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Seahawks signing Luke Joeckel to 1 year deal per NFLN

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  • Good news is that he is injury prone (missed 25 of 64 games) , was ranked horribly as an OL for all 4 years he has played, and is overpaid in total, with 7mil guaranteed.

    Sounds like he is a perfect choice to join the cable OL circus.

    He should be in just enough games for us to see how truly bad he is before he has a season ending injury. Then he just becomes dead weight against the cap.

    Hopefully the FO keeps enough in reserve for a couple leg braces and a wheelchair for Russ.
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    johnnyfever
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  • I think the team believes the young guys on the o-line will be good in the long run so they got a one year guy. Also why we didn't get Lang who wanted multi-year deal...
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  • Luke Joeckel had his ankle broken in his rookie year and 3 years later was the victim of a guy that rolled up on his leg while working on a mandated conversion to guard. I wouldn't label him as injury prone. Both the medical staff and position staff signed off on him to justify the contract guarantee.

    2016 was a lost year for Luke because the Jaguars didn't pick up his fifth-year option on his rookie contract and signed Kelvin Beachum in free agency to play left tackle. I think Joeckel came to Seattle to compete for a tackle spot ...... presumably left tackle. And, because left tackle is where the critical NFL shortage is, he fits. His addition to the roster is early enough in the year for team strength & conditioning & dietitians to help him prepare for his come back year as a Seahawk.

    Luke Joeckel may be viewed, by some, as a long shot with a lot to overcome. But, he adds to the program at positions in critical need. This is a real story here that will unfold as the competition begins this summer. Schneider and Carroll believe in their organization and are fearless. Traits that many here at .net could use a booster shot for.
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  • One thing I haven't seen any media members slamming this contract factoring in, is that if Joeckel comes back from injury to play well this season, then he is in line to received a larger contract from another team next season and net the Hawks a potential compensatory pick. The Seahawks could afford to sign a bunch of guys to one year contracts this offseason without worrying about comp picks because Luke Wilson and Hauska are their only free agents of note. If Joekel just plays competent this year, and nets the Hawks a 4th round compensatory pick in the future, I think that's worth 8 million.
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  • ^agree especially since he won't cost a comp pick this year

    But if he sucks we are out another $8million for a crappy player and the last couple of FA signings haven't really instilled confidence
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  • mikeak wrote:^agree especially since he won't cost a comp pick this year

    But if he sucks we are out another $8million for a crappy player and the last couple of FA signings haven't really instilled confidence


    Well I'd say the probability is higher that he will suck this year for the Hawks than turn out decent, but with our salary cap situation and the offensive line talent available in free agency all we have is long-shots to improve the offensive line next year via bringing in outsiders. Unless you want the Hawks to trade up in the 1st round to get a guy like Bolles.
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  • CalgaryHawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:^agree especially since he won't cost a comp pick this year

    But if he sucks we are out another $8million for a crappy player and the last couple of FA signings haven't really instilled confidence


    Well I'd say the probability is higher that he will suck this year for the Hawks than turn out decent, but with our salary cap situation and the offensive line talent available in free agency all we have is long-shots to improve the offensive line next year via bringing in outsiders. Unless you want the Hawks to trade up in the 1st round to get a guy like Bolles.


    Wouldn't be mad if they did.
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  • Jville wrote:Luke Joeckel had his ankle broken in his rookie year and 3 years later was the victim of a guy that rolled up on his leg while working on a mandated conversion to guard. I wouldn't label him as injury prone. Both the medical staff and position staff signed off on him to justify the contract guarantee.

    2016 was a lost year for Luke because the Jaguars didn't pick up his fifth-year option on his rookie contract and signed Kelvin Beachum in free agency to play left tackle. I think Joeckel came to Seattle to compete for a tackle spot ...... presumably left tackle. And, because left tackle is where the critical NFL shortage is, he fits. His addition to the roster is early enough in the year for team strength & conditioning & dietitians to help him prepare for his come back year as a Seahawk.

    Luke Joeckel may be viewed, by some, as a long shot with a lot to overcome. But, he adds to the program at positions in critical need. This is a real story here that will unfold as the competition begins this summer. Schneider and Carroll believe in their organization and are fearless. Traits that many here at .net could use a booster shot for.


    He would have been the second best lineman last year. The same goes for this year. I'm just curious what their plan is for rt. I don't think they believe Gilliam is tough enough.
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  • Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE. Ohh, and he sees him playing L tackle and optional to use at L guard.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.
    Last edited by Seymour on Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Luke Joeckel picked the right place and time to reboot his career. :2thumbs: Enjoy the Show!
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  • Seymour wrote:Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.

    That is how Pete always is. What do you want him to say "Well he kinda sucks but there weren't many options out there"
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  • iigakusei wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.

    That is how Pete always is. What do you want him to say "Well he kinda sucks but there weren't many options out there"


    Once again. I'll trust our leadership you know, the same ones that have us actually credible after 4 decades.
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  • Seymour wrote:Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE. Ohh, and he sees him playing L tackle and optional to use at L guard.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.


    When Okung is the highest paid Lt in the game, and guys are signing for 12 mil a season, they may have been lucky to get him. At least there is some potential there. I'm glad they can walk away next year if he doesn't work out though.
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  • iigakusei wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.

    That is how Pete always is. What do you want him to say "Well he kinda sucks but there weren't many options out there"


    Disagree. He often will not be so gung-ho to imply someone will be the starter, and will say we "brought him in to compete and add to the competition". Can't remember his exact words, but I believe he said he is a tier 1 player.
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  • Seymour wrote:Listening to Pete in his interview today....I'm beginning to think Pete is delusional with the Oline. He went on about how lucky we are to get Joeckel, how he hopes to be part of his long term plans, and how great of a talent he was COMING OUT OF COLLEGE. Ohh, and he sees him playing L tackle and optional to use at L guard.

    Good god, who cares what happened 4 years ago, look at his recent past. Many are calling this guy the worst olineman in the NFL, and a 7th rounder REJECT took his job.


    Well, our previous LT had his job taken by an undrafted power forward, so this feels like an improvement.
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  • It's very interesting to me that Carroll did not mention RT as a possible landing spot for Joeckel, who started off as a RT as a rookie and is coming off major knee injuries that could make LT an unrealistic challenge.

    Using Joeckel at RT would also further Ifedi's development by allowing Ifedi to remain inside at RG and sandwiching him between two savvy veterans in Britt and Joeckel. It would also allow them to keep George Fant at the one position he has ever played: LT.

    Moreover, as the 6th linemen, Fant would not have the flexibility to play multiple positions that Gilliam would provide in that role. So you are damned if you do move a player as inexperienced as Fant from LT and damned if you don't, because then Fant is relegated to backng up Joeckel while providing little to no utility at any of the other positions.

    I personally think moving Ifedi to RT would be a mistake, since he still has a ways to go to develop into a consistent pass protector and moving positions tends to stunt the development of second-year linemen. But the absence of any discussion of playing Joeckel at RT, at least at this embryonic stage of the season, says to me that they are considering either 1) not providing Gilliam with sufficient competition at RT and/or 2) forecasting a potentially turbulent move of Ifedi to the outside.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:It's very interesting to me that Carroll did not mention RT as a possible landing spot for Joeckel, who started off as a RT as a rookie and is coming off major knee injuries that could make LT an unrealistic challenge.

    Using Joeckel at RT would also further Ifedi's development by allowing Ifedi to remain inside at RG and sandwiching him between two savvy veterans in Britt and Joeckel. It would also allow them to keep George Fant at the one position he has ever played: LT.

    Moreover, as the 6th linemen, Fant would not have the flexibility to play multiple positions that Gilliam would provide in that role. So you are damned if you do move a player as inexperienced as Fant from LT and damned if you don't, because then Fant is relegated to backng up Joeckel while providing little to no utility at any of the other positions.

    I personally think moving Ifedi to RT would be a mistake, since he still has a ways to go to develop into a consistent pass protector and moving positions tends to stunt the development of second-year linemen. But the absence of any discussion of playing Joeckel at RT, at least at this embryonic stage of the season, says to me that they are considering either 1) not providing Gilliam with sufficient competition at RT and/or 2) forecasting a potentially turbulent move of Ifedi to the outside.


    Great post and I 100% agree. I was thinking R tackle is where he would go myself also, but for some reason Pete made it pretty clear to say Left side only in his comments. Of course we all heard this with Pete on Ifedi also. First he was a tackle, then within 1 week he was a guard.
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  • the only potential in the signing is the potential of our QB and all of our running backs to be injured again ...behind this pitiful joke of an offensive line. Pete must be suffering from dementia.
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  • Pete put at least some measure of him playing LT and sited that (reading between the lines) that we could do better in run blocking and that really affects the play action and waggle/bootleg type of plays. If Joeckel can offer something there like Pete thinks he can then I'm all for it. I honestly haven't put in any tape of anything like that.

    Some might wonder why I keep going on and on and on about the run game and the run/pass ratio and it's really about this:

    Time

    When you play defense you're generally in a "react scenario." Meaning, it's not necessarily a lot of the time when you can just "fire off" at your very specific responsibility. When you're in the secondary, you read most of the time because you're back far enough where time alots. When you're in the linebacking corps, your reads are kind of completely up in the air in terms of the importance to the run game AND pass game (especially given cover 3 where you don't have many bodies there) and you're also closer to the "core action" or trash, if you will. Even when you're playing DL, you have about .50 seconds to figure out if it's run or pass.

    Granted, this is the majority of plays. Sometimes you get a gift from the DC where you don't have to read, but most of the time you're reading. Or it's a pure passing situation where you don't have to read. Either way, it's a gift in the mind of the defender. Dogs racing to get that bone, so to speak.

    Back to Joeckel, if he can give us a more physical presence in the run game, it will affect the passing game in turn...
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  • Well one thing for sure. If he cannot beat out a power forward then you can officially put a fork in him. He's done.
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  • Fant's job seems to be safe.

    A lot was talked about Joeckel's issues dealing with power at left tackle and how he needed to get stronger. Watching Friday night though, it didn't seem like actual strength was Joeckel's issue. He held up fine, and overall wasn't noticeable. As a guard, if you're not noticeable, that's generally always a good thing because it means you likely didn't make any big mistakes. When Joeckel switched to left tackle late in the game however, there was a shocking contrast from his play at guard. Immediately rookie fifth-round pick Tyrone Holmes put him on roller skates, getting into his body on a bull rush. A few plays later Joeckel was absolutely embarrassed by Bjoern Werner, who by all accounts has no shot whatsoever to make the Jaguars roster because he's been so bad.

    All of Joeckel's previous issues manifested themselves when he moved back to left tackle and had to play in space. He got beat right away with power, then got caught thinking and was beaten around the edge with speed. It was night and day from being noticeable to sticking out like a sore thumb.
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  • I'd be meh on this if they spent 1 mil. At 7 this is downright drunk GM territory. Combined with doing it before knowing if another 2 or so mil would get you Lang.
    My new theory is we are under the curse of Hutchinson ever since the silly transition tag. How else can I explain a good org sabotaging themselves at one position?
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  • hawk45 wrote:I'd be meh on this if they spent 1 mil. At 7 this is downright drunk GM territory. Combined with doing it before knowing if another 2 or so mil would get you Lang.
    My new theory is we are under the curse of Hutchinson ever since the silly transition tag. How else can I explain a good org sabotaging themselves at one position?


    Purely from money perspective, we still could stretch and get Lang even after overpaying Joeckel. Besides, Joeckel was somewhat adequate as guard, not as tackle. There must be something else going on. I for one am prepared to give Pete the benefit of the doubt.

    WIth Joeckel, I could smell Cable's influence all over. Not sure what's the deal with Tom Cable, he seems to enjoy rebuilding failed linemen. It's like for next month's Mustang track meet, instead of getting a new 500hps new Mustang with IRS and electronic handling aids, Cable prefers get a '71 and do huge amount of work.
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  • toffee wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:I'd be meh on this if they spent 1 mil. At 7 this is downright drunk GM territory. Combined with doing it before knowing if another 2 or so mil would get you Lang.
    My new theory is we are under the curse of Hutchinson ever since the silly transition tag. How else can I explain a good org sabotaging themselves at one position?


    Purely from money perspective, we still could stretch and get Lang even after overpaying Joeckel. Besides, Joeckel was somewhat adequate as guard, not as tackle. There must be something else going on. I for one am prepared to give Pete the benefit of the doubt.

    WIth Joeckel, I could smell Cable's influence all over. Not sure what's the deal with Tom Cable, he seems to enjoy rebuilding failed linemen. It's like for next month's Mustang track meet, instead of getting a new 500hps new Mustang with IRS and electronic handling aids, Cable prefers get a '71 and do huge amount of work.


    Quite true...the problem is I don't think he's rebuilt a "failed" lineman. He has a great hand in causing lineman to fail tremendously though. If Joeckel doesn't pan out, he has an excuse that Joeckel was subpar to begin with. If the Seahawks want change on OL, they need to move away from Cable.
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  • What does cable have on Pete then that could cause him to spend a first rounder on Carpenter and 7 mil on a Joeckel?

    I cannot believe there was another NFL team lining up to offer 7.

    And if there was that is the perfect example of when you let the guy walk. Joeckel was both injured and terrible. He makes Okung and Clady look like Walter Jones (I'd kill for Okung right now).
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  • Joeckel's career path parallels Robert Gallery. Which is not a good thing.
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  • http://threestepdrop.com/2017/03/19/a-look-at-the-film/

    Joeckel may be the best OL the Hawks have. We'll see.
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  • Seafan wrote:http://threestepdrop.com/2017/03/19/a-look-at-the-film/

    Joeckel may be the best OL the Hawks have. We'll see.


    Good read/video, seems like he may be the LG of the future.

    It's shocking how many passes Bortles missed in 5 minutes of replay.
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  • I don't know if Joeckel will be good or bad. But Okung got something crazy like 11m apy and I'm sure if it was Seattle who handed out that contract people would've been even more upset.

    I think it really is what it is. A 1 year trial run, and Seattle likely overpaid. Seattle may be taking into account that they could get a comp pick next year but I doubt that was a big point. You can only get 4 comp picks max. It'd require a pretty big year for him to get a 3-4th. In addition, there's 31 other teams handing out a record number of 1 year deals which is really going to dilute the pool next year more than ever. So what got a team a comp pick this year, is a lot less likely to get an equivalent pick next year.
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  • mistaowen wrote:
    Seafan wrote:http://threestepdrop.com/2017/03/19/a-look-at-the-film/

    Joeckel may be the best OL the Hawks have. We'll see.


    Good read/video, seems like he may be the LG of the future.

    It's shocking how many passes Bortles missed in 5 minutes of replay.


    Guard, yes. When healthy, he could just that guard we need.
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  • I ran into some further explanation on why there may be a connection between Cable and Joeckel, specifically Texas A&M that I haven't seen posted here.
    Yes, I've been a critic of this move because of the baggage attached, but hopefully this is something that will help his transition here.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/10/14875360/seattle-seahawks-nfl-free-agency-2017-luke-joeckel-tom-cable-texas-am-tamu-zone-blocking-zbs

    Some college teams run out of the spread all the time, but Schofield specifically credits the use of combo blocks and arcing, split zone designs with backside actions that look notably familiar to an eye used to watching the Seahawks rushing game in action. It’s easy to recognize why Cable might value players tutored in these run concepts before joining the professional ranks......
    Joeckel original draft profile also matches the hyper-explosive model Cable and Schneider have sought in linemen. But in this case Joeckel’s background in the Texas A&M-Jim Turner zone concepts—in a year when there are fewer trusted tackles or guards coming out of college—perhaps helped all the pieces fit together even better.
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  • Seymour wrote:I ran into some further explanation on why there may be a connection between Cable and Joeckel, specifically Texas A&M that I haven't seen posted here.
    Yes, I've been a critic of this move because of the baggage attached, but hopefully this is something that will help his transition here.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/10/14875360/seattle-seahawks-nfl-free-agency-2017-luke-joeckel-tom-cable-texas-am-tamu-zone-blocking-zbs

    Some college teams run out of the spread all the time, but Schofield specifically credits the use of combo blocks and arcing, split zone designs with backside actions that look notably familiar to an eye used to watching the Seahawks rushing game in action. It’s easy to recognize why Cable might value players tutored in these run concepts before joining the professional ranks......
    Joeckel original draft profile also matches the hyper-explosive model Cable and Schneider have sought in linemen. But in this case Joeckel’s background in the Texas A&M-Jim Turner zone concepts—in a year when there are fewer trusted tackles or guards coming out of college—perhaps helped all the pieces fit together even better.


    Huh, weird. Are you saying that maybe they might have their reasons for the decisions that they make and the players that they sign besides "OMG THEY R SO DUMB AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY R DOING AND THEY SUCK AND CABLE IS THE DEVIL FIRE BEVELL!!!" ?
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  • Meh, give the guy a chance.
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  • Chapow wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I ran into some further explanation on why there may be a connection between Cable and Joeckel, specifically Texas A&M that I haven't seen posted here.
    Yes, I've been a critic of this move because of the baggage attached, but hopefully this is something that will help his transition here.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/10/14875360/seattle-seahawks-nfl-free-agency-2017-luke-joeckel-tom-cable-texas-am-tamu-zone-blocking-zbs

    Some college teams run out of the spread all the time, but Schofield specifically credits the use of combo blocks and arcing, split zone designs with backside actions that look notably familiar to an eye used to watching the Seahawks rushing game in action. It’s easy to recognize why Cable might value players tutored in these run concepts before joining the professional ranks......
    Joeckel original draft profile also matches the hyper-explosive model Cable and Schneider have sought in linemen. But in this case Joeckel’s background in the Texas A&M-Jim Turner zone concepts—in a year when there are fewer trusted tackles or guards coming out of college—perhaps helped all the pieces fit together even better.


    Huh, weird. Are you saying that maybe they might have their reasons for the decisions that they make and the players that they sign besides "OMG THEY R SO DUMB AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY R DOING AND THEY SUCK AND CABLE IS THE DEVIL FIRE BEVELL!!!" ?


    Exaggerate much? Move along now.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I ran into some further explanation on why there may be a connection between Cable and Joeckel, specifically Texas A&M that I haven't seen posted here.
    Yes, I've been a critic of this move because of the baggage attached, but hopefully this is something that will help his transition here.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/10/14875360/seattle-seahawks-nfl-free-agency-2017-luke-joeckel-tom-cable-texas-am-tamu-zone-blocking-zbs

    Some college teams run out of the spread all the time, but Schofield specifically credits the use of combo blocks and arcing, split zone designs with backside actions that look notably familiar to an eye used to watching the Seahawks rushing game in action. It’s easy to recognize why Cable might value players tutored in these run concepts before joining the professional ranks......
    Joeckel original draft profile also matches the hyper-explosive model Cable and Schneider have sought in linemen. But in this case Joeckel’s background in the Texas A&M-Jim Turner zone concepts—in a year when there are fewer trusted tackles or guards coming out of college—perhaps helped all the pieces fit together even better.


    Huh, weird. Are you saying that maybe they might have their reasons for the decisions that they make and the players that they sign besides "OMG THEY R SO DUMB AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY R DOING AND THEY SUCK AND CABLE IS THE DEVIL FIRE BEVELL!!!" ?


    Exaggerate much? Move along now.


    Yes, I am obviously exaggerating. Depending on who I'm mocking though, it's not really much of an exaggeration.

    And you can get bent with your move along now comment. I'll move along, or not, when I damn well please, new guy.
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  • Chapow wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I ran into some further explanation on why there may be a connection between Cable and Joeckel, specifically Texas A&M that I haven't seen posted here.
    Yes, I've been a critic of this move because of the baggage attached, but hopefully this is something that will help his transition here.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/10/14875360/seattle-seahawks-nfl-free-agency-2017-luke-joeckel-tom-cable-texas-am-tamu-zone-blocking-zbs

    Some college teams run out of the spread all the time, but Schofield specifically credits the use of combo blocks and arcing, split zone designs with backside actions that look notably familiar to an eye used to watching the Seahawks rushing game in action. It’s easy to recognize why Cable might value players tutored in these run concepts before joining the professional ranks......
    Joeckel original draft profile also matches the hyper-explosive model Cable and Schneider have sought in linemen. But in this case Joeckel’s background in the Texas A&M-Jim Turner zone concepts—in a year when there are fewer trusted tackles or guards coming out of college—perhaps helped all the pieces fit together even better.


    Huh, weird. Are you saying that maybe they might have their reasons for the decisions that they make and the players that they sign besides "OMG THEY R SO DUMB AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY R DOING AND THEY SUCK AND CABLE IS THE DEVIL FIRE BEVELL!!!" ?


    Exaggerate much? Move along now.


    Yes, I am obviously exaggerating. Depending on who I'm mocking though, it's not really much of an exaggeration.

    And you can get bent with your move along now comment. I'll move along, or not, when I damn well please, new guy.


    Trust me. If I was "bent" over your angry and silly comments, I would not say move along now old guy.
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    Seymour
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  • Silly? Sure, some of my comments are silly.

    Angry? No, not at all. Mildly irritated at some of you guys that can't seem to find any reason for any optimism at all that the OL could possibly improve and feel the need to constantly shit on everything the Seahawks do? Yep.
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    Chapow
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  • Chapow wrote:Silly? Sure, some of my comments are silly.

    Angry? No, not at all. Mildly irritated at some of you guys that can't seem to find any reason for any optimism at all that the OL could possibly improve and feel the need to constantly shit on everything the Seahawks do? Yep.


    I just posted a small possible reason for optimism and a well written article on why Cable may like Joeckel (even though myself and others may have doubts), and you pretty much threw that back in my face.

    Pot calling kettle black here, but don't let that slow you down. :3-1:
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    Seymour
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  • I suggest you two take your bed pan filling challenge somewhere out of this thread and let it get back on topic.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
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    chris98251
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  • Someone could not listen and had to have the last word, Locked and don't restart a thread with another pissing contest.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
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    chris98251
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