yeah, I give him a hard time now and again, but you're right, he works as hard as anyone to overcome his deficiencies. And he's a class act.

As to whether we should pay him the King's Ransom on the next contract, that's a tough one. I do worry his physical limitations might be accelerated over the next few seasons due to the pounding he took the previous few seasons.

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson is a fantastic qb.... He had a off game.... Every qb does...... How many times has Rogers or brees done Any thing without a great defense or running game? How about newton, or Brady...... Look at his stats, playoff wins etc, 4th qtr comebacks ..... Every metric says he's top 5..... Why don't you guys grade the other "elites" with as harsh a brush as our own guy?

Doesnt fit the very thin narrative

Team wins.. its all because of other players

Team loses.. (despite MVP numbers from the QB)... QB can't shoulder the burden.

 

[semiahmoo]

With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

..

I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.

Given your wise words I'd love to hear if you think we should pay him the big $$$$ on the next contract?

 

[Uncle Si]

Should Rodgers have been paid that contract?

His stats are similar to Wilson. He's clearly slowed down since multiple injuries, and Wilson has more wins.

 

[semiahmoo]

That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

1) Ownership.

2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.

 

[Uncle Si]

That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

1) Ownership.

2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.

I think if you invest in Wilson the organization needs to upgrade the offensive philosophy to include better and more dynamic receivers to go with the running game.

That might mean a new OC.

It's a huge risk.

 

[semiahmoo]

That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

1) Ownership.

2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.

I think if you invest in Wilson the organization needs to upgrade the offensive philosophy to include better and more dynamic receivers to go with the running game.

That might mean a new OC.

It's a huge risk.

Totally agree on the huge risk.

 

[Ambrose83]

When has a franchise qb in his prime ever left the team he's on? Never is the answer..... Wilson will be a hawk for life. Any thing less is pure stupidity .

 

[chris98251]

You all bitching about Wilson and splitting hairs when you could have this guy to talk about.



Poor Buffalo.

 

[Seymour]

You all bitching about Wilson and splitting hairs when you could have this guy to talk about.

Poor Buffalo.

Damn......why is Mr Peterman checking his play sheet on the way down?? :lol: :lol:

 

[knownone]

The fact that there is a reasonable argument on both sides of the "is Wilson elite?" debate should tell us everything we need to know about the question. Wilson is in that conversation. This is the first real time in his career where he's going to have to be the difference maker on a consistent basis if this team is going to be a contender. In many ways, we're seeing parallels to Wilson in how the Packers are playing with Aaron Rodgers. Both guys are on teams in the midst of retooling and both are struggling to overcome the deficiencies of their teams.

I personally believe the distinction between 'elite' and 'game manager' is misleading. Every QB is better with talent around them so unless they have equivalent levels of talent around them, it's pretty much useless to compare QBs. In other words, being 'elite' should be defined in terms of value abstract from all other variables and when you do that it's hard to imagine a scenario where you can't build a championship level team around Russell Wilson.

 

[Jerhawk]

Wilson is a great player, and represents everything great about this franchise.

However, I'd love to see Wilson's win/loss ratio in games where we ask him to throw over 30 times a game.
The team seems to win much more often when he throws it under 30 times a game.

I know it's stating the obvious, but it's really how this team has been built. If Wilson has help with the run game, then he can torch the defense with play action. It also allows us to control time of possession and keep the defense rested.

 

[LymonHawk]

I really don't care if Wilson is considered elite or not. Does it make the size of your penis any larger, or smaller if he is or isn't?

He's the 'Hawks QB, and as so gets my support. Go 'Hawks!! :les:

 

[LTH]

4-4 with 8 to play, 4 home games in Dec. But yeah, there's "no chance" at playoffs. Ok.......

Right? God it's fun listening to fans overreact after a loss.

Not.

Where is the darn like button!!