After This Season

[Sgt. Largent]

Our whiffs seem to be WR and RB's, we know we go after projects or take flyers on guys we think we can adapt as far as linemen, I think with Lineman we need to draft those that fit now versus needing to develop.

I'd hardly call Tate, Baldwin and now Lockett and Richardson whiffs.

Our scheme doesn't exactly allow any WR in Seattle to break out with huge stats and production.

And talk to any team, WR is probably the hardest position to draft, there's been more top 10 WR busts than any other position.

 

[massari]

What cap problems?

Seahawks have the 14th most cap space available in 2016.


Guys like Bruce Irvin, Jermaine Kearse, and J.R. Sweezy already have replacements in the pipeline in Kevin Pierre-Louis Paul Richardson, and Mark Glowinski.

ERFAs Marcus Burley, Mohammed Seisay, Cooper Helfet, Chris Matthews, Steven Terrell, and David King can be re-signed for the league minimum if we want them.

There are another ~10 guys on this list who can probably be re-signed for pretty close to the league minimum.

It will be interesting to see what they do at LT and base NT. They should have at least $20 million to work with, and maybe even more, as one projection had the cap rising to as much as $160 million in 2016.

This makes me feel way better about it because I thought it was $143M, but that's this season. :34853_doh:

Also way less dead money next year with Williams looking like the only major hit.

 

[massari]

Nope, we've clearly identified a 3-4 year window. We're all-in. There is no rebuilding at this point, only retooling. IMO Bennett is one of the 5 best DE's in the NFL, and you don't let a guy like that walk in the middle of your championship window, especially if his salary isn't overly cumbersome. Having an extra DE is a great thing, ask the Giants. Not having enough DE's could potentially be a game-changer.

Okung is the hardest decision. He plays the second most important position on the team, is our best pass-blocker ten times over. if you think we have protection issues now, wait until we have a turnstyle at LT. I don't know that we can afford to pay him, but I also don't know that we can afford not to.

But if they trade Bennett, they'd likely get a 1st or 2nd round pick where they can select a DE to take his place alongside Frank Clark. They can then use Bennett's money to upgrade the OL. Or they could sign a younger FA DE like Muhammed Wilkerson (if affordable), trade Bennett and use that pick towards the OL.

 

[Basis4day]

What cap problems?

Seahawks have the 14th most cap space available in 2016.


Guys like Bruce Irvin, Jermaine Kearse, and J.R. Sweezy already have replacements in the pipeline in Kevin Pierre-Louis Paul Richardson, and Mark Glowinski.

ERFAs Marcus Burley, Mohammed Seisay, Cooper Helfet, Chris Matthews, Steven Terrell, and David King can be re-signed for the league minimum if we want them.

There are another ~10 guys on this list who can probably be re-signed for pretty close to the league minimum.

It will be interesting to see what they do at LT and base NT. They should have at least $20 million to work with, and maybe even more, as one projection had the cap rising to as much as $160 million in 2016.

This makes me feel way better about it because I thought it was $143M, but that's this season. :34853_doh:

Also way less dead money with Williams looking like the only major hit.

Most of William's gteed money only affects this season. After this season he can be cut with 2.3 Million in dead money and cap savings of 3.8 since his base salary is 5 million.

 

[chris98251]

Our whiffs seem to be WR and RB's, we know we go after projects or take flyers on guys we think we can adapt as far as linemen, I think with Lineman we need to draft those that fit now versus needing to develop.

I'd hardly call Tate, Baldwin and now Lockett and Richardson whiffs.

Our scheme doesn't exactly allow any WR in Seattle to break out with huge stats and production.

And talk to any team, WR is probably the hardest position to draft, there's been more top 10 WR busts than any other position.

The two classes above were Norwood, Richardson and Harper, it wasn't overall.

 

[brimsalabim]

I'd say the first name on that list that we need to hold on to is Jon Ryan.
I'd love to keep Bain and Baldwin too.
I'm unsure about Okung. Would he be willing to take a cut so that we can afford to bring in a capable replacement? He will probably want to look around. Protecting a QB that is a statue would probably be much easier on his legs. So if he was to leave by choice what would we do?
I think we hold on to Sweezy because we went to the trouble of coaching him up.

 

[Hawkpower]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

Right?

Yeah, lets get rid of our best and most productive receiving asset.

No thank you.

 

[massari]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

He's on pace for about 800 yards, 4 TD's and not known for being a great blocker. That's not worth 10M per season imo. Unless they figure out how to get him involved more consistently, especially in the red zone, I think this team would be better off trading him for a 1st and putting his money towards the OL.

 

[hawknation2015]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

He's on pace for about 800 yards and 4 TD's and not known for being a great blocker. That's not worth 10M per season imo. Unless they figure out how to get him involved more consistently, especially in the red zone, I think this team would be better off trading him for a 1st and putting his money towards the OL.

He has an $8 million cap hit this year and $9 million cap hit next year -- $8.5 million per year.

The Top 16 receivers all make over $9 million per year:
http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/2016/

Based on his value and skill set, I agree that Graham should be featured more at Split End . . . as a WR.

 

[massari]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

He's on pace for about 800 yards and 4 TD's and not known for being a great blocker. That's not worth 10M per season imo. Unless they figure out how to get him involved more consistently, especially in the red zone, I think this team would be better off trading him for a 1st and putting his money towards the OL.

He has an $8 million cap hit this year and $9 million cap hit next year -- $8.5 million per year.

The Top 16 receivers all make over $9 million per year:
http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/2016/

Based on his value and skill set, I agree that Graham should be featured more at Split End . . . as a WR.

He makes 10M in 2017, so 9M per year.

If they continue to not use him enough and he finishes with around 800 yards and 4TD's per season until his contract is up, do you think he's worth spending that much money on? Especially with the issues at OL?

 

[hawknation2015]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

He's on pace for about 800 yards and 4 TD's and not known for being a great blocker. That's not worth 10M per season imo. Unless they figure out how to get him involved more consistently, especially in the red zone, I think this team would be better off trading him for a 1st and putting his money towards the OL.

He has an $8 million cap hit this year and $9 million cap hit next year -- $8.5 million per year.

The Top 16 receivers all make over $9 million per year:
http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/2016/

Based on his value and skill set, I agree that Graham should be featured more at Split End . . . as a WR.

He makes 10M in 2017, so 9M per year.

If they continue to not use him enough and he finishes with around 800 yards and 4TD's per season until his contract is up, do you think he's worth spending that much money on? Especially with the issues at OL?

One year at a time. I would hate to think they would underutilize him to that extent for the rest of the season.

 

[netskier]

Me too, but the past is the best predictor of the future.

 

[HawkerD]

Its time to make some early (and late) draft pick payoff. 2013 and 2014 were basically busts, especially when you consider the Harvin debacle. We have seen the formula and it is get big returns on player during there first contract so that you can shore up weak spots with free agents. Right now we don't have any cheap starters worth a crap except for T. Lockett.

2013
RB Christine Michael*
DT Jordan Hill
WR Chris Harper*
DT Jesse Williams*
CB Tharold Simon
TE Luke Willson
RB Spencer Ware*
G Ryan Seymour*
LB Ty Powell*
G Jared Smith*
T Michael Bowie*


2014
WR Paul Richardson
T Justin Britt
DE Cassius Marsh
WR Kevin Norwood*
LB Kevin Pierre-Louis
DT Jimmy Staten*
T Garrett Scott*
CB Eric Pinkins*
FB Kiero Small*
* signifies a player no longer with the team


I would have to say evaluating those drafts today, they are huge Busts. Although some have exhibited moments of brilliance, none of them could be called an impact player. I think we got a bit on track in 2015 with Frank & Lockett but the rest of them are questionable. I know it is not easy but more consistency and fewer chances on flyers is needed.

A lot of people were using the excuse that there was so much talent ahead of those players, how can we know whether they are good? Frank Clark is an example of the fact that guys do not have to play a lot to know they have the potential to be good players.

* Kevin Pierre-Louis will likely be starting next year at Will. He has shown a lot of improvement in pass coverage.

* Jordan Hill will likely be starting at the three technique. He has shown a lot of improvement against the run.

* Paul Richardson will likely be starting at flanker in place of Jermaine Kearse next year.

* Luke Willson has improved his hands and blocking this season. He will continue to be a valuable backup.

* Justin Britt continues to improve as a starter at guard this year. However, I could also see him moving back to RT if Okung is not re-signed.

* Cassius Marsh and Tharold Simon are wildcards. Marsh has not really impressed me as a pass rusher, but he could see his reps increase in the nickel if Irvin is not re-signed. Simon has been valuable when healthy, but he has rarely been healthy.

* From the 2015 class, I expect a lot of starters: Tyler Lockett, Frank Clark, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Tye Smith, etc. In terms of raw talent (and health), that is looking like a really nice draft so far.

Thank you for proving my point. Exactly zero Impact players from those two draft classes thus far. A few serviceable NFL players at best. That definitely shortens the championship window. I get we have had late picks but our 1st rounder can be the equivalent as a cellar dwellers 2nd and there are plenty of impact players in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. The Hawks took flyers on CMike, PRich, Marsh, Harper, etc instead of getting lower risk, game 1 ready players.

 

[Hawkpower]

He's still our best receiver and has to be accounted for by defensive coordinators.

We also are a run heavy offense and thus his stats won't look as gaudy. Doesnt mean he isnt worth it.

 

[Sports Hernia]

What cap problems?

Seahawks have the 14th most cap space available in 2016.



Here is our list of free agents:


Guys like Bruce Irvin, Jermaine Kearse, and J.R. Sweezy already have replacements in the pipeline in Kevin Pierre-Louis Paul Richardson, and Mark Glowinski.

ERFAs Marcus Burley, Mohammed Seisay, Cooper Helfet, Chris Matthews, Steven Terrell, and David King can be re-signed for the league minimum if we want them.

There are another ~10 guys on this list who can probably be re-signed for pretty close to the league minimum.

It will be interesting to see what they do at LT and base NT. They should have at least $20 million to work with, and maybe even more, as one projection had the cap rising to as much as $160 million in 2016.

Yep, lots of dead money coming off the books next year. :th2thumbs:

 

[Sports Hernia]

Lol we're not getting rid of Graham, point blank.

Don't know why you guys want to so bad, it's so puzzling.

He's on pace for about 800 yards, 4 TD's and not known for being a great blocker. That's not worth 10M per season imo. Unless they figure out how to get him involved more consistently, especially in the red zone, I think this team would be better off trading him for a 1st and putting his money towards the OL.

Therein lies the rub. USE HIM CORRECTLY. Line him up wider and use him like NO did. It's not the rocket science that some want to make folks believe it is.

 

[Laloosh]

One year at a time. I would hate to think they would underutilize him to that extent for the rest of the season.

Seems like one thing that is lost on a few people. Wilson and Graham are both still young. People act like we cut and re-pick our team at the end of every season.

These two will be a nightmare for teams over the next couple of seasons (in my opinion).

 

[hawknation2015]

Its time to make some early (and late) draft pick payoff. 2013 and 2014 were basically busts, especially when you consider the Harvin debacle. We have seen the formula and it is get big returns on player during there first contract so that you can shore up weak spots with free agents. Right now we don't have any cheap starters worth a crap except for T. Lockett.

2013
RB Christine Michael*
DT Jordan Hill
WR Chris Harper*
DT Jesse Williams*
CB Tharold Simon
TE Luke Willson
RB Spencer Ware*
G Ryan Seymour*
LB Ty Powell*
G Jared Smith*
T Michael Bowie*


2014
WR Paul Richardson
T Justin Britt
DE Cassius Marsh
WR Kevin Norwood*
LB Kevin Pierre-Louis
DT Jimmy Staten*
T Garrett Scott*
CB Eric Pinkins*
FB Kiero Small*
* signifies a player no longer with the team


I would have to say evaluating those drafts today, they are huge Busts. Although some have exhibited moments of brilliance, none of them could be called an impact player. I think we got a bit on track in 2015 with Frank & Lockett but the rest of them are questionable. I know it is not easy but more consistency and fewer chances on flyers is needed.

A lot of people were using the excuse that there was so much talent ahead of those players, how can we know whether they are good? Frank Clark is an example of the fact that guys do not have to play a lot to know they have the potential to be good players.

* Kevin Pierre-Louis will likely be starting next year at Will. He has shown a lot of improvement in pass coverage.

* Jordan Hill will likely be starting at the three technique. He has shown a lot of improvement against the run.

* Paul Richardson will likely be starting at flanker in place of Jermaine Kearse next year.

* Luke Willson has improved his hands and blocking this season. He will continue to be a valuable backup.

* Justin Britt continues to improve as a starter at guard this year. However, I could also see him moving back to RT if Okung is not re-signed.

* Cassius Marsh and Tharold Simon are wildcards. Marsh has not really impressed me as a pass rusher, but he could see his reps increase in the nickel if Irvin is not re-signed. Simon has been valuable when healthy, but he has rarely been healthy.

* From the 2015 class, I expect a lot of starters: Tyler Lockett, Frank Clark, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Tye Smith, etc. In terms of raw talent (and health), that is looking like a really nice draft so far.

Thank you for proving my point. Exactly zero Impact players from those two draft classes thus far. A few serviceable NFL players at best. That definitely shortens the championship window. I get we have had late picks but our 1st rounder can be the equivalent as a cellar dwellers 2nd and there are plenty of impact players in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. The Hawks took flyers on CMike, PRich, Marsh, Harper, etc instead of getting lower risk, game 1 ready players.

Yeah, those two years were way below the quality of all the other classes in the Carroll era.

But still, that's three likely starters and one quality backup from the 2014 class and one likely starter and two quality backups from the 2013 class, a down year that was terrible for pretty much everyone.

One argument that I do think is valid is that they gambled a little more in 2013 because the team was already so deep and the quality of some of the best known players in that class was so weak.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

What's with all of this "trade Bennett" talk? Someone's a "quart low" IMO!

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

This thread hurts my brain. A few points.

Bennett is making half what he should make. No one would give us anywhere near a high enough pick to make it worthwhile to trade him.

We are also more hard up for cap space than people realize. We have 23m in cap space and we have to sign 19 players to get to the 53 man roster.