Time to give Ben Burr-Kirven a shot???

[PNW]

I love that defense

"Well he'd be playing if he was better"

Better in practice eh? That's about the only thing they can evaluate.. and we see them reguarly make iconicly stupid starting decisions

Agreed!

 

[CPHawk]

There was a time when someone on the roster was a starter over Sherman, Why didn’t the coaches have him as a starter? Was it because the guy ahead of him in the depth chart was better? I’m not saying Kirvin is HOF level but you don’t know how it’s going to work until you get the player on that field. If Barton was looking solid on the field I wouldn’t mention anything. This was only brought up due to the flat out awful play of Barton, I would be willing to bet Kirvin would be as good if not better given the low bar Barton is setting, plus he’s quicker, faster and more athletic.

To be fair, that someone else (WT3) was actually pretty good he just couldn't stay healthy. BbK isn't stuck behind a guy with a lot of talent, he is behind a guy that we all see struggling out there. If he was better, he would play. 2 totally different situations. And the coaches do have 1.5 of being around BBK, they know what he is and isn't by now.

 

[Grahamhawker]

I really think they know what they have in BBK and Barton by now. That said, he really couldn't do much worse, could he, so...

 

[Jerhawk]

Barton did tip the interception that Neal snagged.

Other than that he's not very good. It would be interesting to see what BBK can do

 

[PNW]

There was a time when someone on the roster was a starter over Sherman, Why didn’t the coaches have him as a starter? Was it because the guy ahead of him in the depth chart was better? I’m not saying Kirvin is HOF level but you don’t know how it’s going to work until you get the player on that field. If Barton was looking solid on the field I wouldn’t mention anything. This was only brought up due to the flat out awful play of Barton, I would be willing to bet Kirvin would be as good if not better given the low bar Barton is setting, plus he’s quicker, faster and more athletic.

To be fair, that someone else (WT3) was actually pretty good he just couldn't stay healthy. BbK isn't stuck behind a guy with a lot of talent, he is behind a guy that we all see struggling out there. If he was better, he would play. 2 totally different situations. And the coaches do have 1.5 of being around BBK, they know what he is and isn't by now.

So you believe players can be evaluated based on practice only, I know WT3 was good but he wasn’t Sherman level, yet they still started him over Sherman. I don’t think anyone can say just yet what BBK can bring because he hasn’t gotten a chance but we all know what Barton brings by now, hopefully the coaches give BBK a shot now.

 

[Osprey]

Worth the experiment and might shock Barton into a reset.

Reset to what? He was awful last year too. I believe Barton may be not suited to play OLB role. He's probably better suited to be a MLB (backup to Wagner) and stick with that. They picked up Tim Williams last week. Hopefully he can fill the role moving forward.

Ha, good point. How about just shock him into realizing his career hinges on immediate improvement.

Barton at MLB scares me with the lack of physicality and wrap up.

 

[PNW]

Worth the experiment and might shock Barton into a reset.

Reset to what? He was awful last year too. I believe Barton may be not suited to play OLB role. He's probably better suited to be a MLB (backup to Wagner) and stick with that. They picked up Tim Williams last week. Hopefully he can fill the role moving forward.

Ha, good point. How about just shock him into realizing his career hinges on immediate improvement.

Barton at MLB scares me with the lack of physicality and wrap up.

Agreed! Good thing we have Jordyn Brooks as the replacement MLB moving forward

 

[Osprey]

Agreed! Good thing we have Jordyn Brooks as the replacement MLB moving forward

Hopefully Brooks is Will or Sam to Bobby’s Mike for at least a few years.

 

[AgentDib]

So you believe players can be evaluated based on practice only

Of course they can't, but game time is a very precious resource. It would be a terrible strategy to cycle a bunch of players through game snaps for evaluation purposes and then use those tiny sample sizes to make sweeping roster decisions. The coaching staff has been working with BBK and Barton for a year and a half now, and that involves a ton of meetings, film sessions, and practices. Surely it makes sense to incorporate that mountain of information into the decision of who should be getting gameday snaps?

I know WT3 was good but he wasn’t Sherman level, yet they still started him over Sherman.

This isn't a good analogy. Sherman was a late WR convert in college and a raw prospect in the draft. His work ethic and the Seahawks coaching staff enabled him to develop into an All Pro but it was a process. It's entirely reasonable that they thought he was less gameday ready as a rookie than WT3, and it's entirely unreasonable to suggest we would have left Sherman on the bench indefinitely despite his development. Sherman was the next man up because of what he was doing in practice, and without WT3's injury he still would have demonstrated that he was ready for a starting job.

I don’t think anyone can say just yet what BBK can bring because he hasn’t gotten a chance but we all know what Barton brings by now, hopefully the coaches give BBK a shot now.

It can always get worse. Barton didn't play well yesterday, but he did make some plays in a game that we won. You have no way of knowing that BBK would have played as well, let alone better, and making a change just for change's sake is completely irrational. Fans latch onto a backup half a dozen times every season and in hindsight they are nearly always wrong. Why can't a player demonstrate that they deserve gameday snaps in practice?

 

[PNW]

So you believe players can be evaluated based on practice only

Of course they can't, but game time is a very precious resource. It would be a terrible strategy to cycle a bunch of players through game snaps for evaluation purposes and then use those tiny sample sizes to make sweeping roster decisions. The coaching staff has been working with BBK and Barton for a year and a half now, and that involves a ton of meetings, film sessions, and practices. Surely it makes sense to incorporate that mountain of information into the decision of who should be getting gameday snaps?

I know WT3 was good but he wasn’t Sherman level, yet they still started him over Sherman.

This isn't a good analogy. Sherman was a late WR convert in college and a raw prospect in the draft. His work ethic and the Seahawks coaching staff enabled him to develop into an All Pro but it was a process. It's entirely reasonable that they thought he was less gameday ready as a rookie than WT3, and it's entirely unreasonable to suggest we would have left Sherman on the bench indefinitely despite his development. Sherman was the next man up because of what he was doing in practice, and without WT3's injury he still would have demonstrated that he was ready for a starting job.

I don’t think anyone can say just yet what BBK can bring because he hasn’t gotten a chance but we all know what Barton brings by now, hopefully the coaches give BBK a shot now.

It can always get worse. Barton didn't play well yesterday, but he did make some plays in a game that we won. You have no way of knowing that BBK would have played as well, let alone better, and making a change just for change's sake is completely irrational. Fans latch onto a backup half a dozen times every season and in hindsight they are nearly always wrong. Why can't a player demonstrate that they deserve gameday snaps in practice?

I don’t believe it gets much worse than what I’ve seen out of Barton, he looks like he’s not ready to play at an NFL level currently. Our coaching staff has made mistakes starting guys that had no business starting (TT or Steven Terrell) Tedric was a monster in practice and I’m guess Terrell showed enough in practice to give him the green light, it doesn’t always translate and coaches aren’t always correct, sometimes players ball out when given a shot, is TT even in the NFL anymore? This isn’t wasting precious resources if you’re replacing a guy that can’t tackle and takes awful angles every time I see him on the field, if he keeps this up someone is going to bump above him in the depth chart, who will that be? That remains to be seen. I’m not latching onto anyone in particular, he’s just the next man up and has been in the system long enough to get a shot. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[AgentDib]

Our coaching staff has made mistakes starting guys that had no business starting (TT or Steven Terrell) Tedric was a monster in practice and I’m guess Terrell showed enough in practice to give him the green light, it doesn’t always translate and coaches aren’t always correct, sometimes players ball out when given a shot, is TT even in the NFL anymore?

And do you remember who was behind those guys on the depth chart? When a player is struggling fans love to argue that a switch should be made, but the truth is usually that the player is the best of the available options but that it's an area of weakness. There's never enough resources to go around in the NFL and so there will always be some holes, especially after injuries occur. I'm not defending Barton's play, but if you don't like how a second string player is doing then it's a poor bet to be asking for the third string.

There are some situations where a better player may get buried on the depth chart for political reasons, for example when the GM wants his first round pick to be played. However, if there is one team in the NFL that is willing to give a guy like BBK (or Shaquem) a shot over other players if they are balling out than that's this team. If BBK was outplaying Barton in practice then we would see him on the field, and if he isn't then that is one key piece of information that you should use to form your opinion about who should be playing on Sundays.

Finally, it's a myth that there are NFL players who are mediocre in practice but show up great on gamedays. Fans like to theorize that to support threads such as this, but in reality when a player makes it onto the active roster it's because they've demonstrated that they deserve the shot.

 

[HawkerD]

:ditto:

He lack speed & size for the NFL. If he is playing on D, we either are up by 28 or desperate.

So you’ve been happy with Barton? Cause I’ve been very disappointed, there’s no telling how well Kirvin would do until you get him out there, there’s lots of fast guys (not sure where you got BBK being slow from? 4.56 40yard) that are undersized succeeding in the NFL. As long as he can make a tackle or even hold onto someone until Wagner comes over to clean up he’s already doing better than Barton. Barton ran a 4.64 40yard for the record so he’s at least faster than that.

The answer to bad is not terrible.

I mean you mentioned Kirvin was lacking speed even though he’s quicker and faster than Barton. Reality is you actually have no clue if he’s worse or not, this is just your opinion at the same time I don’t know either, but what I do know is I see Barton failing his test so I’m open to new things. If Barton is “bad” right now it might be a time to test the unknown. Show me your evidence where you see BBK being “terrible” is it because he’s behind Barton on the depth chart? As stated above Sherman was a backup to someone “better” than him but that did not turn out to be reality.

You are correct on that neither of us know. I’ll say this, I trust the coaches more than either of our opinions. There is a chance that the coaches feel that Barton will learn from his errors and become better. BBK is a home town favorite so he is getting love here. Like another poster said, if it wasn’t for the UW connection this thread wouldn’t exist. The best thing will be Jordon Brooks returning from injury and keeping both Barton and BBK on ST. Appreciate your post.

 

[PNW]

So you’ve been happy with Barton? Cause I’ve been very disappointed, there’s no telling how well Kirvin would do until you get him out there, there’s lots of fast guys (not sure where you got BBK being slow from? 4.56 40yard) that are undersized succeeding in the NFL. As long as he can make a tackle or even hold onto someone until Wagner comes over to clean up he’s already doing better than Barton. Barton ran a 4.64 40yard for the record so he’s at least faster than that.

The answer to bad is not terrible.

I mean you mentioned Kirvin was lacking speed even though he’s quicker and faster than Barton. Reality is you actually have no clue if he’s worse or not, this is just your opinion at the same time I don’t know either, but what I do know is I see Barton failing his test so I’m open to new things. If Barton is “bad” right now it might be a time to test the unknown. Show me your evidence where you see BBK being “terrible” is it because he’s behind Barton on the depth chart? As stated above Sherman was a backup to someone “better” than him but that did not turn out to be reality.

You are correct on that neither of us know. I’ll say this, I trust the coaches more than either of our opinions. There is a chance that the coaches feel that Barton will learn from his errors and become better. BBK is a home town favorite so he is getting love here. Like another poster said, if it wasn’t for the UW connection this thread wouldn’t exist. The best thing will be Jordon Brooks returning from injury and keeping both Barton and BBK on ST. Appreciate your post.

Yes no doubt Jordyn Brooks is the best option and hopefully he can stay healthy! No hard feelings haha I’m all for everyone having strong opinions! Go Hawks!!!

 

[oldhawkfan]

Why are we not talking about Shaquem ahead of Barton? Yes, he looked really bad in his first start of his first game his rookie year. He was inexperienced and overwhelmed. This is year 3. Now the guy knows the scheme and has started to show his chops in limited action.

 

[Smellyman]

Pointed out already, but enough with he is slow. He has plenty of speed.


fyi - KJ Wright ran a 4.75 40. Much more than just speed makes a player.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And there's a huge difference between 40 times and actual game speed. People should actually know this.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I don't think BBK is an every down NFL linebacker. 6'0" and 230 lbs is going to get washed out all the time.

He is really a core special teams guy, but "maybe" they can work on him being a hybrid safety or a pass rush specialist? I don't know... I still think it was an odd draft choice.

 

[Osprey]

I don't think BBK is an every down NFL linebacker. 6'0" and 230 lbs is going to get washed out all the time.

He is really a core special teams guy, but "maybe" they can work on him being a hybrid safety or a pass rush specialist? I don't know... I still think it was an odd draft choice.

Stud special teamer with potential to play hybrid sub packages seems worth a 5th.

 

[PNW]

Why are we not talking about Shaquem ahead of Barton? Yes, he looked really bad in his first start of his first game his rookie year. He was inexperienced and overwhelmed. This is year 3. Now the guy knows the scheme and has started to show his chops in limited action.

I’m loving what I see outa Shaquem! Yes I trust him over Barton at this point in time, he is undersized so I guess you’d have similar concerns like with BBK, I’m not saying he was the answer, but I do think if Barton keeps missing tackles eventually someone will rise above him on the depth chart.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I don't think BBK is an every down NFL linebacker. 6'0" and 230 lbs is going to get washed out all the time.

He is really a core special teams guy, but "maybe" they can work on him being a hybrid safety or a pass rush specialist? I don't know... I still think it was an odd draft choice.

Stud special teamer with potential to play hybrid sub packages seems worth a 5th.

Debatable, but probably true. I'm not sure I'm ready to go with "stud" special teamer, either. Need to see a lot more impact plays.