Fire Pete

[OrangeGravy]

Kind of like Signal-to-Noise ratio, the Football-to-Pissing ratio got out-of-whack there for a bit. Some thoughtful points being made for sure amidst all the pissing.

CONSENSUS
* Pete+John team is a terrific roster-builder and roster-improver during the season

* The Hawks D has made amazing strides during the season and now is an "above average" NFL defense
- This is a massive improvement from being an all-time historically bad defense the first half of the season

* We finally got over the Rams hurdle by actually outplaying and outcoaching them when it mattered
- Few expected this and it was an exceedingly pleasant surprise, and bodes well going forward.

UNCLEAR
* Pete's teams underperform in the playoffs -- disputed
- Maybe the most accurate thing we could say is that Pete's teams don't overperform in the playoffs--well, except for that one SB48 game.

* Pete will get outcoached in the playoffs once again, we'll be disappointed once again
- Perhaps the real issue was we had too many weak links at playoff time before, which got exploited by quality opponents? Maybe the accurate view is Pete's teams overperform the roster in the regular season, and get exposed in the playoffs? Last year it was anemic pass rush, no healthy RBs, among others

* KNJ is the worst DC in the league and gets badly exposed by quality opponents.
- The defense's turnaround and KNJ's role in that?? Anybody's guess. Probably multiple factors.
- Jamal Adams and Carlos Dunlap impact, emergence of Jordyn Brooks, DJ Reed, JReed, LJ Collier,
- Maybe Norton sucks less when the players are better and can execute what he calls?
- Disclaimer: I was a fence-sitter on "Fire KNJ!". Amazed and hoping he and the D don't go back to sucking.

This season, and this roster, and the team dynamic, FEELS different than past seasons. It feels like we have a solid across-the-board roster on both offense and defense. We have probably the best O-Line during Carroll's tenure. We have Russell, and he seems healthy. We have healthy playmakers at all skill positions. We have a pass rush. We have corners who can cover. We have a defense that is suddenly playing well together, and improving week-to-week.

To me, it feels like this year, we are entering the post-season EXPECTING to win, because of our collective strengths, rather than HOPING to win, despite our glaring weaknesses.

I agree with that assessment of the team the last couple years compared to this year. It never felt like we had the type of complete team that you expect to do much damage in the playoffs, but were good enough to make a run if they got hot and things went their way. This year the team feels much more complete and able to weather some bad bounces and are capable of making their own "luck" so to speak. It's still remains to be seen what the improved D will look like against one of the top playoff teams and whether or not the offense has stabilized. All in all the team and player health appear to be where it needs to be going in.

 

[NOLAHawk]

Pretty sure the game plan where Pete went in to run the ball, did so repeatedly with a noname RB for little gain, barely used Wilson and then lost that playoff game was a bad one.

You know, the one he was soundly outcoached by that savant Jason Garrett?

But the ones we lost by halftime against the Falcons and Panthers were poor showings too.


Are we now pretending these didn't happen?

It's hard to argue one way or another on being outcoached, but throught the years the team has not typically beat teams by margins they were capable of. One can argue that the coaches are brilliant or not, but we have seen the team need 3 feet for a new set of downs and throw a 40 yrd attempt.

I travel a lot and notice that the seahawks are a heroin high. Every other team plays for those 3 feet. Not Seattle. They throw a 2 yard pass when they need 5, or 40y when they need 3 inches- or punt with in field goal range. We are the adicts of the rush. Some of us self loathe the need for the high, the others ignore the pain to get to the high.

I would really like to see Nunya and Twisted meet face to face- I doubt Nuynya would be so rude. I think the level of discourse here has disintegrated to the point where now I don't read for exposure of the other opinions, but to see how big of a douche bag some can be to others.

For any to call a justified opinion of anyone 'garbage' is just lost. Some of you just need a punch in the mouth that would happen if you actually talked to each other in a bar.

The hawks are a good, but frustrating to watch team. None of us are on the team, and none of what is posted influences the outcome of anygame in any way. Be a homer, be a dissenter, in the end it doesn't matter.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

 

[Flyingsquad23]

So punching someone in the face makes your opinion the correct one?

 

[SonicHawk]

We don't know they turned the defense around.

We know the results have gotten incredibly better.

But we also know we have faced several backups and at least 2 QBs that have been permanently benched.

I do think that DJ Reed has massively improved this secondary, and some of that is bleeding in. And we were facing some very good offenses earlier. So we are probably not the worst of all time like we were. And we did go from one of the worst pass rushes in the league to one of the top 5.

But we have still faced a group of godawful QBs, and unsurprisingly our defense has gotten 'better'.

But to pretend we are out of the woods and there is no issue with the DC? Let's hope for the best but maybe expecting that kind of change is a bit much.

Since one of the issues with Pete and one of the reasons we tend to get outcoached in the playoffs is our tendency to cling onto below average coordinators - fixing the Norton issue would be huge.

I hope it happened. But he was never good before, so it feels reasonable to wait until we face a decent QB before claiming things are fixed.

I'll make the argument that stopping Goff and the Rams offense was a valid data point for the improvement of the Hawks D. Goff and the Rams offense have torched our D consistently since McVay arrived. They didn't torch us this time. We kept them without a TD. Our D got pressure on Goff. Goff's throwing hand injury was later in the game, and he scored no TDs with a healthy hand. How will that translate to Erin and the Packers? Unknown. Hoping someone else knocks off the Packers, if they get #1 seed.

As soon as the Rams couldn't dink and dunk across the middle to Reynolds or a 8 yard sideline play to Woods they are toast without their run game.

I think our corners and safeties are actually set up pretty well against Green Bay. I'm actually more worried about their running game. Wish we had a lockdown corner for Adams, but we can keep him in decent check.

In all likelihood we'd have to win a bit of a shootout (hi 20s/30s) to beat GB.

I think our worse matchup is the Saints.

 

[LTH]

Pretty sure the game plan where Pete went in to run the ball, did so repeatedly with a noname RB for little gain, barely used Wilson and then lost that playoff game was a bad one.

You know, the one he was soundly outcoached by that savant Jason Garrett?

But the ones we lost by halftime against the Falcons and Panthers were poor showings too.


Are we now pretending these didn't happen?

It's hard to argue one way or another on being outcoached, but throught the years the team has not typically beat teams by margins they were capable of. One can argue that the coaches are brilliant or not, but we have seen the team need 3 feet for a new set of downs and throw a 40 yrd attempt.

I travel a lot and notice that the seahawks are a heroin high. Every other team plays for those 3 feet. Not Seattle. They throw a 2 yard pass when they need 5, or 40y when they need 3 inches- or punt with in field goal range. We are the adicts of the rush. Some of us self loathe the need for the high, the others ignore the pain to get to the high.

I would really like to see Nunya and Twisted meet face to face- I doubt Nuynya would be so rude. I think the level of discourse here has disintegrated to the point where now I don't read for exposure of the other opinions, but to see how big of a douche bag some can be to others.

For any to call a justified opinion of anyone 'garbage' is just lost. Some of you just need a punch in the mouth that would happen if you actually talked to each other in a bar.

The hawks are a good, but frustrating to watch team. None of us are on the team, and none of what is posted influences the outcome of anygame in any way. Be a homer, be a dissenter, in the end it doesn't matter.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

The rule of thumb is attack the post not the poster... I assume you're talking about me with the garbage thing... I have the right to my opinion too and you have the right not to like it...That's fine with me...

The fire Pete thing is a misunderstanding of epic proportions of what's happening. a winning organization is far more than just a coach and performance on the field...

To replace Pete your pretty much rebuilding the organization.. This organization, in its current form, can not operate efficiently without Pete because he is the one that makes it all work... sometime go onto the Seahawks site and look at who is employed for what position and get an idea of how Carroll has designed this thing and why..

someone coming in new wants their people and rightfully so... the question is if you are an owner do you blow up the whole organization, which by the way, has a revenue increase of 8% last year, because Carroll has not reached the SB in recent years... the fact he has missed the playoffs twice since he got the job along with 2 SB appearances and is knocking on the door of a third is an amazing accomplishment that will launch him into the NFL Hall of Fame...

Now if he didn't win the division and his team was 2-14 for the last 2 seasons then that's when the conversation is relevant in terms of looking to replace a coach who is under performing...So yeah if you look at this situation from my perspective, firing Pete Carroll is an incredibly stupid thing to do that no one in their right mind should even consider for a nano second... So that's where the Garbage comes from...see it the way you want...


LTH

 

[Jerhawk]

Woah NOLA coming in hot!
RKO out of nowhere!

This escalated quickly

 

[TwistedHusky]

Its clear Nunya and I are just not going to agree here. But I am not going to circle back to defend every point when it isn't entirely relevant to the topic if you go deeper. We disagree.

I disagree with LTH all the time. Clearly, he loves the Hawks and knows football. Getting disagreed with is good, its pretty weak to not want to see your opinion challenged. The whole point is to see other perspectives, defend the point when valid or realize you are wrong when not.

One of my favorite posters is Soulfish and we never agree. But if we do, I know damn well it is probably a valid observation. And his optimism is important to talk people like me off the ledge occasionally - like when the defense was putting up hideous stats.

So the whole thing with Nunya, not trying to be jerk just not sure why or how 'proving' we are a #5 roster in some ratings is significant to the discussion. It just derails the point. It probably deserves its own thread. What is our roster rating right now and due to that, what should reasonable expectations be in the playoffs?

(The questions will probably be asked as another thread, where links to the ratings are more relevant. But whether the ratings are #4, #5, or #8 is only important because the point was Carroll significantly improves the roster over the year. I am not even sure you can debate THAT, unless you want to give that credit solely to JS. )

My opinion:

Pete improves the roster, significantly. He also is a coach that in my opinion isn't great on gameday, has challenges with his staff, and forces gameplans on the team that are not always relevant to the strengths/weaknesses of the team or worse, the opposition.

So the team always looks great in the regular season but those issues above tend to become glaring when matched up against a team that does not have those issues.

Is that a reason to fire Pete? Earlier in the year it seemed that we were missing an opportunity with Wilson. But we gave Wilson the keys to the car and he kept crashing it. So maybe not.

Still, it is disappointing that we are not clearly capable of being better and just choosing not to be that because of rigid stances that are counterproductive to winning in the playoffs.



And if I ever met Nunya in person, I would probably just buy him a beer because he is a Seahawk fan too. We both support the same team - just massively disagree on a few things. There are a lot worse things in this world than that...as effing 2020 has spotlighted.

 

[LTH]

Its clear Nunya and I are just not going to agree here. But I am not going to circle back to defend every point when it isn't entirely relevant to the topic if you go deeper. We disagree.

I disagree with LTH all the time. Clearly, he loves the Hawks and knows football. Getting disagreed with is good, its pretty weak to not want to see your opinion challenged. The whole point is to see other perspectives, defend the point when valid or realize you are wrong when not.

One of my favorite posters is Soulfish and we never agree. But if we do, I know damn well it is probably a valid observation. And his optimism is important to talk people like me off the ledge occasionally - like when the defense was putting up hideous stats.

So the whole thing with Nunya, not trying to be jerk just not sure why or how 'proving' we are a #5 roster in some ratings is significant to the discussion. It just derails the point. It probably deserves its own thread. What is our roster rating right now and due to that, what should reasonable expectations be in the playoffs?

(The questions will probably be asked as another thread, where links to the ratings are more relevant. But whether the ratings are #4, #5, or #8 is only important because the point was Carroll significantly improves the roster over the year. I am not even sure you can debate THAT, unless you want to give that credit solely to JS. )

My opinion:

Pete improves the roster, significantly. He also is a coach that in my opinion isn't great on gameday, has challenges with his staff, and forces gameplans on the team that are not always relevant to the strengths/weaknesses of the team or worse, the opposition.

So the team always looks great in the regular season but those issues above tend to become glaring when matched up against a team that does not have those issues.

Is that a reason to fire Pete? Earlier in the year it seemed that we were missing an opportunity with Wilson. But we gave Wilson the keys to the car and he kept crashing it. So maybe not.

Still, it is disappointing that we are not clearly capable of being better and just choosing not to be that because of rigid stances that are counterproductive to winning in the playoffs.



And if I ever met Nunya in person, I would probably just buy him a beer because he is a Seahawk fan too. We both support the same team - just massively disagree on a few things. There are a lot worse things in this world than that...as effing 2020 has spotlighted.

I Don't love the Seahawks so much that I won't criticize them when I feel it's warranted. If you listen to the players like JA and Dunlap you can see how special it is to make the playoffs. these guys are appreciative of the fact they are on a SB contending team because it doesn't happen very often... The Hawks fans including myself are spoiled a bit by the fact that Carroll keeps this team in the playoffs consistently... It's been a long time since this team has been on a dry run of the playoffs... Most have forgotten what it's like to be a fan of a Jets like team... Making the playoffs is the norm with this team... You think if Carroll were to quit right now that he would have problems finding a job being the highest paid coach in the NFL history if he isn't already... I mean Jerry Jones would LOVE to have Pete Carroll... he would pay whatever it took to land Carroll...I think this needs to be taken into consideration...


LTH

 

[WmHBonney]

Who do you want to replace Carroll as head coach?

Brian Daboll.

 

[hawksincebirth]

This didn’t age well sheesh