c mike

[SonicHawk]

I like Turbin for what Turbin is, a good #2, COP back.

Jury is still out on Micheal, the guy has speed but he didn't really do anything special.

 

[hawknation2014]

I like Turbin for what Turbin is, a good #2, COP back.

If the change of pace you're looking for is going down on first contact, then I agree.

 

[AgentDib]

A few people here are making this sound like a divisive issue but it really isn't. CMike was a high draft pick of ours and as far as I have seen every last Hawks fan on this forum is rooting for him to do well when he is on the field and earn more playing time.

If you think a poster is anti-CMike the try re-reading their posts to see where they are coming from. It's possible to both want CMike to succeed here and also to think that the coaching staff knows what it is doing when it comes to RB playing time.

 

[bigwrm]

Sherm Smith pointed out a week or so ago that C-Mike can't switch hands as a ball carrier and thus lacks fundamental soundness as a runner. I think this is likely a big reason they've kept him off the field and may be why his ceiling is limited.

I went back and watched Michael's clips, and Smith was right. Michael only carries the ball right-handed. That means even when he’s running left side, he’s carrying the ball on the right and exposing it to more contact. What looks like a "tough luck" fumble may actually be a result of carrying the ball toward more defenders -- thus increasing the likelihood of a defender getting under the ball. By contrast, Lynch and Turbin switch hands fluidly depending on which side they’re running on. That being said, he's certainly a dynamic runner with good vision. However, on a Pete Carroll team, I wonder if an RB with this issue (which can't seem to be corrected) will ever be eligible to be a feature back.

Yeah I did the same thing as you and went back to watch clips of him. Always in the right hand. Are there other running backs that only carry the ball on one side? It's baffling to me that a professional running back is unable to comfortably run with the ball in both hands, especially seeing how easily Marshawn switches back and forth in the middle of a run. Just go back and watch his 67 yard Saints run. If he doesn't switch the ball to the outside, he never would have been able to give Tracy Porter the stiff arm from hell. Porter probably has nightmares about that stiff arm to this day.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Sherm Smith pointed out a week or so ago that C-Mike can't switch hands as a ball carrier and thus lacks fundamental soundness as a runner. I think this is likely a big reason they've kept him off the field and may be why his ceiling is limited.

I went back and watched Michael's clips, and Smith was right. Michael only carries the ball right-handed. That means even when he’s running left side, he’s carrying the ball on the right and exposing it to more contact. What looks like a "tough luck" fumble may actually be a result of carrying the ball toward more defenders -- thus increasing the likelihood of a defender getting under the ball. By contrast, Lynch and Turbin switch hands fluidly depending on which side they’re running on. That being said, he's certainly a dynamic runner with good vision. However, on a Pete Carroll team, I wonder if an RB with this issue (which can't seem to be corrected) will ever be eligible to be a feature back.

That and Aros wasn't kidding when he passed on info about Michael struggling to run where the blocks are - he really does pick random approaches.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Great game for Michael. I'm done with Turbin. I see no upside with him honestly

SMH..

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Seems like we have a lot of bi-polar posters here. Guys are either going to be the next great player or they suck. Take some xanax....just don't give it to your pet chimp.

Ding, ding... post of the week!

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Michael has shown over and over again that he can dominate against bad run defenses-- whether it be against second and third stringers during the preseason or the Giants' worst run defense in the NFL. I still very much question his potential to be an every-down back vs. a change-of-pace runner. I hope they draft a bell cow running back, who can replace Lynch's punishing style, and also complement Michael's scatback, boom-or-bust running style.

I think even a Pop-Warner RB can switch hands with the ball. That worries me.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wilson didn't throw for 600 yards, 5 touchdowns, and rush for 320.
He sucks........

Next week: Great game Russ, that's my boy...... :stirthepot:

 

[seahawk12thman]

He can catch the ball, why not use him similar to Percy Harvin?

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Sherm Smith pointed out a week or so ago that C-Mike can't switch hands as a ball carrier and thus lacks fundamental soundness as a runner. I think this is likely a big reason they've kept him off the field and may be why his ceiling is limited.

I went back and watched Michael's clips, and Smith was right. Michael only carries the ball right-handed. That means even when he’s running left side, he’s carrying the ball on the right and exposing it to more contact. What looks like a "tough luck" fumble may actually be a result of carrying the ball toward more defenders -- thus increasing the likelihood of a defender getting under the ball. By contrast, Lynch and Turbin switch hands fluidly depending on which side they’re running on. That being said, he's certainly a dynamic runner with good vision. However, on a Pete Carroll team, I wonder if an RB with this issue (which can't seem to be corrected) will ever be eligible to be a feature back.

Wow. Did our RB coach really say that because it seems too simple - minded.
Switching the ball in your hand doesn't always equate to ball security. Aren't there instances where switching the ball can lead to fumbling as well--i.e. Percy in 2009 Divisional playoff against Saints. That was a game marred with fumbles. It was also the year Adrian Peterson had fumbling issues because he was battling for yards and sometimes lost awareness of ball security. We know AD is a beast of a runner who regularly switches the ball to the outside arm and possesses one of the strongest grips in all of the NFL. AND yes he had fumbling issues early in his career.
Point is that ball security starts with awareness of the ball. When Lynch fumbled in this game it was because he had it secured in one arm while in traffic fending off tacklers. When RW fumbled he had it tight in the outside arm but got it punched from behind. Turbo seemed to have lost his ball going down on a tackle.
IMO Christine Michael has does hold it regularly in his right arm but has shown he can secure it with two hands in traffic. He's probably not comfortable switching the ball to his left but if he knows his left arm is less secure with it then why should he chance it?

 

[Ozzy]

I like Turbin for what Turbin is, a good #2, COP back.

Jury is still out on Micheal, the guy has speed but he didn't really do anything special.

So he didn't look impressive when he got the ball? He had 71 yards on 4 carries, can't do much better than that. Ironically Pete said he was impressed with Michael in the presser calling his burst "special". What more do people want him to do? High hurdle the O-Line? It's universally accepted league wide the guy has special physical traits for a running back with a couple of scouts calling him the best to enter the league in a decade. Pretty high praise from people not tied to the Seahawks. The jury is still out as we need to see him sustain it and prove it on the field. I just don't get all the skepticism.

Having Michael/Turbin as backups is a nice position to be in.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Turbin had a run yesterday where he plowed right through the pile for 5 or 6, and until I saw his number I thought it was Lynch. I thought at the time that he has come a long way from the slap-tackles he was going down on in his rookie year. Perhaps he is turning a corner?

Michael on the other hand annoys the hell out of me. Yes, he's a great athlete, but he won't turn it up field unless he sees an acre of green (See post-knee K.Warner/S.Alexander). Woo-hoo! He break big gains once in a while, but he's the only back on our team that gives up negative plays too.

Pair that with his ball security and matador blocking, and I'm glad he's only only on the field for a half dozen snaps. He needs more time to learn the game. ...million dollar talent, ten cent head.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Let's face it, Lynch has spoiled us for how we want our RB's to run.

I'm sure going to a two back attack with Turbin and C-Mike would be OK, but neither players come close to how nasty Lynch runs.......nor can set the tone for how the offense wants to play (or the entire team for that matter) like Marshawn does.

C-Mike showed some explosiveness, but he was also super tentative on contact a couple times............like he was just trying to not screw up once contact was initiated. Maybe he'll grow in confidence once he gets some more carries. But holy moly the drop off between Lynch and those two is eye popping.

 

[DavidSeven]

Wow. Did our RB coach really say that because it seems too simple - minded.
Switching the ball in your hand doesn't always equate to ball security. Aren't there instances where switching the ball can lead to fumbling as well--i.e. Percy in 2009 Divisional playoff against Saints.

[. . .]

IMO Christine Michael has does hold it regularly in his right arm but has shown he can secure it with two hands in traffic. He's probably not comfortable switching the ball to his left but if he knows his left arm is less secure with it then why should he chance it?

Source: https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/sta ... 8542485504

I think it goes without saying that Michael is probably less secure with his left hand and thus avoids switching for that reason. In an ideal world, however, I would imagine he'd be able to switch and secure with either hand. You see kids with no NFL talent do it at lower levels all the time. That being said, if he proves he can run securely with the ball consistently, then I'm sure no ones really going to care about how he does it. I'm just throwing out a theory as to why he may have been kept off the field for so long. I would guess that blocking is also still a concern.

Still, his explosiveness is certainly enticing. I like how they're mixing him in for now, and I liked that he was able to do something positive on that pitch-back play last week. I agree with the suggestion that he's more boom-or-bust than Turbin on any given play -- he might house one, he might get tackled for a 3 yard loss. Turbin is almost always good for positive yardage -- even if it's just a yard or two. Right now, however, we're definitely in need of playmakers, so if they can find ways to utilize Michael's speed (even for just a handful of plays), then I think our offense will probably be better for it. Turbin has really upped his play lately too though.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

I'm baffled that people keep implying they need to see more like he sucks. The guy flashed some special talent today and has when given the chance. Even a few of his third down conversion runs this year were extremely good runs. The guy is a special talent and fans should be excited we have a guy like that behind Lynch.

I've been as frustrated as anyone that he hasn't gotten on the field more but he's looked great when given the chance. I don't understand all the hate with him.

Ditto. Folks act like a bunch of friggin doubting Thomas's for no reason. C-Mike hasn't failed to impress any time he's been given the chance to play. The couple fumbles he's had have been disappointing, but at least 2 of them were brutally unlucky plays, not because he was being nonchalant with the ball. He runs with conviction, doesn't dance around behind the line, shows incredible burst, initiates the hit on defenders when he can't get around them, and finishes after contact.

Twice he put us at the goal line yesterday, and was pulled both times to give Lynch a shot to score (thankfully for my fantasy team). Often times when a guy makes an impressive run to get down to the 1, he's rewarded with one more shot to finish the job, but that didn't happen. I commented to my wife that I wondered if our coaching staff is purposefully testing him, trying to build up his patience, humility, and hunger, with the goal of rounding him into a complete and 'reliable' back. His physical talents and immense potential put him in rare air, but as we saw with Percy, that's not enough to become a player your team can rely on. Pete challenged his maturity last year, but I haven't heard that this year. If he is being tested, I hope he passes with flying colors.

In contrast, no back on our team is more committed or works harder than Turbin. He is trusted because he can be counted on to give everything he has at all times. He'll never pout, check out, or pull himself from the game, like the aforementioned Percy. It is clear he doesn't have the talent of Lynch or C-Mike, but he's as much a warrior as anyone on the team.

Comparisons: Lynch and Michael are special, game-changing talents, but both have a level of volatility to them as men that is exhausting for coaches and execs in the high stakes game of the NFL. Lynch is a damaged man off the field, unpredictable and at times unreliable. Michael was on track to be a star in college, tore up his knees, went through a coaching change, became discontent and demonstrated immaturity that it cost him his chance to get back on top.

Lynch and Turbin are solid as a rock on the field. You go into any type of battle with these two at your side, and never have to question whether they will see it through to the end. The worst you get from Lynch is him flipping you off because he wants more of the fight.

Back to the point, those questioning C-Mike's ability are simply off-base. If his resolve continues to rise to the level of his talent, he will be a game changer, an elite back, a pro-bowler, and deeply beloved by Hawk fans everywhere.

One of the better posts I've read on the board in a while. Nicely done.

Thanks, Austin.

 

[HHawk121]

Michael has shown over and over again that he can dominate against bad run defenses-- whether it be against second and third stringers during the preseason or the Giants' worst run defense in the NFL. I still very much question his potential to be an every-down back vs. a change-of-pace runner. I hope they draft a bell cow running back, who can replace Lynch's punishing style, and also complement Michael's scatback, boom-or-bust running style.

CMike isn't a scatback... :?

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I like Turbin for what Turbin is, a good #2, COP back.

Jury is still out on Micheal, the guy has speed but he didn't really do anything special.

So he didn't look impressive when he got the ball? He had 71 yards on 4 carries, can't do much better than that. Ironically Pete said he was impressed with Michael in the presser calling his burst "special". What more do people want him to do? High hurdle the O-Line? It's universally accepted league wide the guy has special physical traits for a running back with a couple of scouts calling him the best to enter the league in a decade. Pretty high praise from people not tied to the Seahawks. The jury is still out as we need to see him sustain it and prove it on the field. I just don't get all the skepticism.

Having Michael/Turbin as backups is a nice position to be in.

Notice how Pete confined his compliments to Chistine's 'burst?' Why do you suppose he did that? Seems to me his comments do nothing to refute the reasons his RB coach, insiders and knowledgeable fans cite as to why he sees only limited touches.

1. Ball security is Petey's pet peeve.
2. Knowing where to run within the ZBS is Cable's pet peeve.
3. Being a decent run and pass blocker is a must if he has any hope of being involved in more than a few designed plays.

The dude has an uphill battle ahead of him. People can either accept the facts or get all emotionally invested and disappointed after giving him cute little endearing names like C-Mike.. [emoji90]

 

[BlueBlood]

I like him, hes fast as crap and agile. We need to work him into space like suggested above ala Harvin.

 

[Ozzy]

I like Turbin for what Turbin is, a good #2, COP back.

Jury is still out on Micheal, the guy has speed but he didn't really do anything special.

So he didn't look impressive when he got the ball? He had 71 yards on 4 carries, can't do much better than that. Ironically Pete said he was impressed with Michael in the presser calling his burst "special". What more do people want him to do? High hurdle the O-Line? It's universally accepted league wide the guy has special physical traits for a running back with a couple of scouts calling him the best to enter the league in a decade. Pretty high praise from people not tied to the Seahawks. The jury is still out as we need to see him sustain it and prove it on the field. I just don't get all the skepticism.

Having Michael/Turbin as backups is a nice position to be in.

Notice how Pete confined his compliments to Chistine's 'burst?' Why do you suppose he did that? Seems to me his comments do nothing to refute the reasons his RB coach, insiders and knowledgeable fans cite as to why he sees only limited touches.

1. Ball security is Petey's pet peeve.
2. Knowing where to run within the ZBS is Cable's pet peeve.
3. Being a decent run and pass blocker is a must if he has any hope of being involved in more than a few designed plays.

The dude has an uphill battle ahead of him. People can either accept the facts or get all emotionally invested and disappointed after giving him cute little endearing names like C-Mike.. [emoji90]

1. Ball security is Petey's pet peeve: So does Turbin fumbling give Michael more touches? Based on this argument I would think so.

2. Knowing where to run: I think this is the main reason he has been so limited. He has seemed to figure it out though. He has picked up multiple tough first downs in recent weeks and 70+ yards on 4 carries so he's doing something right. They are also giving him more touches for a reason. I would be shocked if we don't see him being a bigger part of the offense moving forward.

3. Pass protection: Turbin has had some horrible whiffs in pass protection in recent weeks. I don't know that Michael is any worse than Turbin. I think people like to use this because its easy. Lynch is far and away the best in pass protection. Turbin is pretty average in this regard. I think #2 is actually the main reason Michael has been on the bench.

Carroll's confined comments to "burst": I think you're reading into that a little bit(although we all do and have to at times) The tone I got from him talking about MIchael was that he was excited to get him out there finally because it has taken him so long to get on the field.