Any difference in Wilson's pocket stance?

[toffee]

Wilson '15-'17 Quarter by Quarter. Our Russ's TD > Int in all quarters, our Russ excelled in 4th, downright superman in 4th within 7 points. Come to think of it, '17 may be one of his finest year, playing with zero running game and an difunctional OL.

 

[hawknation2018]

I place a lot of blame for the early quarter struggles on the former OC’s erratic play calling, forcing Russell to takeover and make magic happen in the 4th quarter of games. But I guess we will see how much the consistency and offensive flow improve under a new play caller.

 

[Seymour]

Wilson is only second highest all time in QB Rating, but is “wildly inconsistent”. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.

Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.

He's talking about the first three quarters in 2017, Seymour, not Wilson's overall stats for the year.

Even the first 3 quarters is 15 to 10. Not exactly "almost as many" at +50%. :177692: People that exaggerate or distort the facts to prove their point lose the argument in my book.

 

[toffee]

You just glossed over everything I said. I said at first glace he looks like the model of consistency, but when you go at look at his game on a quarter by quarter basis things start falling apart. Last season he threw for almost as many INT as TDs, and had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters. This has largely been the case throughout his career save for 2015. THAT is inconsistency and this is something that is unique to Russ. The likes of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc do not have this kind of struggle.

The rope a dope style of play is not ideal. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I'm saying there is still more room for improvement. I'm also saying implying that he needs to start thinking about evolving his style as he ages.

Dude you need to check your "facts". If you want to be taken serious you should get the facts straight about your teams starting QB. Last season Wilson had 34 TD and 11 ints. Nowhere near "almost as many". :roll:

You wanna throw out stuff like that then we may as well scratch the entire post as far as I'm concerned.

He's talking about the first three quarters in 2017, Seymour, not Wilson's overall stats for the year.

Even the first 3 quarters is 15 to 10. Not exactly "almost as many" at +50%. :177692: People that exaggerate or distort the facts to prove their point lose the argument in my book.

Had Spin Doctor said "in first two quarters of last season, WIlson threw for almost as many INT as TDs," he would be almost factually correct: 4TD vs 3 INT per quarter for the '17 season, off by 25% lol. He was correct in "had two quarters below 60 percent completion in his first three quarters." that would be 1st quarters 58% and 3rd quarters 58.3%.

To me, the intriguing thing was sacks in 4th quarter vs the first three quarters. It was like either the OL flipped a switch in 4th, or more likely Wilson just made quicker decisions and throws in 4th.

 

[adeltaY]

I think he just got mixed up with his wording. In the first two quarters, wilson had 8 TD and 6 INT - that's what he was looking at. I don't think he was intentionally making anything up.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think he just got mixed up with his wording. In the first two quarters, wilson had 8 TD and 6 INT - that's what he was looking at. I don't think he was intentionally making anything up.

Yeah, it is. I often time forget to proof read my post before commenting.

As for my comments about Russell, I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he is uneven, and I'm saying that can be fixed. How he needs to play is how he was playing this preseason. Quick decision making and text book fundamentals. This is how he played in 2015 and that is when he was at his best. My main premise is that Russ still has a lot of room for an improvement. If he cashes in on his potential, all of this talk about Brady being the best will all of the sudden be who is second to Russell? I'm seeing a lot his potential being left on the table due to bad coaching.

The main thing I'm getting at here is that what Schottenheimer is preaching is just what Russ needs to take the next step as a player. It is something that has been overlooked by Bevell, and our QB coach. It will make him more consistent, and public enemy number one in the NFL. I'm already seeing some dividends even in one preseason game.

 

[NINEster]

Read in a recent article that Schotty wants him to stop and survey the field at the end of his drop back.

Huh? Hope he didn’t say that because it has been decades since NFL offenses have worked like that.

I’m generally against messing with QBs mechanics.

Unless it was Kaepernick's.

 

[NINEster]

I read that Duane Brown was shouting at Russ after one play a few days ago. Between Duane and Doug, one can assume that Russ had some issues, hoping with help from teammates and new OC, Russ can improve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Duane got in Russ's face on several occasions last season. As I keep saying, Russ makes Duane's job really hard to do. He really needs to work on his pocket movement to bring his game up to the next level.

And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?

Old habits die hard.

Stick with what works. 161 TD passes in 6 seasons without great pocket presence?

Don't change a thing.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Duane got in Russ's face on several occasions last season. As I keep saying, Russ makes Duane's job really hard to do. He really needs to work on his pocket movement to bring his game up to the next level.

And what if he doesn't? Better flush RW and keep everyone else and just hope you hit on whatever replacement you cobble together despite the trail of sorrow left by the vast majority of QBs who enter the league? Better hope you didn't whiff on nearly every RB since Marshawn left, been stingy with retaining WRs, been comically inept with OL talent, somehow misuse a player and lose that players head when he was a bonafide stud when playing in an offensive scheme that were suited to their talents...

He's already in the 90th percentile of QBs by almost any metric of your choosing. So you want specific instance betterness in like 5-10% of plays run? We all do but my goodness you're pining for a QB that hits like 80% of their attempts (and no points for throwing screens here)

I want a QB that is consistent, that is what all of this work that Schottenheimer is doing with him is all about. Consistency. Something that Russ has severely lacked. Last season he was legendary in the fourth quarter, but he was horrid in every other. In his first three quarters last season he threw almost as many picks, as touchdowns, and in 2/4 of the quarters he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. In the first quarter it is particularly bad at 57 percent. Our offenses inability to produce until the last quarter was a huge issue last season. Did the lack of a running game, and line play a part? Absolutely. Did Russ play a part in that as well? You betcha.

Russell Wilson does not know how to manipulate the pocket, and his footwork can get sloppy a times even with no pressure. His default is to back pedal, which makes the job of any lineman significantly harder. The reason why stepping up into the pocket is a thing, is it allows lineman to use the momentum of an edge rusher against them. One of the fundamental techniques is redirection. With Russ at QB that is not an option most of the time. Now --- he is able to get away with this when most QB's wouldn't because he is one of the most elusive QB's to ever put on cleats. He also has the uncanny ability to throw accurately from strange positions. Russ is the only QB that could get away with back peddling.

So why does it matter if its been working for him might you ask? Russ's style is feast or famine. He'll pop off, and get long bomb after long bomb, or he will not be able to get out of his own way, and miss open receivers because his back is to them. Schottenheimer is trying to find a way to intermingle Russ's unique abilities with traditional QB play. This is an evolution he will have to make if he plans on playing in the league for an extended duration. We got a taste of what this looks like in 2015. I have no doubts in my mind that he could look like that every year if he refined his quarterback play.

The scary thing is, Russell Wilson is still very rough around the edges. Imagine what he could be if he is ever able to refine his game? Brady who?

Old habits die hard.

Stick with what works. 161 TD passes in 6 seasons without great pocket presence?

Don't change a thing.

Other QB's have done it, QB's that made a name for themselves as mobile Quarterbacks even. The one season he really focused in on that aspect of his game he was at his best. It is a skill that doesn't degrade with age, or injury.

 

[SpokaneHawks]

Baldwin's always been outspoken and when things arent going well he let's it be known. That's OK, it's his way of motivating the offense. As far as the fans that throw shade at Wilson and call him inconsistent, Where were you before the Russell Wilson era? And, do you actually watch football? Russ's slow starts and miraculous comebacks are legendary and designed that way! Pete's entire coaching philosophy revolves around keeping it close and having a chance at the end. Guess what? It's worked more often than not! The seahawks are the second or third most successful team since like 2012. That's pretty good company! Jesus, I hope the bandwagon clears out soon so I can get tickets in lower level seats again.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Baldwin's always been outspoken and when things arent going well he let's it be known. That's OK, it's his way of motivating the offense. As far as the fans that throw shade at Wilson and call him inconsistent, Where were you before the Russell Wilson era? And, do you actually watch football? Russ's slow starts and miraculous comebacks are legendary and designed that way! Pete's entire coaching philosophy revolves around keeping it close and having a chance at the end. Guess what? It's worked more often than not! The seahawks are the second or third most successful team since like 2012. That's pretty good company! Jesus, I hope the bandwagon clears out soon so I can get tickets in lower level seats again.

Not a chance bro. The Griffen family and all of central Florida has moved in. :sarcasm_off:

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I interpreted Doug's comments as untapped potential in Russ vs throwing shade at him. I took at him saying how much better he could have been prior to now, based on how he was coached. There's been stories in the past how even some of the best QBs got better under different coaches. I recall hearing that when Holmgren first teamed up with Montana.

Yeah I think Russ tried to do too much last year and bailed out of the pocket early at times or took a loss etc rather than just throwing it away. With better protection and new coaching that might go away. I thought of that even on the TD pass last night where when pressure came up the middle he rolled right immediately looking downfield and wondered if last year he would have done the spin move, kept backing up etc.

 

[hawk45]

The main thing I'm getting at here is that what Schottenheimer is preaching is just what Russ needs to take the next step as a player. It is something that has been overlooked by Bevell, and our QB coach. It will make him more consistent, and public enemy number one in the NFL. I'm already seeing some dividends even in one preseason game.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised - perhaps I'm naive - that a comment about Russ being inconsistent within games is receiving such a backlash. We all love Russ, believe he's a huge part of our successes, and wouldn't trade him, but "high-variance" as Popeye repeatedly describes him seems pretty apt. He very rarely falls apart to the tune of multiple interceptions, but quite frequently just cannot manage to do anything early in games.

I attribute a lot of this to crappy lines and coaching. So if we have a coach who is focused on keeping the offensive production more constant - there will be bad quarters of course - that's a good thing.

So count me in as thinking that if Schottenheimer sees Russ with clear eyes and knows how to address his shortcomings we could be in for even more of a treat.

 

[mikeak]

Wilson '15-'17 Quarter by Quarter. Our Russ's TD > Int in all quarters, our Russ excelled in 4th, downright superman in 4th within 7 points. Come to think of it, '17 may be one of his finest year, playing with zero running game and an difunctional OL.

2016 -- 1st 1 has 1TD and 0 Int's so he sucks right?

Look at the completion percentage compared to the other quarters........

way better

Is it possible that playcalling which we have all complained about was a reason for why his stats looks like they do?

 

[mikeak]

I ignore the last few words in Doug's statement and interpret it as

How good we could have been if people that are paid to work with players actually did their freaking job and taught him how to take things to the next level. Then RW would have been able to do so and we would have been way better

I don't read it as anything against RW. He is just stating that RW didn't follow some basic fundamentals which is interesting because all we heard is how much film he watched. Well if the coaches and the players aren't on the same page it doesn't translate to improvements

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I read this as Doug just full of himself. Laying another egg for attention. That's all!! He never spoke to why he started the fight with Percy either.

 

[Uncle Si]

I ignore the last few words in Doug's statement and interpret it as

How good we could have been if people that are paid to work with players actually did their freaking job and taught him how to take things to the next level. Then RW would have been able to do so and we would have been way better

I don't read it as anything against RW. He is just stating that RW didn't follow some basic fundamentals which is interesting because all we heard is how much film he watched. Well if the coaches and the players aren't on the same page it doesn't translate to improvements

Thats how i read it as well... not everything has to have layers, inferences and drama. sometimes its as clear as "statement 1... taking notice of new coaches and work they're doing with QB"... "statement 2... imagine how good QB couldve been had he got this coaching earlier."

and certainly RW can get better. There should not be any argument there. Seems Baldwin is stating he now has coaches that will help with that.

 

[mrt144]

I read this as Doug just full of himself. Laying another egg for attention. That's all!! He never spoke to why he started the fight with Percy either.

Cause Percy was a terrible teammate? A cancer? :lol:

 

[nrayorr]

I do think he had a better stance and stood his ground with exception to a couple of plays where he ran the ball himself. Overall he did well.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I do think he had a better stance and stood his ground with exception to a couple of plays where he ran the ball himself. Overall he did well.

A clean pocket will do wonders for a QB.