Rashaad Penny

Spin Doctor · Nov 9, 2018

MontanaHawk05":2prxtnxi said:
cheese22":2prxtnxi said:

I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.

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You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.

Seahawkfan80 · Nov 9, 2018

West TX Hawk":39hxmq14 said:
hawkfan68":39hxmq14 said:

cheese22":39hxmq14 said:

It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.

Click to expand...

I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ffer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).

Click to expand...

If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.

Last season there were people bashing on Davis. He must have done something wrong for us to be praising him now. Or maybe it was that he has had some experience in this system and can see the holes better now. Ach...nevermind. :evil:

Penny needs the same time to learn to see the creases and seams. They are different and he is getting there. But people will bash him because they want it all NOW. Too bad Penny was not available last season...he would have been much better this season then. :roll:

MontanaHawk05 · Nov 9, 2018

Spin Doctor":22cyn2wo said:
MontanaHawk05":22cyn2wo said:

cheese22":22cyn2wo said:

I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.

Click to expand...

You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.

This was not a good draft for offensive linemen.

Seymour · Nov 9, 2018

West TX Hawk":1vvb50sd said:
hawkfan68":1vvb50sd said:

cheese22":1vvb50sd said:

It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.

Click to expand...

I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ffer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).

Click to expand...

If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.

To be fair, that is exactly what Mike Davis averaged last year here. 3.5 YPC. His first 2 years he averaged 2.0 YPC with the whiners.
Obviously that Oline was not as good, so your point is still valid. My biggest gripe is starting every drive (after a score) on the 15 when putting nobody back there would get you to the 25. That is hurting the team just to get him touches.

ukeface:

themunn · Nov 9, 2018

From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.

Jeremy517 · Nov 9, 2018

themunn":rtqeuxhi said:
From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.

Last year Cable was still ruining the offensive line. The love child of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders couldn't have run behind that line.

edogg23 · Nov 9, 2018

You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...

Seymour · Nov 9, 2018

edogg23":1tj2pbnd said:
You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...

Agree on not passing the eye test. Could he possibly make someone miss....just once even? In both his runs, and kick returns, he cannot make anyone miss! He gets touched and he's going down. No matter what. That is not something you will see from any very good running back. Hell even Wilson who was slower out of College then Penny makes people miss all the time.

MontanaHawk05 · Nov 9, 2018

Jeremy517":lqaw6t0l said:
themunn":lqaw6t0l said:

From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.

Click to expand...

Last year Cable was still ruining the offensive line. The love child of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders couldn't have run behind that line.

Lynch did.

Carson did, before he was injured.

The RB matters. It's not all about the offensive line and the few remaining people who insist we keep blowing first-round picks on nothing but OL need to examine the stats more carefully. QB/RB play are both heavily influential on the running game. It's not just "OL can make anyone better".

West TX Hawk · Nov 9, 2018

Seymour":38sx35w8 said:
edogg23":38sx35w8 said:

You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...

Click to expand...

Agree on not passing the eye test. Could he possibly make someone miss....just once even? In both his runs, and kick returns, he cannot make anyone miss! He gets touched and he's going down. No matter what. That is not something you will see from any very good running back. Hell even Wilson who was slower out of College then Penny makes people miss all the time.

Agreed. There's a big difference between game speed and combine speed. Some guys are equally fast, others are gamers and elevate their quickness and entire level of play in games. Others like Penny thus far are far less fast than their clocked times.

Some players are instinctive amd decisive while others look like they're panicking. Penny appears to have a lack of confidence in his game, is hesitant, goes down on 1st contact as you said and per the eye test lacks NFL high level acceleration. Hopefully he improves.

mikeak · Nov 9, 2018

We fired our O-line coach because he sucked. We fired our OC because he sucked

We said that the biggest issues with our O-line was because of coaching

We saw AC go to Baltimore and show he was a competent NFL runner

We had several RBs on our roster that was probably (they were) looking worse because of all the above

We blew our first round year before on a D-line player because we were in dire need of pass rush

We lost Avril and Bennett

Our primary need was NOT a RB and everything the organization had done up to the draft agreed with that

Jazzhawk · Nov 9, 2018

ImTheScientist":nq5r0ycf said:
xray":nq5r0ycf said:

He got his chance with Carson out....11 yards on 4 carries...1st round bust...IMO

Click to expand...

He was at 4.7 ypc till the 4th run where Hunt blew his assignment and Penny was tackled as he got the handoff.

Let’s be real....
1)you didn’t watch the game.
2)Penny hasn’t been given a chance
3)to say bust and anyone that does instantly proves their opinion wrong and level of NFL knowledge low.

I approve of this message.

rcaido · Nov 9, 2018

mikeak":3aqzpybx said:
We fired our O-line coach because he sucked. We fired our OC because he sucked

We said that the biggest issues with our O-line was because of coaching

We saw AC go to Baltimore and show he was a competent NFL runner

We had several RBs on our roster that was probably (they were) looking worse because of all the above

We blew our first round year before on a D-line player because we were in dire need of pass rush

We lost Avril and Bennett

Our primary need was NOT a RB and everything the organization had done up to the draft agreed with that

I guess you know the team more then Pete & John...Last year Wilson lead the team in rushing...Seem like a logical choice to draft a RB. Remember we turn our 17th pick into 27th pick & also 3rd round pick got RB & our futrue Bennett Replacement with Green.

Spin Doctor · Nov 9, 2018

MontanaHawk05":5lijl40j said:
Spin Doctor":5lijl40j said:

MontanaHawk05":5lijl40j said:

cheese22":5lijl40j said:

I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.

Click to expand...

You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.

Click to expand...

This was not a good draft for offensive linemen.

There was one right where we picked... If turns out he is also the best lineman in the draft thus far. That player would be Hernandez.

Jeremy517 · Nov 9, 2018

MontanaHawk05":ixush6g8 said:
Lynch did.

Carson did, before he was injured.

The RB matters. It's not all about the offensive line and the few remaining people who insist we keep blowing first-round picks on nothing but OL need to examine the stats more carefully. QB/RB play are both heavily influential on the running game. It's not just "OL can make anyone better".

I don't think you even looked at the context of the post that I made. His point was that the pick was justified because he said that RB was the biggest position of need, but you bring up that we had a good running back already on the roster? That would make his point even more wrong. You think Carson is a good RB. Guess what? So do I. RB was nowhere near the biggest position of need.

Regarding last year's line:
I'm not sure if you're arguing that the line wasn't crap last year? Also:
Lynch never ran behind last year's line. He has been gone for three years.
Carson's sample size from last year is too small to draw any conclusions. 15% of his yards last year came on one run. Without that one run, he would have been at 3.7 ypc. Way too small of a sample size. But again, are you really arguing that the line last year was good?

I did not say we needed to spend more first-round picks on OL. With regards to the OL, we did what we needed to do: get rid of Cable. There are positions other than RB and OL, though, and many of those were positions of need.

RB matters, absolutely it does, but RB is also one of the easiest positions to get in later rounds, and RBs almost always get used up (physically) relatively young. People that say that you shouldn't draft a RB in the first round don't mean that RB isn't important or that any RB can be good behind the right OL. So many good RBs come from later rounds or even undrafted. Part of judging a draft pick is where the pick was made. Sebastian Janikowski has had a very good career, but drafting him 17th overall was still a dumb move by the Riaders.

BoltonWanderer · Nov 9, 2018

It's far too soon to write Penny off. I think we all have massive hopes for a first round pick but he wouldn't be the first talented player to have a slow start, so I don't see any reason to worry but he definitely hasn't performed yet. If he looks like this at this point next year, then I'd worry but he's still adapting, so it's not a concern yet.

The other thing to consider is that whilst the offensive line has been great to watch this year, the run blocking hasn't been brilliant. A lot of Penny's runs really are straight into a wall, and even though Carson is performing well, he's doing that by breaking tackles. Penny hasn't had it easy this year, and that's not a dig at the O-Line because I've loved watching them this year, but the run blocking could be better, I think a lot of Penny's failings has been to do with the fact he's not having lanes open to him when he's in the game.

JayhawkMike · Nov 9, 2018

I just looked at the stats of all RBs drafted last draft. You pretty much have to go to the bottom of the 4th round to find a RB that has sucked as bad as Penny. Then there are some better RBs after that. A lot of us hated the pick the second it was announced. Crappy job JS and PC.

justafan · Nov 10, 2018

BoltonWanderer":231vx773 said:
It's far too soon to write Penny off. I think we all have massive hopes for a first round pick but he wouldn't be the first talented player to have a slow start, so I don't see any reason to worry but he definitely hasn't performed yet. If he looks like this at this point next year, then I'd worry but he's still adapting, so it's not a concern yet.

The other thing to consider is that whilst the offensive line has been great to watch this year, the run blocking hasn't been brilliant. A lot of Penny's runs really are straight into a wall, and even though Carson is performing well, he's doing that by breaking tackles. Penny hasn't had it easy this year, and that's not a dig at the O-Line because I've loved watching them this year, but the run blocking could be better, I think a lot of Penny's failings has been to do with the fact he's not having lanes open to him when he's in the game.

I agree. YPC is very average compared with other teams. I love this style of football but our line is average IMO. It feels better than it is after watching them the last few years.

Carson has been unfortunate staying healthy going back to college.Hopefully his luck changes but i wouldnt offer him a large contract and wouldnt be opposed to drafting another RB next year as insurance against injuries or the chance people are right about Penny.

If you are going to be a running team you need horses you can depend on.

Sox-n-Hawks · Nov 10, 2018

I wouldn't put money on the first year being the best indicator of success. He has good nuts and bolts and will develop with time. Was he worth a first round pick? Well, he isn't injured yet. Durability goes a long way with RBs. Let's take a look at some pros who started slow.

1. Peyton Manning, threw almost 30 interceptions and went 3-13
2. Arian Foster couldn't even start for the Texans and turned into a pro bowl caliber back
3. Deuce Mcallister couldn't buy a start his first season, went on to be a total badass for the Aints
4. OJ Simpson didn't start a single game his first year, 3.9 yards per attempt.... another badass
5. Walter Peyton averaged 3.5yds his first season

The list could go on and on. Patience, lets see what develops.

toffee · Nov 10, 2018

Sox-n-Hawks":2ac89htb said:
I wouldn't put money on the first year being the best indicator of success. He has good nuts and bolts and will develop with time. Was he worth a first round pick? Well, he isn't injured yet. Durability goes a long way with RBs. Let's take a look at some pros who started slow.

1. Peyton Manning, threw almost 30 interceptions and went 3-13
2. Arian Foster couldn't even start for the Texans and turned into a pro bowl caliber back
3. Deuce Mcallister couldn't buy a start his first season, went on to be a total badass for the Aints
4. OJ Simpson didn't start a single game his first year, 3.9 yards per attempt.... another badass
5. Walter Peyton averaged 3.5yds his first season

The list could go on and on. Patience, lets see what develops.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Players develop at their own pace, some jump right out of the gate, some kick in down the straight. Penny is trailing bunch of other backs drafted after him, no doubt about that, can he pull a Sea biscuits down the straight? let's see.

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