SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
And his ridiculous ability to make the right choices in the 4th quarter and overtime. Better than most in football.
MarylandHawk":efjpz7d3 said:The genius behind Wilson's many rollouts are that they completely wear down defensive lines, hence his many 4th quarter comebacks.... Notice how little gas opposing DLs seem to have after chasing this guy around for three quarters....
MarylandHawk":1m41zhpt said:The genius behind Wilson's many rollouts are that they completely wear down defensive lines, hence his many 4th quarter comebacks.... Notice how little gas opposing DLs seem to have after chasing this guy around for three quarters....
IrishNW":3bwee7xs said:original poster":3bwee7xs said:Seymour":3bwee7xs said:He sure as hell would not take Stafford if he saw him behind this oline the last 2-3 years.
That budget oline helps pay for our top 5 D (when they played to full potential), so "his Stafford" has to play against our D to make that a reasonable comparison.
Very good point.
I honesty can't think of a single QB that could perform as good, or better, than Wilson behind the current OL (prior to them getting it together the last few weeks).
brady, manning or rodgers would do just fine. They actually use quick throws to mitigate the pass rush and make their o-line look better.
A double edged sword is a perfect description of what RW is right now. I think Kurt Warner once said that he hopes Wilson learns to not make it so hard on himself.
My only question is, will Wilson be-able to correct this problem? or do we need a guru offensive coordinator that can help mitigate this. I personally and I think alot of people want to see a change at coordinator. Maybe Bevel hasn't actually been that bad (personally i think he sucks) but its time for some new blood.
Seymour":2s2f3o3m said:No way in hell on that. Plus our oline comes with our o- coordinator.
FidelisHawk":z8y8lbf1 said:I like how the preconceived notion that Wilson is too short to play in the NFL always follows the the explanation why he’ll never be a great QB.
Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell has one of the hardest jobs in football. He doesn’t know where his guy with the ball will be. And he can’t ask Wilson to change. Wilson, the most dynamic sandlot quarterback of his generation, is merely playing the hand he was dealt. God made him 5' 11". People like to say that doesn’t matter (Wilson proves his doubters wrong!). It does matter. A 5' 11" man cannot always see over 6' 5" offensive linemen or 6' 3" defensive linemen with outstretched arms. With Wilson, it’s evident every week on film. And so the 5' 11" man must move around and create new lines of vision. Drew Brees, at 6-foot, has mastered this in New Orleans. He does it from the pocket. Wilson, with tremendous athleticism and an uncanny ability to make strong throws on the move (right or left), does it by running around. So the difference is, with Brees a coach can draw plays the same way he would for a traditional QB. Brees’s platform and launching point change by a matter of inches and feet. Wilson’s change by a matter of yards. Many, many yards.
Popeyejones":2238iego said:Seymour":2238iego said:No way in hell on that. Plus our oline comes with our o- coordinator.
IMO people DRAMATICALLY underestimate the effect of a QB on perceptions of offensive lines and their effectiveness pass blocking.
When Manning was on the Colts everyone thought he benefited from an O-line that pass blocked really well, and that he would be done in by a Broncos O-line that didn't.
Then he moved and everyone talked about how the Colts O-line (the same players!) were disasters in pass blocking, and the Broncos "became" one of the best pass blocking O-lines in football.
It's the same deal with the Saints, who supposedly always have an amazing O-line with great pass blockers, but as soon as those guys sign big money FA contracts with other teams every single one of them magically flames out.
Even this year it's the same deal with the 9ers. While Beathard was starting everyone talked about how the O-line was a total disaster, and since JG has been starting these last two games people are now talking about how the O-line has magically done a good job in pass-pro of protecting him.
This is, of course, absolute and total nonsense. Beathard got credit for being "tough enough" to take shots in the chin over and over again but NOBODY talked about how he doesn't feel pressure well, processes slowly like most rookie QBs, and was taking shots in the chin over and over again due to his own deficiencies at feeling pressure and moving around in the pocket. JG on the other hand, feels pressure and slide/adjusts really well.
The 9ers pass blocking magically didn't get better over night. If anything it has gotten worse since JG came in because their best pass blocking O-lineman (Trent Brown) has been out the last two weeks, and a big turd pile who Hawks fans know well (Gary Gilliam) has been starting in his place and pass blocking like crap.
Nobody wants to talk about any of this though, because they insist on it just being about the O-line.
We watch a different game. Ifedi by himself allows more than 2 instant pressure whiffs alone. Also it's going to take time for Wilson to get used to brown protecting him. He has been conditioned to expect pressure early and often so in time I expect him to get a little more comfortable and more patient. Also I could be wrong but I think the offense has gotten better since his arrival? They just gave the #1 defense in the league their worst defensive performance.MontanaHawk05":3cephkt5 said:rossob":3cephkt5 said:I think that the Oline Russell needs is just one which doesn't let guys get to him in a second and doesn't collapse on all sides. Most of the time Wilson is able to get out of it if just some part collapses and he does have enough time to get away. Imo having a good pass blocking line would be a complete waste on Russell as long as he's able to run around the way he still does.MontanaHawk05":3cephkt5 said:Scorpion05":3cephkt5 said:Not to say he never does, but he mostly does it to escape pressure. Otherwise, he does try to remain within the confines of the offense
I would argue it's closer to 50/50. I notice a LOT of plays where Wilson takes off for absolutely no reason.
That's why Duane Brown's epic few-pressures-allowed performance for us thus far hasn't suddenly improved the offense like people were expecting. Call it height, call it receivers not getting loose, call it he just likes being outside the pocket, but the OL was never the primary driver of our problems.
That said, Stafford will never sniff a Super Bowl.
Good run blocking would be nice though.
Very few route trees require more than 3 seconds to run. The Packers' WR's train to begin their scramble drill 2.8 seconds after the snap. That means that an offensive line's job is done after about 3 seconds, after which the fault is no longer on them.
If you watch Seattle's pass protection over the years armed with that piece of knowledge, you'd be surprised how often Seattle's line actually gets the job done. No, they can't provide Wilson with 7 seconds like Romo's line did. But if the OC, WRs, and QB were doing their job, they wouldn't have to.
The plays where Seattle's line gets immediately punctured are much lesser in quantity. They happen twice or thrice a game. I think the games where they happened the most were against the Calais Campbell Cardinals, and admittedly, those games were nightmares of instant slicing penetration.
Stone you're 100% and Benoit is being contrarian for the sake of it. Shocked people are taking him seriously. I'll say it again....There isn't a team in the league who would take Stafford over Wilson. Not one.Popeyejones":1yia6l4q said:StoneCold":1yia6l4q said:I also don't buy that Wilson makes Bevell's job harder. It's the other way around if you ask me.
I think what Benoit gets right is that on any given play it can be one or the other.
Long story short, I basically agree with Benoit that Wilson is both an MVP candidate, and a guy who, on a play-by-play basis, many OCs wouldn't prefer over Stafford. (see below for why I think he's picking Stafford)
The great Scot Mccloughan said as much about a month ago, saying Wilson is an incredibly special QB, but not a guy you want dropping back to pass 30 times a game.
To be totally honest, Wilson is the most high-variance QB I've ever seen in the NFL, and that's because of his weird mix of amazing talent and his style of play. It's why he goes through stretches (be it halves, or across strings of games) where he looks like the best QB in the history of the NFL (which is also reflected in stats), and stretches where he looks like a bottom quarter starting QB (which is also reflected in stats).
Basically, on any given play Wilson can bail out everyone around him and spin straw into gold, or make life hell for everyone around him and spin gold into straw. Because he's so talented you get more of the former than the latter (which is what makes him a legitimate MVP candidate), but when you watch the All-22 (which I do for probably only 3 or 4 Hawks games a year) he can also be really maddening. He's legitimately harder to pass block for than any QB at the NFL level I've ever seen.
Long story short, Benoit is just saying what a ton of people have been saying for years. Dude's a legit MVP candidate, but if you've ever been an OC or O-line coach, he's also maddening.
ON STAFFORD: I think Benoit is picking Stafford because it's a little trollish to do so, but also sneakily kinda right too. Stafford has been much better than his reputation as a slightly above average QB for a couple years now, but unless you're a Lions fan there's no reason you would have noticed. Stafford has also kept the Lions offense functional and on schedule over the years despite playing with the worst run game in the NFL year in and year out (it's been 64 games since they've had a 100 yard rusher in a game -- this is a real stat [emoji38]), and really middling offensive weapons around him since Johnson retired (I love Tate, but he's no Baldwin -- their best pass catching threat is a solid #2 WR who is surrounded by nobody else).
austinslater25":3ofw49y6 said:Stone you're 100% and Benoit is being contrarian for the sake of it. Shocked people are taking him seriously. I'll say it again....There isn't a team in the league who would take Stafford over Wilson. Not one.
Have you seen Stafford's line this year? Football Outsiders has the Lions ranked as #32 overall in pass blocking (Seattle is 30th). And they are basically last place across the board in their various run-blocking metrics. Like Wilson, Stafford is accounting for a giant percentage of his teams' offensive output this year.Seymour":3kq6e00t said:He sure as hell would not take Stafford if he saw him behind this oline the last 2-3 years.
That budget oline helps pay for our top 5 D (when they played to full potential), so "his Stafford" has to play against our D to make that a reasonable comparison.
JimmyG":3u8w550t said:Have you seen Stafford's line this year? Football Outsiders has the Lions ranked as #32 overall in pass blocking (Seattle is 30th). And they are basically last place across the board in their various run-blocking metrics. Like Wilson, Stafford is accounting for a giant percentage of his teams' offensive output this year.Seymour":3u8w550t said:He sure as hell would not take Stafford if he saw him behind this oline the last 2-3 years.
That budget oline helps pay for our top 5 D (when they played to full potential), so "his Stafford" has to play against our D to make that a reasonable comparison.
IrishNW":2ec729qx said:original poster":2ec729qx said:Seymour":2ec729qx said:He sure as hell would not take Stafford if he saw him behind this oline the last 2-3 years.
That budget oline helps pay for our top 5 D (when they played to full potential), so "his Stafford" has to play against our D to make that a reasonable comparison.
Very good point.
I honesty can't think of a single QB that could perform as good, or better, than Wilson behind the current OL (prior to them getting it together the last few weeks).
brady, manning or rodgers would do just fine. They actually use quick throws to mitigate the pass rush and make their o-line look better.
A double edged sword is a perfect description of what RW is right now. I think Kurt Warner once said that he hopes Wilson learns to not make it so hard on himself.
My only question is, will Wilson be-able to correct this problem? or do we need a guru offensive coordinator that can help mitigate this. I personally and I think alot of people want to see a change at coordinator. Maybe Bevel hasn't actually been that bad (personally i think he sucks) but its time for some new blood.