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Brandon Marshall is in town

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 8:12 am
  • quadsas wrote:
    Sun Tzu wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:I don't see anything in it for Marshall.

    At 34 he's looking for a paycheck or a title. Neither are likely in Seattle this year.

    I don't see much in it for the Seahawks.

    We've been working all off-season to get younger/leaner/faster/hungrier with emphasis on buy-in to the Carroll Plan. Marshall displaces an up-and-coming player with future upside for a stop-gap with no future.

    Well said, this is exactly what I think about a potential Marshall signing.

    For anyone wanting to sign him: Which of the young developing receivers do you cut to make room for Marshall? Whose role is reduced to give Marshall snaps? And, is Marshall the kind of locker room guy who can help the young guys get better?

    I would much rather see what we have in Moore, Darboh, Brown, and Grayson, than spend any resources ($$, roster spot, snap count, coaching) on Marshall.


    So you should never sign a veteran? Thats absolutely stupid. Were not tanking, were still trying to be a playoff team.

    Good morning straw man, argument from omniscience, and appeal to consequences (or, maybe it is an appeal to faith).
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 8:57 am
  • Sun Tzu wrote:For anyone wanting to sign him: Which of the young developing receivers do you cut to make room for Marshall? Whose role is reduced to give Marshall snaps? And, is Marshall the kind of locker room guy who can help the young guys get better?

    This is the wrong way to look at it in the NFL IMO. There's no farm system and we're trying to win this year. If Brandon Marshall wins a spot over any of those "young developing" receivers then they can continue to develop on the practice squad or on another roster. If you're going to carry a receiver on your 53 man roster for the entire year based mainly on their future upside then it better be extremely high and they shouldn't be threatened by competition from a veteran well past his prime.

    There's plenty of time to worry about the 2019 receiver group during the next off-season with another go around on the draft and FA.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 9:36 am
  • AgentDib wrote:
    Sun Tzu wrote:For anyone wanting to sign him: Which of the young developing receivers do you cut to make room for Marshall? Whose role is reduced to give Marshall snaps? And, is Marshall the kind of locker room guy who can help the young guys get better?

    This is the wrong way to look at it in the NFL IMO. There's no farm system and we're trying to win this year. If Brandon Marshall wins a spot over any of those "young developing" receivers then they can continue to develop on the practice squad or on another roster. If you're going to carry a receiver on your 53 man roster for the entire year based mainly on their future upside then it better be extremely high and they shouldn't be threatened by competition from a veteran well past his prime.

    There's plenty of time to worry about the 2019 receiver group during the next off-season with another go around on the draft and FA.


    This makes sense to me, but I don't like the injury issue. We had to much of that last year.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 10:41 am
  • I've never liked Marshall, not even when he was good.

    Now he stinks, gets hurt all the time AND will bring a crappy attitude to the locker room? No thanks.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 7:06 pm
  • AgentDib wrote:
    Sun Tzu wrote:For anyone wanting to sign him: Which of the young developing receivers do you cut to make room for Marshall? Whose role is reduced to give Marshall snaps? And, is Marshall the kind of locker room guy who can help the young guys get better?

    This is the wrong way to look at it in the NFL IMO. There's no farm system and we're trying to win this year. If Brandon Marshall wins a spot over any of those "young developing" receivers then they can continue to develop on the practice squad or on another roster. If you're going to carry a receiver on your 53 man roster for the entire year based mainly on their future upside then it better be extremely high and they shouldn't be threatened by competition from a veteran well past his prime.

    There's plenty of time to worry about the 2019 receiver group during the next off-season with another go around on the draft and FA.

    I disagree.

    Most rookie wide receivers take more than one year to acclimate to the NFL and achieve their potential. If you replace them before they reach their potential with the latest swan-song vet grabbing a final payday before retirement, then you never allow your young guys to develop.

    I'm not against signing veterans, when they have potential to stick around for a few years. But I think it's a complete waste of time to bring in a one-and-done sort of guy at the expense of a player who could be good for years.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 7:56 pm
  • Marshall or McEvoy? If you could only have one.

    Good camp battle.

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 8:33 pm
  • The FO is rolling over rocks,..

    Somehow I doubt present day Marshall appreciates his real value. He still could be a positive addition to the team but the price would need to be right. He’s unlikely to be signed as he would have to accept he’d be a bit player in our scheme. He could still be a valuable addition, but somehow I doubt he gets signed here and we’d be unlikely to meet his financial expectations.

    A couple of seasons ago for sure, instead of Graham, at a lesser cost w/o the draft pick loss.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Thu May 10, 2018 11:34 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:Most rookie wide receivers take more than one year to acclimate to the NFL and achieve their potential. If you replace them before they reach their potential with the latest swan-song vet grabbing a final payday before retirement, then you never allow your young guys to develop.

    We can develop guys like Grayson, McEvoy and Moore on the practice squad. None of them are rookies anymore or are even under contract with us in 2019 so I don't see how it makes sense to take a long view on any of them. Spending valuable 53 man roster spots to develop youth just in time for them to hit FA and sign with other teams is the mistake we have made with our OL over the last five seasons.

    I was alright with red shirting Darboh last year partly for the reason that you mentioned but mostly because I didn't think we had a better option. Given the razor thin margin of a few of our losses last year, we would have had a decent shot at making the playoffs if we had a veteran instead who could have contributed more. The story is also much different for Darboh as a former third round pick with three years left on his deal than it is for a camp body or UDFA on a single year contract.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 11, 2018 11:12 am
  • Bringing in a vet is fine, even just for short term help, problem here is Brandon, he look pretty bad last season. He will only be a year older now, and unlike to improve.


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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 11, 2018 7:26 pm
  • AgentDib wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:Most rookie wide receivers take more than one year to acclimate to the NFL and achieve their potential. If you replace them before they reach their potential with the latest swan-song vet grabbing a final payday before retirement, then you never allow your young guys to develop.

    We can develop guys like Grayson, McEvoy and Moore on the practice squad. None of them are rookies anymore or are even under contract with us in 2019 so I don't see how it makes sense to take a long view on any of them. Spending valuable 53 man roster spots to develop youth just in time for them to hit FA and sign with other teams is the mistake we have made with our OL over the last five seasons.

    I was alright with red shirting Darboh last year partly for the reason that you mentioned but mostly because I didn't think we had a better option. Given the razor thin margin of a few of our losses last year, we would have had a decent shot at making the playoffs if we had a veteran instead who could have contributed more. The story is also much different for Darboh as a former third round pick with three years left on his deal than it is for a camp body or UDFA on a single year contract.

    You can only develop guys on the practice squad if no other team signs them. Last year Moore was moved from the practice squad to the active roster to protect him. I think, and the coaches seem to agree, he has serious potential. Every player should be evaluated on expected future performance. Past performance is only important in so much as it predicts future performance, and past performance is only an indicator of future performance to a certain point. For every athlete, the time comes when the decline becomes steep enough that past performance is no longer a valid indicator of future performance. Many fans get caught up in the allure of known names well beyond the point at which the known name can continue to perform up to or even close to their previous level. Valuing past performance and known names over expected future performance is a surefire way to tank a winning franchise or derail a reloading/rebuilding franchise.

    And, spending a valuable 53 man roster spot to develop youth is a much better use of the roster spot, particularly in a "reload" year, than wasting it on a well past his prime vet with a less than stellar history as a teammate just looking for a final paycheck.

    If Marshall is signed, I would not be surprised if the sole purpose of the signing is to generate competition in the preseason and then cut him prior to the regular season.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 11, 2018 8:46 pm
  • Sun Tzu wrote:I think, and the coaches seem to agree... [Moore]... has serious potential.

    I certainly hope he does as Moore playing great for us in 2018 would be a needed boost to our receiving corps. My only point is that carrying him around because he might be good in 2019 doesn't make any sense as he isn't under contract to us then, and you correctly note that other teams can sign our promising players if they aren't under contract.

    Of course I agree with you on future performance, but I don't think anybody is suggesting Brandon Marshall should be awarded a spot based on his past accomplishments. If the Hawks think he could provide good competition in training camp then that's what matters, and if through that competition he wins a spot then we're better off for including him. If he loses the spot but plays well and lights a fire under Darboh then we're also better off for including him.

    Overall, I love the optimism around our young receivers and I'm not trying to bash them too hard, but I just can't fully go along with it. Every NFL team has a surplus of young raw receivers this time of year that the fan base gets excited about and most end up out of the league or on a practice squad. It could very well be that a key 2019 receiver for us is a guy like Steven Dunbar who ends up on the 49ers practice squad until we sign him in September and replace a guy that we spent the entire training camp developing.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 11, 2018 10:29 pm
  • Young receivers usually have two big issues, route running and being able to get off the line clean, both take technique and discipline. All these guys can catch when not in traffic or they would not even make camp, it's when they have to separate and fight for a contested ball using their hands and position many fall short as well. Body catchers have a hard time adjusting the talent level is so close they can't just physically dominate like they did in college.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sat May 12, 2018 6:21 am
  • None of our young practice squad guys (or even McEvoy) will ever get to the levels Marshall has reached. The only question is can Marshall pull it together now to be a situational red zone player, coming in for 12-15 plays a game and produce results -- or at least loosen up the secondary to allow other guys to get open.

    I'd say he's worth a look if the price is right.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sat May 12, 2018 7:05 am
  • No to these one year prove it deals. They don’t work out
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sat May 12, 2018 11:48 am
  • NJlargent wrote:No to these one year prove it deals. They don’t work out

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sat May 12, 2018 6:31 pm
  • I’ve been watching the news feeds, anywhere and everywhere to see what came of this meeting. I like Brandon Marshall, a lot, as a player and as a person. The guy has had some serious battles to fight in his life that kept him from being his best on the field.

    I really think that if his healed up from his injury, that there is no doubt he would be a play maker for us. Brandon was one of the few guys in the NFL that gave Sherman his moneys worth, trying to cover. That would be something to see when we go up against the 49'rs this year and we have Marshall, Lockett, and Baldwin putting their moves on Richard.

    I don't really take any satisfaction in Richard being exposed as a has been, in 2018, but my radar is up on him and I think we didn't get the full skinny on his medical progress and prognosis from our team doctors, in regards to Sherm's Achilles job. I would think that if it were a positive one, that John and Pete would have kept him around, no matter his attitude and all that noise.

    In any event, getting back to Brandon. I think if there is anywhere in the NFL that he would be happy, we are the team and the fan base he needs right now. I'm of the mind that all of us up here in the Pacific Northwest are a few cards short of a full deck, that is what makes life here so damn great, I think we all know it and all accept it in each other, it makes for acme pretty unique characters around us. You won't find the heart and soul you find here, anywhere else in the world. The 12 rock and our players all greatly appreciate it, especially those that played elsewhere in the NFL before coming here.


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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm
  • The "spirit may be willing....but the flesh is weak". I doubt that he can make it out of TC and onto the 53 man roster.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sun May 13, 2018 6:19 am
  • We must have low balled him. I wouldn't mind Decker either.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sun May 13, 2018 2:02 pm
  • King Dog wrote:We must have low balled him. I wouldn't mind Decker either.

    If we did lowball him it was the right move.

    As I said previously, there's nothing in this for either Marshall or the Seahawks. The only way that changes is of Marhshall goes to his local Psychic and finds out the Seahawks are destined to win the Super Bowl this year, and signs for a single peanut in order to get a ring. That was never going to happen.

    Oh and for those bemoaning the red zone target thing, what we need to fix the red zone is a bulldozing run game. Added blocking tight ends. Added blocking fullback. Added RB who tends to end the play with his head in the proper direction.

    The biggest problem with Jimmy Graham was we were lining up in a set from which we could run or pass, except the combination of Graham and the block-by-falling-down technique meant we couldn't run. We had to pass and the opposition knew it.

    We will replace Graham's red-zone output with the running game.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sun May 13, 2018 4:19 pm
  • King Dog wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:No to these one year prove it deals. They don’t work out

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Sun May 13, 2018 7:28 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    King Dog wrote:We must have low balled him. I wouldn't mind Decker either.

    If we did lowball him it was the right move.

    As I said previously, there's nothing in this for either Marshall or the Seahawks. The only way that changes is of Marhshall goes to his local Psychic and finds out the Seahawks are destined to win the Super Bowl this year, and signs for a single peanut in order to get a ring. That was never going to happen.

    Oh and for those bemoaning the red zone target thing, what we need to fix the red zone is a bulldozing run game. Added blocking tight ends. Added blocking fullback. Added RB who tends to end the play with his head in the proper direction.

    The biggest problem with Jimmy Graham was we were lining up in a set from which we could run or pass, except the combination of Graham and the block-by-falling-down technique meant we couldn't run. We had to pass and the opposition knew it.

    We will replace Graham's red-zone output with the running game.


    What I see missing here is all those goal line scoring opportunities inside the 5 yard line may be turned into touchdowns running the ball now and not so dependent on a post up or fade route becasue we may actually move the defense backwards.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 4:15 am
  • NJlargent wrote:No to these one year prove it deals. They don’t work out


    With the greatest of respect, this is a ridiculous comment.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 7:17 am
  • One year prove it deals don't work? :34853_doh:
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 7:23 am
  • If Brandon Marshall came at the right price I would be down for having him compete in training camp. He would be a good situational receiver, and red zone threat. He could be like a Joe Juravicious figure. He could also be good in three receiver sets. Have him line up on the outside, and move Baldwin in where he is best at slot during key situations.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 7:28 am
  • KiwiHawk wrote:I don't see anything in it for Marshall.

    At 34 he's looking for a paycheck or a title. Neither are likely in Seattle this year.

    I don't see much in it for the Seahawks.

    We've been working all off-season to get younger/leaner/faster/hungrier with emphasis on buy-in to the Carroll Plan. Marshall displaces an up-and-coming player with future upside for a stop-gap with no future.


    Carroll Plan? You've never heard of the Marshall Plan? Once again, the Yanks need to help out Europe.
    The Hawks will sign him, and then after the London game, release him/reassign him to NFL Europe.

    Seriously, Marshall is the only big-time athlete I am aware of that has come out publicly as having Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). I've written here before that Percy Harvin's history and behavior checked ALL the boxes and then some for BPD, That is where Pete got his "education" in this area. So, whatever else, Pete and John will be making an educated decision, and will know how to have the right conversations. Historically, when a person with BPD goes to a new "tribe", they will put their best foot forward for a period of time. So I would expect Marshall to ball out (or die trying) if the Hawks do sign him and he has anything left in the tank. (Open question on the tank) I have total respect for Brandon Marshall as a person for doing what he's done, and the courage that takes.

    There is definitely the potential for Marshall to thrive here, but a one year rental is the most likely success scenario. If Marshall makes it, will he displace a potential up-and-coming? I will trust Pete and John's judgment on that one. NFL WR is one of the more difficult positions for a young player to pick up and play at a high level. Do we have any young WRs on the cusp of stardom? Will he be a good mentor for a guy like Amara Darboh? Maybe even for this Stringfellow guy?

    At this point, I will refer further questions to my agent. AgentDib ForTheWin.

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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 7:40 am
  • I wonder if the Hawks have interest in Dez and are trying to put some pressure on him to take less by bringing in Marshall..
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 12:29 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    hawks85 wrote:Pass. Not interested. Past his prime.


    This ^^^

    We have a bad record with has been WR's and Marshall will not get enough separation for Russell to "take the chance" squeezing into tight windows. Fail waiting to happen IMO.


    Agreed. And Dez Bryant is a cancer, the ultimate diva. If the hawks are trying to create a new locker room dynamic, Dez isn't a guy I want in there.
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Mon May 14, 2018 5:35 pm
  • HawkerD wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawks85 wrote:Pass. Not interested. Past his prime.


    This ^^^

    We have a bad record with has been WR's and Marshall will not get enough separation for Russell to "take the chance" squeezing into tight windows. Fail waiting to happen IMO.


    Agreed. And Dez Bryant is a cancer, the ultimate diva. If the hawks are trying to create a new locker room dynamic, Dez isn't a guy I want in there.
    would having both Brandon and Dez sort of balance each other out?


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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Tue May 15, 2018 1:14 am
  • toffee wrote:
    HawkerD wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawks85 wrote:Pass. Not interested. Past his prime.


    This ^^^

    We have a bad record with has been WR's and Marshall will not get enough separation for Russell to "take the chance" squeezing into tight windows. Fail waiting to happen IMO.


    Agreed. And Dez Bryant is a cancer, the ultimate diva. If the hawks are trying to create a new locker room dynamic, Dez isn't a guy I want in there.
    would having both Brandon and Dez sort of balance each other out?


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    You'd need a third guy for that really.

    May I recommend Percy Harvin?
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 18, 2018 7:19 pm
  • original poster wrote:
    toffee wrote:
    HawkerD wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    This ^^^

    We have a bad record with has been WR's and Marshall will not get enough separation for Russell to "take the chance" squeezing into tight windows. Fail waiting to happen IMO.


    Agreed. And Dez Bryant is a cancer, the ultimate diva. If the hawks are trying to create a new locker room dynamic, Dez isn't a guy I want in there.
    would having both Brandon and Dez sort of balance each other out?


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    You'd need a third guy for that really.

    May I recommend Percy Harvin?


    Since Y'all asked...

    Nice idea about Percy, but that would throw things totally out of balance.

    By Googling comments about Dez, the content consensus associates him more with the term "Narcissist". So, for a thought experiment only, let us assume he either has been secretly diagnosed NPD, or has all the traits and has evaded any situation that woudl result in a diagnosis, and secretly is NPD. Thought experiment only!!

    Borderline + Borderline = Too much drama and blaming others and victim behavior and language to even think about.
    Narcissist + Narcissist = It can work if the egos fit together and the team is winning, or it can come unglued in finger pointing and "my poop doesn't stink" if either one is at risk of appearing to have flaws in their performance.
    Borderline + Suspected Borderline + Narcissist = A hot mess, chaos, unpredictable results, probably mostly bad.

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    So, THE ANSWER: YES, we could get Dez AND Marshall, and they would do just fine together for a one-season rental. Past that, all bets are off, get rid of at least one.

    Now all I need is the 5 cent advice sign graphic to post here. Anybody?

    And all the above is simply about the RELATIONSHIPs, not whether Dez or Marshall have anything left as football players. I'll leave that to Pete...
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Re: Brandon Marshall is in town
Fri May 18, 2018 9:53 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:I wonder if the Hawks have interest in Dez and are trying to put some pressure on him to take less by bringing in Marshall..

    I thought the whole reason on getting rid of Sherm and MB were to lose the guys with the “bad attitudes”?
    Just say no to one of the biggest “Me”’players in the league who has problems running routes, and catching the football.
    There is a reason the mental midget that is Dez Bryant isn’t signed and it’s not because he is mulling offers from multiple teams.

    Want to watch a game for a reason NOT to sign Dez. Go watch the Hawks vs Jerruh’s kids game last X-mas eve.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

    I SO do not care about your fantasy team and who's on it!
    Sports Hernia
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 23657
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:36 pm
    Location: The pit


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