Russ struggling?

[AROS]

My biggest beef yesterday was Russell not bootlegging out of pressure, instead staying back in the high point of the pocket for too long, inevitably pressure would get there where happy feet, shoulder shrugs and sacks could be found.

I want Russell MOVING especially against those tough fronts like the Rams have. He may not be as fast as he used to be but he can still move and has decent mobility for a QB. I can't tell how much of this is Russ or Schotty. Hike the ball, roll out of the pocket and buy some time (when it's warranted). When Russ is a lot more mobile, he can change the game and frustrate the hell out of defenses.

I get that you don't want your QB bootlegging on every pass play but this stubborn insistence to try to stay in the pocket when there's nothing available, forcing a incompletion or inaccurate pass or worse, a sack, just frustrates me to no end.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm laughing more at the fact that no matter what this guy does, it's never good enough.
A bunch of whining 12's on the radio were complaining that Russ "should have ran" instead of throwing an absolute dime to Moore. Geez man, he just can't win.
Lord Rodgers and Mahomes do the same exact thing all the time, they get praised for it. Russ does it, he's making a "bad decision"
He only "should have ran it" if it DOESN'T WORK. You could point to many QB's around the league and see a play that they had a bunch of running room, but threw it downfield. It's not some uncommon thing.
If he does run it, people will point out that he missed a wide open player. If he doesn't run it, he gets blasted for that.

I didn't like the play calling that was keeping him in the pocket. Not against that D Line. But at the same time, 2 HUGE touchdown drives in the 2nd half. And Russ being Nails AGAIN. They are not even close to 11-4 without him under center. Can he play better? Absolutely. But he was basically carrying the team the first half of the season because what WAS a historically bad defense.

 

[RiverDog]

My biggest beef yesterday was Russell not bootlegging out of pressure, instead staying back in the high point of the pocket for too long, inevitably pressure would get there where happy feet, shoulder shrugs and sacks could be found.

I want Russell MOVING especially against those tough fronts like the Rams have. He may not be as fast as he used to be but he can still move and has decent mobility for a QB. I can't tell how much of this is Russ or Schotty. Hike the ball, roll out of the pocket and buy some time (when it's warranted). When Russ is a lot more mobile, he can change the game and frustrate the hell out of defenses.

I get that you don't want your QB bootlegging on every pass play but this stubborn insistence to try to stay in the pocket when there's nothing available, forcing a incompletion or inaccurate pass or worse, a sack, just frustrates me to no end.

For some reason, Russell has been making a lot of bad decisions as to when to try to break the pocket and extend the play or unload it and avoid the sack. He doesn't see defenders and will often times run himself into a sack. Part of it could be that his legs are getting heavier, that he doesn't have that elusiveness like he had 6-8 years ago and has yet to fully realize these new limitations and hasn't made the adjustment yet.

But as I said earlier, my biggest beef is with his situational awareness, like losing track of the play clock, taking a sack on first down by trying to make something happen out of a busted play rather than throwing it away, or like last Sunday when he takes off on a scramble in the middle of the field from his own 30 with 23 seconds and no timeouts. Those are the types of mistakes you expect a rookie to make, not a 9 year veteran who prides himself on his mental preparation.

I don't want to act like I'm throwing Russell under the bus and I sometimes wonder if he's spoiled us to the point where we expect him to be perfect all the time. But as a diehard Hawks fan that has lived through so many of Dave Krieg's brain farts, it's still very infuriating and frustrating to watch it happen to the best QB in our franchise's history.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

11-4
Division Champs
Winning sucks

4,031 Passing Yards
38 Touchdowns
13 Picks
While the Interception numbers are high FOR HIM, those numbers are damn good. And people are acting like he's Jared Off or something :mrgreen:

 

[RiverDog]

I'm laughing more at the fact that no matter what this guy does, it's never good enough.
A bunch of whining 12's on the radio were complaining that Russ "should have ran" instead of throwing an absolute dime to Moore. Geez man, he just can't win.
Lord Rodgers and Mahomes do the same exact thing all the time, they get praised for it. Russ does it, he's making a "bad decision"
He only "should have ran it" if it DOESN'T WORK. You could point to many QB's around the league and see a play that they had a bunch of running room, but threw it downfield. It's not some uncommon thing.
If he does run it, people will point out that he missed a wide open player. If he doesn't run it, he gets blasted for that.

I didn't like the play calling that was keeping him in the pocket. Not against that D Line. But at the same time, 2 HUGE touchdown drives in the 2nd half. And Russ being Nails AGAIN. They are not even close to 11-4 without him under center. Can he play better? Absolutely. But he was basically carrying the team the first half of the season because what WAS a historically bad defense.

Regarding the pass play to Moore. Had the game situation been different, if, for example, we were trailing in the 4th quarter by a FG, then I would have joined the others you are referring to and said that the smart play would have been to take the 10 yards or so and keep the sticks moving. But the score was 6-6 and it was early in the 2nd half, so there wasn't the sense of urgency that would have dictated that we play conservatively and go with the best odds play. I don't mind taking a shot down the field under those circumstances.

The last TD drive was a thing of beauty. I just wish he'd be a little more consistent.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. I just find it odd that even when he wins a big game, more time is spent on the negative when it comes to Russ. Oh well, kind of par for the course his entire career.
The offense in general has been up and down. But they did put up 20 against the best Defense in the league.

 

[fenderbender123]

I was happy to see him connect with Moore on that throw on the run when he was scrambling. Seems like he's misfired and even thrown picks a few times doing that this year. He could have ran for about 15 yards, so I'd be bitching if the pass was incomplete. But since it wasn't, I gotta give him respect for showing us why he trusts his ability to make deep throws, even while running.

Otherwise, I do agree Russ isn't playing his best. That throw into triple coverage early in the game that bounced off a defender's chest was terrible.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, let's dwell on that one bad throw. And yes, it was a bad one.
Followed by yet another Clutch game clinching drive. Two touchdowns drives in the 2nd half. Nails, again.

And of course people will get mad if it's incomplete and he could have ran it. That's very justified. What is odd to me is that people seem to mad that he even tried it. That play has nothing to do with previous forced throws. Moore was open, he put it on the money.

 

[fenderbender123]

I'm not dwelling on it. Just pointing it out. It was the only bad play that sticks out in my mind. Overall, Russ had a great game considering the defense he was up against.

 

[sutz]

Also, teams are getting better at how to pass rush mobile QBs, including Russ. If the D-line is disciplined and stays in their lanes, and a 5th player does a delayed rush that watches for the gaps that form, you corral the QB so that if he doesn't release the ball he gets taken down.

I don't mean to excuse Russ, he does tend to hold the ball too long on many plays, but of course that's also when those big plays often happen, too. Trade offs, as always. :twisted:

 

[getnasty]

If you take out the first half if the season his numbers would look somewhere in the middle of the pack for sure. Obviously the start of the season was out of the world so you can't compare to that but something definitely looks off a bit with the offense.

My guess is a combination of Russ being a little gun shy after throwing so many picks in the Buffalo and Arizona game and Pete dialing back the offense to help the defense but this is just pure speculation.

Seems like every year he goes through a stretch where he hits his back foot and the ball doesn't come out.

Russ doesn't have to be what he was in the first 5 but he has to be better then the last 5 for us to do anything.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Def. some trade off's with his style. Absolutely he does hold on to the ball too long at times. Same thing plenty other guys do. A couple of those sacks looked like designed runs up the middle and/or he saw a big opening and kind of ran right into it. But we were watching the game and were more impressed with that damn good Rams defense. What looked like an easy run up the middle for him closed up quick. I actually prefer he be extra careful. But I don't think even Pete can just take away the gunslinger, back yard football/create big plays from Russ. That's just a part of who he is as a QB. Can it be maddening at times? Hell yes, but the payoff is one of the most successful QB's we have ever seen. He gets it done as well as any in the history of the game.
He had a mid season slump for his standards. Russ homer or not, I guess I just don't think he's playing as bad as many make it out to be. It goes without saying he has to be on top of his game for this team to be successful. But that is no different than any team with a top tier QB.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Here is the reality

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...questions_12_28_2020&utm_term=Registered User

". Has the offense found its winning formula for the playoffs?
Jude: For the most part, yes. The Let Russ Cook era, as brief as it was, was thrilling — there’s no denying that. And I understand some of the consternation from a particular faction of the fan base that’s screaming for Carroll to again give Wilson more freedom. But Carroll does not view offensive football in a vacuum; he does not see defensive football in a vacuum, either. When he talks about “balance” and a “complementary” style, he is talking about his offense and his defense helping each other out. We saw a prime example of that not happening in the Buffalo game, when Seattle’s four offensive turnovers put its defense in peril. Carroll is not going back to that. The Seahawks’ September offensive surge was, in hindsight, a mirage. There was nothing normal about the buildup to the 2020 season for anyone — limited practices, no preseason, new testing routines, etc., and offenses around the league had the upper hand early. Seattle’s offensive success in the first half of the season created unrealistic expectations. Defenses have adjusted; they’re making it harder for the Seahawks to execute those big plays downfield — the loss to the Giants being a prime example of that. Wilson tried three deep passes Sunday; the throws for Metcalf and Tyler Lockett fell incomplete. The 45-yard pass to David Moore was the play of the game on offense. You can call Carroll’s approach conservative, but you have to also acknowledge it’s a proven approach in the playoffs — and one the Seahawks used to win a playoff-type game Sunday.

Condotta: Yes. True, it took a little while for Seattle’s offense to find its footing Sunday. But as Carroll noted later, a big factor was the Seahawks not turning the ball over — one of just five times this year Seattle has done that. All have been wins. And I think some of the “slow start” was in part not wanting to make a game-turning mistake. As long as Seattle was within one possession of tying or taking the lead, the Seahawks were going to preach not screwing things up on offense, especially early. You saw Wilson get more aggressive in the second half and that was by design. True, Seattle averaged just 4.8 yards per play, lowest of the season other than the loss against the Giants. But that rose to 6.3 in the second half when Seattle had five of its seven longest gains, with Wilson completing 10 of 13 passes for 141 yards against statistically the NFL’s best pass defense. In Carroll’s perfect world Seattle might rush for more than 95 yards. But Seattle had 4.0 per attempt, and Chris Carson had 21 yards on three attempts on the final touchdown drive that moved the ball and kept the clock running (or forced L.A. to use its timeouts). It felt like the running game was just enough to make a difference, which is what Seattle will need in the postseason."


You will not see many if any 300+ 4td games. You will see more of the 200 yards 2-3 tds high complt % games. Which is what we got this last game, adn what PC wants

So the if that is not elite to you then take it up with PC. And FYi going by PCs definition Wilson was elite this last game.

This is what I have been thinking. Pete is all about competitive balance. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Russell’s numbers went down about the same time that the defense started getting it together.

With the let Russ cook philosophy, the offense was able to go out and almost score at will. Or so it seems upon retrospect. What this scoring did was put the Seahawks up fairly big but also inspired opposing teams to start chucking the ball in an all out effort to get back in the game. The defense ended up back on their heels and gave up big chunks of yards. This was at a time when players were out injured and/or were new to the team without the benefit of offseason programs and preseason to learn the scheme and each other.

I believe that Pete looked at this and decided it wasn’t helping the competitive balance of the team. It looks to me that Pete dialed back the let cook Russ philosophy and went back to Pete ball. The 6-6 tie at halftime lends some credence to this. According to reports, Pete was very happy with the halftime results. In affect they were playing exactly the way he wanted them to play.

I’m also convinced there was a series in the third quarter where they had to punt that Russ actually took control. It was when he overthrew Tyler. The look on his face seemed like he knew he could put the ball wherever he wanted, he just needed to adjust to his teammates. He also had a scramble in that same drive where it just seemed like the light went on.

It looks to me like they have been working on finding the right balance of when to let Russ cook.
As far as Russ looking off in the pocket...I just don’t think he’s as quick as he was a few years ago and is learning to adjust his game to that little loss of instinctual quickness.

This has been an interesting year without the offseason programs and preseason. The teams that have done the best work of learning and adjusting in this model will be the ones standing at the end.

 

[RiverDog]

Fair enough. I just find it odd that even when he wins a big game, more time is spent on the negative when it comes to Russ. Oh well, kind of par for the course his entire career.

It comes with the territory. Every quarterback that has ever played the position has had to put up with the same type or worse criticism. Remember what they used to say about Steve Young and John Elway? Can't win the big one?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Except for he HAS won the big one. And has flat out carried this team for years, on many occasions.
The Defense was so bad earlier in the year, he had to try to put it all on himself. Thus, forcing things. Not his usual style. People quickly forget that he has always been VERY good at staying away from turnovers. This year, he had that stretch, but he's fine.

 

[hoxrox]

My biggest beef yesterday was Russell not bootlegging out of pressure, instead staying back in the high point of the pocket for too long, inevitably pressure would get there where happy feet, shoulder shrugs and sacks could be found.

I want Russell MOVING especially against those tough fronts like the Rams have. He may not be as fast as he used to be but he can still move and has decent mobility for a QB. I can't tell how much of this is Russ or Schotty. Hike the ball, roll out of the pocket and buy some time (when it's warranted). When Russ is a lot more mobile, he can change the game and frustrate the hell out of defenses.

I get that you don't want your QB bootlegging on every pass play but this stubborn insistence to try to stay in the pocket when there's nothing available, forcing a incompletion or inaccurate pass or worse, a sack, just frustrates me to no end.

Yeah the timing and tempo seems off too. If the play calls for a 3-step drop, then he needs to pull the trigger right then and there. Too much hesitation. Otherwise, if he's looking something more downfield, why not more boots to get away from that collapsing pocket?

Also a couple of plays where he could have gained some big yards on a read-option keeper. Why call read-option if he never keeps?

Obviously the game plan worked against this Rams defense. But I would like to see more variety and creativity. Make every down count.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Again, the perfect quarterback does not exist.
The Quick passing game was $ vs. Washington. They are very capable of adjusting. The offense in general has been a bit up and down lately. But they did just put up 20 on 2 of the best defenses in the league.

 

[ludakrishna]

He’s making $35M/Year. He IS the highest paid player in the NFL this season.

Is he playing like the highest paid player in the league?
No!

Is he playing like a top 5 QB in the league?
No! Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Brady, Tannehill playing better than him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Rodgers and Mahomes, sure. He could throw 9 TD's and zero picks and people would complain. Period.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Tale of Russell's season:

Pre-season: Tells Pete and everyone else that'll listen that he wants to cook in order to fulfill his commitment of being the best QB ever.

First 5-6 games: Russ plays at MVP level because he and his receivers are light years ahead of NFL defenses that had no practice time in camp or pre-season games.

Middle 5-6 games: Russ forces same game plan and playcalling that worked for the first five games, but defenses caught up and figured out how to defend the deep shot offense Russell was employing.

Last 2-3 games: Russell settled into what works, and more importantly what he's consistently good at.........which is making sure the run game leads to explosive play action relying on his accuracy and play making ability.

So struggling? No, not anymore. But learning that he's not the same QB as guys like Rodgers and Mahomes and he NEEDS a balanced offense with a good run game in order to take advantage of what he does best?

Absolutely.