Draft assessment

[SoulfishHawk]

This ^^^^^

 

[Maelstrom787]

Your posts reek of hyperbole, half-truths, and strawmen, which is exactly what everyone is telling you.

By the way, Mayowa did make the pass rush better, and Irvin probably would have from SAM if he hadn't gotten injured early. Don't misrepresent the facts. You think 1 pressure a game cripples an offense, so how about Mayowa's six sacks on 50% snaps played? Yet another hole in your logic.

Eh, you think the #3 receiver is absolutely critical for NFL success. Its all good. Regardless of all our squabblings, we all know how the season is destined to end. Another early playoff exit IF they even make it. At least we can all agree on that.

It's a pretty necessary piece to go far into the postseason, bud. You're just arguing to argue. You know you're wrong, and you've got nothing to refute it.

Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season, but you keep believing in everything the team does and thinking things are going to change bud.

Yeah. They're both better than David Moore, but still. The point is that David Moore is gone, along with a few other receiving options.

David Moore already could've stood to be upgraded, and now they don't even have him. You arguing that David Moore was sufficient proves the point, because he's no longer on the roster. That's what we call a "need."

It was an obvious need, and you're arguing against it for no reason other than that you simply cannot and will not approve of any move the front office makes, whether its necessary or not.

You love Russ so much and want him to succeed so much that you're actually arguing that Freddie Swain at WR3 and nothing behind him was adequate. You're twisting about like a pretzel to be pissed off about this.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season

Except David Moore is now on the Panthers. Philip Dorsett is on the Jaguars, Greg Olsen is retired and Josh Gordon has been released. Do you honestly believe that our WR room was in good shape prior to the draft?

No, but I think it could have been easily replenished with cheap free agents instead of using one of the 3 drafts picks they had. Its the least important position on offense.

 

[pittpnthrs]

No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.

Your out of touch if your being that optimistic. I'm not suggesting a Super Bowl appearance every season, but there has to be signs of improvement at some point for people to think like you. Its been 6 years now and the team can barely get out of the 1st round. Its a Pete Carroll issue. He is a bad gameday coach and gets outcoached horribly in the post season. There was no better example than last year against the Rams. He openly admitted that he didnt understand how his gameplan didnt work although it was the same exact gameplan he used just 2 weeks prior. Thats downright embarrassing. McVay had no issue changing his gameplan thus winning with a 4 fingered QB and his best defensive player playing at about 50%. So that is what the team has to overcome along with the actual opponent on the other side. Sorry, I cant get optimistic about that. Especially when Carroll is actually getting worse.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Eh, you think the #3 receiver is absolutely critical for NFL success. Its all good. Regardless of all our squabblings, we all know how the season is destined to end. Another early playoff exit IF they even make it. At least we can all agree on that.

It's a pretty necessary piece to go far into the postseason, bud. You're just arguing to argue. You know you're wrong, and you've got nothing to refute it.

Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season, but you keep believing in everything the team does and thinking things are going to change bud.

Yeah. They're both better than David Moore, but still. The point is that David Moore is gone, along with a few other receiving options.

David Moore already could've stood to be upgraded, and now they don't even have him. You arguing that David Moore was sufficient proves the point, because he's no longer on the roster. That's what we call a "need."

It was an obvious need, and you're arguing against it for no reason other than that you simply cannot and will not approve of any move the front office makes, whether its necessary or not.

You love Russ so much and want him to succeed so much that you're actually arguing that Freddie Swain at WR3 and nothing behind him was adequate. You're twisting about like a pretzel to be pissed off about this.

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

 

[hoxrox]

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

 

[Nunya]

No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.

Your out of touch if your being that optimistic. I'm not suggesting a Super Bowl appearance every season, but there has to be signs of improvement at some point for people to think like you. Its been 6 years now and the team can barely get out of the 1st round. Its a Pete Carroll issue. He is a bad gameday coach and gets outcoached horribly in the post season. There was no better example than last year against the Rams. He openly admitted that he didnt understand how his gameplan didnt work although it was the same exact gameplan he used just 2 weeks prior. Thats downright embarrassing. McVay had no issue changing his gameplan thus winning with a 4 fingered QB and his best defensive player playing at about 50%. So that is what the team has to overcome along with the actual opponent on the other side. Sorry, I cant get optimistic about that. Especially when Carroll is actually getting worse.

Speaking of out of touch, that post was about as out of touch to the realism of football as one can get.

I agree to extent that a team's goal should be to improve, but not in the sense you describe. There are 12 teams that have never won the SB, and 4 teams that have never even been to the SB. That is how competitive it is. There likely isn't anybody that is involved in Professional football that would agree with your assessment that PC is a bad game day coach.....and his record proves that is not the case. And anybody that believes a professional coach can be a great regular season coach but a poor playoff coach doesn't know their arse from a banjo when it comes to football. Sorry, but your viewpoint is misguided and unrealistic.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Legit 3rd WR means 1st and 2nd don't both get double-teamed, in addition to him being a legit threat himself. Doesn't take an X's and O's guy to understand that makes a difference.

Fast defensive players cover 40 yards in around 4.5 seconds. Half a second in average QB release time means 4.44 yards of defensive player travel time. Wilson was half a second slower on average release than Goff, which means Waldron's offense should reduce Wilson's time-to-throw, which potentially buys him 4.44 yards of separation between him and defensive players, which equates to fewer QB hits. That means shorter, quicker routes and more emphasis in YAC. Pretty easy to understand why we need a YAC guy.

Fielding proper speed everywhere creates match-up problems for the opposition. While we will have short routes for Wilson to dump the ball early, we will also have guys on deeper routes for when the OL is doing a good job. With Eck, we have 4 WRs who are 4.46 or faster, 3 of whom are sub-4.4. The implications should be easy to understand.

Lockett is a tough receiver. Metcalf is a tank. Either could be injured on any given play. A legit #3 WR means a legit #2 WR if we need him to be that. Also should be easy to understand that.

Legit KR/PR means we don't have our starting cornerback returning kicks and punts. Pretty easy to understand the implications there, as well, I would think.

All in all, I don't see what is difficult to understand about the necessity of a 3rd WR, particularly one who excels in kick/punt returns.

 

[Nunya]

Legit 3rd WR means 1st and 2nd don't both get double-teamed, in addition to him being a legit threat himself. Doesn't take an X's and O's guy to understand that makes a difference.

Fast defensive players cover 40 yards in around 4.5 seconds. Half a second in average QB release time means 4.44 yards of defensive player travel time. Wilson was half a second slower on average release than Goff, which means Waldron's offense should reduce Wilson's time-to-throw, which potentially buys him 4.44 yards of separation between him and defensive players, which equates to fewer QB hits. That means shorter, quicker routes and more emphasis in YAC. Pretty easy to understand why we need a YAC guy.

Fielding proper speed everywhere creates match-up problems for the opposition. While we will have short routes for Wilson to dump the ball early, we will also have guys on deeper routes for when the OL is doing a good job. With Eck, we have 4 WRs who are 4.46 or faster, 3 of whom are sub-4.4. The implications should be easy to understand.

Lockett is a tough receiver. Metcalf is a tank. Either could be injured on any given play. A legit #3 WR means a legit #2 WR if we need him to be that. Also should be easy to understand that.

Legit KR/PR means we don't have our starting cornerback returning kicks and punts. Pretty easy to understand the implications there, as well, I would think.

All in all, I don't see what is difficult to understand about the necessity of a 3rd WR, particularly one who excels in kick/punt returns.

When a team can only field 11 players at a time, I absolutely can not understand anybody claiming that one of those 11 positions are of minor importance.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Legit 3rd WR means 1st and 2nd don't both get double-teamed, in addition to him being a legit threat himself. Doesn't take an X's and O's guy to understand that makes a difference.

Fast defensive players cover 40 yards in around 4.5 seconds. Half a second in average QB release time means 4.44 yards of defensive player travel time. Wilson was half a second slower on average release than Goff, which means Waldron's offense should reduce Wilson's time-to-throw, which potentially buys him 4.44 yards of separation between him and defensive players, which equates to fewer QB hits. That means shorter, quicker routes and more emphasis in YAC. Pretty easy to understand why we need a YAC guy.

Fielding proper speed everywhere creates match-up problems for the opposition. While we will have short routes for Wilson to dump the ball early, we will also have guys on deeper routes for when the OL is doing a good job. With Eck, we have 4 WRs who are 4.46 or faster, 3 of whom are sub-4.4. The implications should be easy to understand.

Lockett is a tough receiver. Metcalf is a tank. Either could be injured on any given play. A legit #3 WR means a legit #2 WR if we need him to be that. Also should be easy to understand that.

Legit KR/PR means we don't have our starting cornerback returning kicks and punts. Pretty easy to understand the implications there, as well, I would think.

All in all, I don't see what is difficult to understand about the necessity of a 3rd WR, particularly one who excels in kick/punt returns.

When a team can only field 11 players at a time, I absolutely can not understand anybody claiming that one of those 11 positions are of minor importance.

Especially with 11 personnel being run, what, like 70% of snaps? I can't imagine anyone would just be fine trotting out a replacement-level receiver at 3 with no depth behind him if the goal is to go far in the playoffs on the arm of your star quarterback. Ludicrous.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.

 

[pittpnthrs]

No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.

Your out of touch if your being that optimistic. I'm not suggesting a Super Bowl appearance every season, but there has to be signs of improvement at some point for people to think like you. Its been 6 years now and the team can barely get out of the 1st round. Its a Pete Carroll issue. He is a bad gameday coach and gets outcoached horribly in the post season. There was no better example than last year against the Rams. He openly admitted that he didnt understand how his gameplan didnt work although it was the same exact gameplan he used just 2 weeks prior. Thats downright embarrassing. McVay had no issue changing his gameplan thus winning with a 4 fingered QB and his best defensive player playing at about 50%. So that is what the team has to overcome along with the actual opponent on the other side. Sorry, I cant get optimistic about that. Especially when Carroll is actually getting worse.

Speaking of out of touch, that post was about as out of touch to the realism of football as one can get.

I agree to extent that a team's goal should be to improve, but not in the sense you describe. There are 12 teams that have never won the SB, and 4 teams that have never even been to the SB. That is how competitive it is. There likely isn't anybody that is involved in Professional football that would agree with your assessment that PC is a bad game day coach.....and his record proves that is not the case. And anybody that believes a professional coach can be a great regular season coach but a poor playoff coach doesn't know their arse from a banjo when it comes to football. Sorry, but your viewpoint is misguided and unrealistic.

Lol. Your homer bias doesnt allow you to see whats right in front of you. First, Russell Wilson has hidden Carrolls incompetence for so long now that i'm almost at the point that I want him to leave just so fans like you will finally realize what I and others are talking about. Pete has a sub .500 record in the NFL without Wilson. Secondly, Carroll and the Seahawks roll in the regular season because they get to play plenty of inferior teams. Take last season for instance. How many teams above .500 did Seattle beat? Once the playoffs roll around and the talent level averages out, Seattle has a coach that plays checkers while the other teams have coaches playing chess (and again, its getting worse). Its a seasonal cycle now with Pete at the helm. Be ready for more of it.

 

[chris98251]

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.

They did, Waldron, if they run his offense, 2 and 3 seconds and firing the ball opening up the deeper plays that take longer along with a run game.

The question really is can Russell drop and fire underneath to guys throwing them open or will he be allowed to.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.

If Wilson didn't have time to throw the ball, he wouldn't have a constant 3 second time to throw metric.

Regardless, I'd say acquiring one of the better pass blocking guards in the league and hiring an OC that is a disciple of a guy who utilizes a scheme that's much easier to block for fits the bill of giving him more time.

Still, he had time to throw this past year. He's probably gonna have even more this year, but he shouldn't need it, because the ball will be coming out faster.

You can blow your wad on an all-pro offensive line, and they'll still never be the best in the league if they have to block a million straight dropbacks in which the ball is held too long.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.

Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.

Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.

They did, Waldron, if they run his offense, 2 and 3 seconds and firing the ball opening up the deeper plays that take longer along with a run game.

The question really is can Russell drop and fire underneath to guys throwing them open or will he be allowed to.

Oh yes, the Waldron factor and his offense thats going to save Russ from getting killed as usual. The big question is how long will he be allowed to run it before Pete takes over? A lot of confidence around here for a new OC thats never been an OC before.

Just read an article a day or two ago that Waldron wants to run from under center more often than the shotgun. I'm sure that will work out just fine.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.

Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.

They did, Waldron, if they run his offense, 2 and 3 seconds and firing the ball opening up the deeper plays that take longer along with a run game.

The question really is can Russell drop and fire underneath to guys throwing them open or will he be allowed to.

Oh yes, the Waldron factor and his offense thats going to save Russ from getting killed as usual. The big question is how long will he be allowed to run it before Pete takes over? A lot of confidence around here for a new OC thats never been an OC before.

Just read an article a day or two ago that Waldron wants to run from under center more often than the shotgun. I'm sure that will work out just fine.

Pete would be negligent not to do anything after a rash of turnovers and the passing offense being stifled. Chains need to move somehow.

That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.

The catch-all "meddling" crap is infantile and largely erroneous.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.

Wonder how when the #3 receiver spot was so bad?

 

[Maelstrom787]

That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.

Wonder how when the #3 receiver spot was so bad?

Speaking about frequency, not efficiency.

Perhaps the efficiency wouldn't have been horrible (for Russ standards) with a better tertiary option, hmm?

 

[pittpnthrs]

That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.

Wonder how when the #3 receiver spot was so bad?

Speaking about frequency, not efficiency.

Perhaps the efficiency wouldn't have been horrible (for Russ standards) with a better tertiary option, hmm?

Russ has had other seasons with comparable attempts and numbers without some so called stud 3rd receiver. Hmmm.