Pete Carroll: Wasn't 'football people' who decided his fate

[renofox]

What does that even mean? Winning games and making the playoffs is contending. The Seahawks have done that for most of the last decade.

The fundamental dichotomy is that some Seahawks fans are happy with contending, and others aren't happy unless the team is perpetually among the elite.

Constructing teams to win games is competing.

contender​

noun​

con·tend·er kən-ˈten-dər

Synonyms of contender
: one that contends
especially : a competitor for a championship or high honor

Constructing teams to win championships is contending.

This ends today's lesson on words having actual meanings.

p.s. As I have constantly debated on this board, PC has employed a high-floor, low-ceiling strategy for years. The Seahawks roster/trade/cap strategy has been designed to compete (be at least .500) at the cost of being able to contend (have a shot at a Lombardi) in future seasons.

Massive overpays for shoring up present weaknesses (the oft discussed band-aid approach) to ensure ~.500 seasons are good examples.

If you want more examples search my posts.

 

[Jazzhawk]

He's violating his own rule: "Protect the Team."

Nah. If you listen to the comments, they were not made with malice or anger, just disagreement.

 

[Germanhawk7]

Well, that's tough coach. You've had YEARS to fix it.

You're a defensive coach and your defense finished near bottom the last two seasons. Why weren't these adjustments already made?

Sounds like sour excuses.

100%.
As a "defensive mind" the strongest part of your team should be the defense.
Unfortunately, that was exactly the weaker part along with an absolutely creativeless offensive.

To stand up now and say "I know what the problem is and I was deprived of the opportunity to fix it" is hard...

 

[Ozzy]

No. Fade doesn't make a decent point; being in the top 5 in regular season wins is not mediocre-to-bad. Making the NFCCG is not a reasonable metric for evaluation.

Here's a good example of why playoff wins are misleading when evaluating coaching, John Harbaugh has 1 playoff win since 2015. Is John Harbaugh one of the best coaches in the league?

So he has the same amount of wins as Pete in a much better conference with multiple elite Quarterbacks and looks to have the best team in the league now (so progress) while also drafting late every year?

Yeah I’d argue he’s one of the best coaches in the league. I’d also argue Pete still was too and that it was time for Seattle to move on for multiple reasons. Both can be true. I think Holmgren was still a very good coach when he left and it was the right time then too.

But let me ask the “we were stupid to fire Pete crowd. If he is still a top 3 or whatever coach in the league why is there ZERO buzz for him with 7 openings right now? He’s said he wants to coach and still can. If we’re all absurd for thinking moving on was reasonable why doesn’t the league appear to agree with you? Is it possible you’re maybe looking at this wrong? Bill Bellicheck is drawing interest at a similar age to Pete. Apparently teams are interested in Vrable too.

 

[Cyrus12]

So he has the same amount of wins as Pete in a much better conference with multiple elite Quarterbacks and looks to have the best team in the league now (so progress) while also drafting late every year?

Yeah I’d argue he’s one of the best coaches in the league. I’d also argue Pete still was too and that it was time for Seattle to move on for multiple reasons. Both can be true. I think Holmgren was still a very good coach when he left and it was the right time then too.

But let me ask the “we were stupid to fire Pete crowd. If he is still a top 3 or whatever coach in the league why is there ZERO buzz for him with 7 openings right now? He’s said he wants to coach and still can. If we’re all absurd for thinking moving on was reasonable why doesn’t the league appear to agree with you? Is it possible you’re maybe looking at this wrong? Bill Bellicheck is drawing interest at a similar age to Pete. Apparently teams are interested in Vrable too.

Possibly due to him going to an advisor position and not getting a clean break from the team like Bellicheck got. Imo It would of been better for Pete and perhaps the team if he was completely out of the building but his paycheck probably looks pretty good every two weeks. It's also early yet so who knows what happens. Maybe he's just happy where he lives.

 

[RiverDog]

The more I think about it, the more that I feel this attempt to blame "non football people" for not being able to understand what the problems were and his plan to fix it as a reason why he and his superiors couldn't see eye to eye is a bunch of BS.

It doesn't take a keen football mind to look at the standings, the playoff record over the past 7 years, the embarrassing statistical rankings the defense has turned in, the losses to division rivals, etc. Those results and facts would be hard to rationalize to anyone.

All businesses are results orientated, and Pete wasn't producing the expected results. It's that simple.

 

[Ozzy]

Possibly due to him going to an advisor position and not getting a clean break from the team like Bellicheck got. Imo It would have been better for Pete and perhaps the team if he was completely out of the building but his paycheck probably looks pretty good every two weeks. It's also early yet so who knows what happens. Maybe he's just happy where he lives.

Teams do the advisor position all the time and it’s a move for the public out of respect. He can hang around the team if he wants but he’s said multiple times he wants to coach and can still coach, and that he has no idea what his title even means.

If he was considered a top coach teams wouldn’t care about his advisory role especially since he’s said he still wants to coach. It’s early for Bill B and others too yet they’re being mentioned.

I think it’s obvious why he’s not and that the league probably looks at Seattle and thinks they did the right thing. It’s possible a team like Carolina after not being able to get a few guys considers him so I do agree it’s early but man getting zero buzz? It’s pretty obvious the Seahawks weren’t crazy here.

 

[Ozzy]

The more I think about it, the more that I feel this attempt to blame "non football people" for not being able to understand what the problems were and his plan to fix it as a reason why he and his superiors couldn't see eye to eye is a bunch of BS.

It doesn't take a keen football mind to look at the standings, the playoff record over the past 7 years, the embarrassing statistical rankings the defense has turned in, the losses to division rivals, etc. Those results and facts would be hard to rationalize to anyone.

All businesses are results orientated, and Pete wasn't producing the expected results. It's that simple.

Agreed. I do think it was sort of a weird answer and shows why people thought it was time in my opinion. Heck I light even feel similar if I was in his shoes to some extent but hearing that? I wasn’t a fan either.

 

[Cyrus12]

Teams do the advisor position all the time and it’s a move for the public out of respect. He can hang around the team if he wants but he’s said multiple times he wants to coach and can still coach, and that he has no idea what his title even means.

If he was considered a top coach teams wouldn’t care about his advisory role especially since he’s said he still wants to coach. It’s early for Bill B and others too yet they’re being mentioned.

I think it’s obvious why he’s not and that the league probably looks at Seattle and thinks they did the right thing. It’s possible a team like Carolina after not being able to get a few guys considers him so I do agree it’s early but man getting zero buzz? It’s pretty obvious the Seahawks weren’t crazy here.

Most of the buzz I'm seeing for even Bill is media hype. Both basically were fired in a 24 hour period and neither has been interviewed yet. Even Harbaugh just had his first interview confirmed today. I think there is a ton of clickbait out there that is mostly crap. If it's a week or two from now and Pete has had no interest then I'd agree it's telling..but imo its too early yet to write him off. Imo he still looks a lot more youthful and healthier than Bellicheck but that super bowl record can't be ignored.

 

[Ozzy]

Most of the buzz I'm seeing for even Bill is media hype. Both basically were fired in a 24 hour period and neither has been interviewed yet. Even Harbaugh just had his first interview confirmed today. I think there is a ton of clickbait out there that is mostly crap. If it's a week or two from now and Pete has had no interest then I'd agree it's telling..but imo its too early yet to write him off. Imo he still looks a lot more youthful and healthier than Bellicheck but that super bowl record can't be ignored.

You’re right it could easily change fast. I hope he gets another chance as that’s what he wants to do.

 

[Fernie Hawks Fan]

The more I think about it, the more that I feel this attempt to blame "non football people" for not being able to understand what the problems were and his plan to fix it as a reason why he and his superiors couldn't see eye to eye is a bunch of BS.

It doesn't take a keen football mind to look at the standings, the playoff record over the past 7 years, the embarrassing statistical rankings the defense has turned in, the losses to division rivals, etc. Those results and facts would be hard to rationalize to anyone.

All businesses are results orientated, and Pete wasn't producing the expected results. It's that simple.

I have to agree with Dog on this. After all...it was also "non football people" who hired him.. Paul Allen. And also the same people who gave him the power he had.

 

[Cyrus12]

If Philly loses this weekend I think Sirianni is out which opens up a spot there. His team has quit on him.

 

[MD5eahawks]

Well all I can say about this is that "Football People" made that call at the goal line.

Sometimes a view from outside is not as clouded up with overthinking.

 

[PateratoWilson]

Well, that's tough coach. You've had YEARS to fix it.

You're a defensive coach and your defense finished near bottom the last two seasons. Why weren't these adjustments already made?

Sounds like sour excuses.

This 100%. Get lost.

 

[chris98251]

As a business person and fan you see a different team then your used to on the field, especially on defense, the push to get Adams and how he has not delivered to try and get immediate playoff success. Now if you look at Offense defense rankings offense ok not great but not horrible and you have the rotation of lineman injured but Geno has played admirably as Wilsons replacement. On defense we sucked ass, no fan will be blinded about that. We have sucked for the last few years and since Pete is a defensive coach that falls on him, that's his strength, his selection of coaches as well as players to mold what we have currently.

If your a cook and are known for how well you can bake lets say and win awards and all that for you pies. Suddenly people start complaining about them and quit buying them. What changed, ingredients, Ovens, or did you change the recipe.

Place you bought from went out of business or you went with cheaper.

Went from a old fashion gas oven to electric.

Someone suggested you change how you make the crust and its now gooey instead of flakey.

In any event something changed, but.... it was not corrected and your still not selling Pies for Vulcan.

You may know what changed but you have not corrected it, or found a replacement vendor.

That kind of situation I believe applies to our defense and ability to win tough games and advance in the playoffs.

That is also what I think Jody and her advisors see.

Losing games we should win, a defense that looks terrible even to laymen's eyes, it doing that for more then just a couple of seasons since the regression has been continuous. Your Head Coach being labeled a defensive guru and not able to get it right. Spending big dollars for impact guys that don't impact your success.

 

[GemCity]

QUOTE="Fade, post: 2898017, member: 14149"]

I fully agree.


Jody has bigger balls than most dudes on here.


Most would've been totally fine with mediocrity and letting the Seahawks sink further into darkness. Not Jody. She whipped it out and showed Pete who's boss.


The future is bright!

QFT from the props to Jody thread.

And I agree with RJ above as well. If a football person, or Paul Allen for that matter had been in charge, he would've been fired 2-4 years ago. Paul Allen's illness and death dragged this thing out longer than intended.

Now Pete gets to be Jody's poolboy, or hangout in a shoebox next to JS' desk, but I kid.

He wants to still coach, he has made that abundantly clear, this wasn't mutual, and he was fired in a PC way.

I hope he gets the opportunity, and contrary to popular belief, I will root for him wherever he goes.

It wasn't working here for a long time, his defensive scheme and philosophy was figured out a longtime ago. If it wasn't for consistent Pro-Bowl QB play over the last 10 years his record would be horrible for those looking to cite that.

He only has 1 playoff win in the last 7 years. And that was a narrow victory against an emergency, overthe hill, 3rd string QB.

But more importantly, its about the process, not W-L record. The defense was continually going backwards no matter how many assets were thrown at it, hitching his wagon to crony's like Hurtt, who couldn't coach himself out a wet paperbag! I mean, if it smelled like butter he might've actually ate it. But, how do you think it was going to end, is the point?

No one was buying what Pete was selling anymore. He did a poor job of pitching why he should remain as the headcoach publicly through the media the final month of the season.

Seriously, go back and listen to these interviews, and statements on his shows. He incriminated himself. Jody teabagged Pete, finally!

We're in good hands.. The future is bright!
[/QUOTE]


I’ve got pretty big bawlz tho Fade.

 

[CouchLogic]

At the end of the day Pete's team was bad for business (showing no signs of improvement) and you don't %$## with a company (or rich person's) bottom line. He was given ample opportunity to fix his mess and he dug in. $#!+, he was talking about Jamal Adams like he was going to be lining up on defense again next season...WTAF...

I would of let him go too.

 

[James in PA]

If Philly loses this weekend I think Sirianni is out which opens up a spot there. His team has quit on him.

Cowherd keeps linking Bill B to that job. Bill B stays in the northeast and the Eagles' only glaring weaknesses are LBs and secondary, which Bill B could coach up.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pete had a vision as to how to fix the problems and others didn't agree with his vision? Shocking. I didn't agree with it either because it wasn't working. His vision is why the team is in the state it's in.

If Pete keeps running his dentures like this, he won't be with the Seahawks much longer in any capacity.

 

[renofox]

As a business person and fan you see a different team then your used to on the field, especially on defense, the push to get Adams and how he has not delivered to try and get immediate playoff success. Now if you look at Offense defense rankings offense ok not great but not horrible and you have the rotation of lineman injured but Geno has played admirably as Wilsons replacement. On defense we sucked ass, no fan will be blinded about that. We have sucked for the last few years and since Pete is a defensive coach that falls on him, that's his strength, his selection of coaches as well as players to mold what we have currently.

If your a cook and are known for how well you can bake lets say and win awards and all that for you pies. Suddenly people start complaining about them and quit buying them. What changed, ingredients, Ovens, or did you change the recipe.

Place you bought from went out of business or you went with cheaper.

Went from a old fashion gas oven to electric.

Someone suggested you change how you make the crust and its now gooey instead of flakey.

In any event something changed, but.... it was not corrected and your still not selling Pies for Vulcan.

You may know what changed but you have not corrected it, or found a replacement vendor.

That kind of situation I believe applies to our defense and ability to win tough games and advance in the playoffs.

That is also what I think Jody and her advisors see.

Losing games we should win, a defense that looks terrible even to laymen's eyes, it doing that for more then just a couple of seasons since the regression has been continuous. Your Head Coach being labeled a defensive guru and not able to get it right. Spending big dollars for impact guys that don't impact your success.

I love the analogy.

PC was selling a cow pie defense for 5 years. Every year it kept getting shittier. He wanted to keep the same ingredients and add a little sugar. After 5 years of eating shitty pie, Jody didn't want a sweetened cow pie. She didn't buy PC's pie.