Carroll on his relationship with Jody Allen

[chris98251]

You could say the same thing about Carroll though LTH.

For most of Carroll's NFL success, he succeeded because he had HOF players that could make up for his inability to gameplan (strategically and tactically), exploit weaknesses, or even adjust in-game.
(Or even pick coordinators & coaches that could do those things!)

But if he kept it close, his HOF QB could go win it for him in the 4th (often).

He could then get by on incredible thin/threadbare gameplans that were simplistic but allowed his great players to do what they wanted to do.

He no longer has many great players left and his HOF QB won't be able to bail out his inability once his QB leaves.

Most of his HOF players besides that are getting long in the tooth or already well on the other side of their prime.

Wilson failed to learn how to be effective at certain things because he could do other things. Same with Carroll.

Both aren't doing as much of those other things.

But Carroll's shortcomings are as big if not bigger problems than Wilson's.

Ok I thought about your point, you're probably not going to see this cause it's going to get lost but...

I honestly don't see that Carroll's game plans this year have been poor. I don't remember years past specifically. Not sure why.

I don't see it as being an issue about keeping things close and winning it in the fourth. If you have the ability to do that than it's not an issue for me until you can't win those games like this year, then you have to ask the question why?

The answer that I come up with is that Wilson isn't adjusting with Pete's adjustments. He needs to learn to play within the system no matter what coach or team he plays for it's no different. I think Pete hired Waldron because he sees that Russ is not as fast as he used to be and can't do the things he used to do, a quick release passing game makes since. I think Russ has to be on the same page with Carroll and Waldron or you get what you get.

I think the Seahawks don't have the same viewpoint as you do. I say this because they signed Carrol and JS to a 5- year deal. this means they like the direction the team was going in.

Now the team has dipped. The Seahawks have to answer the question as to why.

regardless of what I think, or you think Pete is going to be able to talk himself into at least one more year due to Wilsons's injury.

It would make little since from a management perspective to sign a coach to a contract they signed him to and then bail on it after 1 losing season it would be VERY reactionary and would not show ANY confidence in the decision to sign them in the first place. It would make them look incompetent to fire Pete after one year into the new contract. So, I see at least one more year with Carroll and depending on what happens next year they will have to make that decision.

Thats just my take... and i really tried to look at it objectively. I could very well be wrong but from a management standpoint that's the way I see it

I actually think this team is close to being really good, I think if Russ was playing to his potential, we would not be having this conversation.

I know that at some point they are going to get rid of Pete. Maybe next year depending on what happens. I do not like the way they are finishing the season. It could be that Jody doesn't either and they decide to cut their losses

I guess we will find out soon enough


LTH

In that Paragraph all you really said is that Pete can't manage Wilson or Wilson refuses to listen, either way if the Coach can't manage a player either the player or Coach needs to go or both.

Thats it period.

 

[LTH]

You could say the same thing about Carroll though LTH.

For most of Carroll's NFL success, he succeeded because he had HOF players that could make up for his inability to gameplan (strategically and tactically), exploit weaknesses, or even adjust in-game.
(Or even pick coordinators & coaches that could do those things!)

But if he kept it close, his HOF QB could go win it for him in the 4th (often).

He could then get by on incredible thin/threadbare gameplans that were simplistic but allowed his great players to do what they wanted to do.

He no longer has many great players left and his HOF QB won't be able to bail out his inability once his QB leaves.

Most of his HOF players besides that are getting long in the tooth or already well on the other side of their prime.

Wilson failed to learn how to be effective at certain things because he could do other things. Same with Carroll.

Both aren't doing as much of those other things.

But Carroll's shortcomings are as big if not bigger problems than Wilson's.

Ok I thought about your point, you're probably not going to see this cause it's going to get lost but...

I honestly don't see that Carroll's game plans this year have been poor. I don't remember years past specifically. Not sure why.

I don't see it as being an issue about keeping things close and winning it in the fourth. If you have the ability to do that than it's not an issue for me until you can't win those games like this year, then you have to ask the question why?

The answer that I come up with is that Wilson isn't adjusting with Pete's adjustments. He needs to learn to play within the system no matter what coach or team he plays for it's no different. I think Pete hired Waldron because he sees that Russ is not as fast as he used to be and can't do the things he used to do, a quick release passing game makes since. I think Russ has to be on the same page with Carroll and Waldron or you get what you get.

I think the Seahawks don't have the same viewpoint as you do. I say this because they signed Carrol and JS to a 5- year deal. this means they like the direction the team was going in.

Now the team has dipped. The Seahawks have to answer the question as to why.

regardless of what I think, or you think Pete is going to be able to talk himself into at least one more year due to Wilsons's injury.

It would make little since from a management perspective to sign a coach to a contract they signed him to and then bail on it after 1 losing season it would be VERY reactionary and would not show ANY confidence in the decision to sign them in the first place. It would make them look incompetent to fire Pete after one year into the new contract. So, I see at least one more year with Carroll and depending on what happens next year they will have to make that decision.

Thats just my take... and i really tried to look at it objectively. I could very well be wrong but from a management standpoint that's the way I see it

I actually think this team is close to being really good, I think if Russ was playing to his potential, we would not be having this conversation.

I know that at some point they are going to get rid of Pete. Maybe next year depending on what happens. I do not like the way they are finishing the season. It could be that Jody doesn't either and they decide to cut their losses

I guess we will find out soon enough


LTH

In that Paragraph all you really said is that Pete can't manage Wilson or Wilson refuses to listen, either way if the Coach can't manage a player either the player or Coach needs to go or both.

Thats it period.

I mean I guess you could look at it that way.. The truth is I didn't see poor decision making from Russ when they played the Rams. I just saw him miss a bunch of throws... so it could very well be that Wilson is just struggling in the new O... it could very well be that he is Not 100%

I don't know any more than anyone else...

I don't know you might be right I'm just giving my perspective...


LTH

 

[jammerhawk]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

 

[chris98251]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I would keep JS for now, we know Pete has over all approval of roster and players at the moment, Chris Petersen would be one I would reach out to, is more a disciplinarian type has a good offensive mind and knows about delegating and has won everywhere he has been.

 

[LTH]

I find it interesting that The hawks QB coach is moving on... I wonder if there is more of a story behind that?


LTH

 

[LTH]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

 

[jeremiah]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I would keep JS for now, we know Pete has over all approval of roster and players at the moment, Chris Petersen would be one I would reach out to, is more a disciplinarian type has a good offensive mind and knows about delegating and has won everywhere he has been.

Chris Peterson, he would make a very good HC, O Coach, or personnel man. There are many great human beings and coaches who could do a better job than PC at this point. To me, he just got lucky with the Seahawks, lucking into RW, and other players.

To me, losing the Championship to Texas when he was at USC is what revealed his achilles heel. He doesn't run a tight ship, being all loosey goosey on discipline. There are many ways to win a game, but the best way is 1) make zero penalties 2) manage the clock....3) Disciplined defense 4) great O line play 5) defense that stays within the scheme..... If you do all of that, and add playmakers and studs afterwards you will win.

The one thing the first 5 have in common is DISCIPLINE, something PC is lacking. From the blaring of music at practice, to the rah rah rah style after big mistakes. It is clear what his downfall has been. He loves the game, he loves the players, but a Coach must most of all be a disciplinarian. I never understood why players call him by his first name. He should be COACH.....

It also shows with the encouraging manner with which RW treats blockers who get him run over play after play. To me, I want a QB who chews out the blockers, and even sends them to the bench or to the waiver wire if they stink it up consistently. Even the LT Brown is just mediocre at many aspects of the line play. The group as a whole just stinks it up, and I think that would be the consensus since the days of the first SB.

 

[chris98251]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

 

[LTH]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

 

[toffee]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1475611006608936962[/tweet]

There was a report out there that Jody signed off on trading Russell Wilson to Chicago, with consent from Russell Wilson and John Schneider, Pete vetoed it after everyone signed off. That's at least this incidence where Jody and Pete weren't on same page, come to think of it, either the report was wrong or the sequence was intriguing. I meant shouldn't Pete signed off before it reached Jody and not the other way around?

 

[chris98251]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

So you want to be a perennial loser as long as merchandise sells or be the Cowboys and 49ers, leveraging days of the past for marketing purposes but not making a footprint in the present.

 

[LTH]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1475611006608936962[/tweet]

There was a report out there that Jody signed off on trading Russell Wilson to Chicago, with consent from Russell Wilson and John Schneider, Pete vetoed it after everyone signed off. That's at least this incidence where Jody and Pete weren't on same page, come to think of it, either the report was wrong or the sequence was intriguing. I meant shouldn't Pete signed off before it reached Jody and not the other way around?

Thats interesting do you remember where you heard that?

LTH

 

[LTH]

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

So you want to be a perennial loser as long as merchandise sells or be the Cowboys and 49ers, leveraging days of the past for marketing purposes but not making a footprint in the present.

Dude I'm not in competition with you... of course it's about winning championships as well thats Pete's goal every year... take what you want from what I have to say...I don't know everything... i don't claim to know everything I just say it the way I see it...


I think what I'm saying about Holmgren is there is a huge difference in the way the two coaches cultivate relationships,,, If You listen to the two coaches talk it's very apparent.. I guarantee you Carroll has a great relationship with Jody Allen. Holmgren's relationship with PA NOT as good...and thats all I'm going to say about that...


LTH

 

[LTH]

I just listened to Carrols latest PC. Listen to the way Carroll talks about Maddens relationship with al Davis. It is very apparent to me that Carroll is a student of the game even with his current position. Holmgren not so much...

 

[chris98251]

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

So you want to be a perennial loser as long as merchandise sells or be the Cowboys and 49ers, leveraging days of the past for marketing purposes but not making a footprint in the present.

Dude I'm not in competition with you... of course it's about winning championships as well thats Pete's goal every year... take what you want from what I have to say...I don't know everything... i don't claim to know everything I just say it the way I see it...


I think what I'm saying about Holmgren is there is a huge difference in the way the two coaches cultivate relationships,,, If You listen to the two coaches talk it's very apparent.. I guarantee you Carroll has a great relationship with Jody Allen. Holmgren's relationship with PA NOT as good...and thats all I'm going to say about that...


LTH

Thats BS the relationship with Holmgren and Allen was good until the Hutch situation with Ruskell.

 

[LTH]

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

So you want to be a perennial loser as long as merchandise sells or be the Cowboys and 49ers, leveraging days of the past for marketing purposes but not making a footprint in the present.

Dude I'm not in competition with you... of course it's about winning championships as well thats Pete's goal every year... take what you want from what I have to say...I don't know everything... i don't claim to know everything I just say it the way I see it...


I think what I'm saying about Holmgren is there is a huge difference in the way the two coaches cultivate relationships,,, If You listen to the two coaches talk it's very apparent.. I guarantee you Carroll has a great relationship with Jody Allen. Holmgren's relationship with PA NOT as good...and thats all I'm going to say about that...


LTH

Thats BS the relationship with Holmgren and Allen was good until the Hutch situation with Ruskell.

Well... there ya go then you got it all figured out... Ill just admit to being wrong and you can pump your fist in victory LMAO!!!


LTH

 

[chris98251]

So you want to be a perennial loser as long as merchandise sells or be the Cowboys and 49ers, leveraging days of the past for marketing purposes but not making a footprint in the present.

Dude I'm not in competition with you... of course it's about winning championships as well thats Pete's goal every year... take what you want from what I have to say...I don't know everything... i don't claim to know everything I just say it the way I see it...


I think what I'm saying about Holmgren is there is a huge difference in the way the two coaches cultivate relationships,,, If You listen to the two coaches talk it's very apparent.. I guarantee you Carroll has a great relationship with Jody Allen. Holmgren's relationship with PA NOT as good...and thats all I'm going to say about that...


LTH

Thats BS the relationship with Holmgren and Allen was good until the Hutch situation with Ruskell.

Well... there ya go then you got it all figured out... Ill just admit to being wrong and you can pump your fist in victory LMAO!!!


LTH

You know as well as anyone that Ruskell was undermining Holmgren, sure Holmgren wasn't happy with Ruskells hiring but that was never the dagger in the heart.

 

[LTH]

Just in The Walderon hiring.... This to me is an example of Pete seeing that his O needs to be more initiative and up dated.

LTH

Has the offense looked different?

Get all the new coordinators you want, but if he doesn't relinquish control over how he wants the offense ran and he doesn't allow the new coordinator the autonomy to run the offense, then no sorry this doesn't count.

And other than the first game against the Colts where we saw some new wrinkles? All we've seen since is a regression back to Pete Ball. Just as we did with Bevell and Schotty.

See a pattern?

I don't totally agree with your point, the O is different... they run a lot of different plays they never ran before like jet sweeps etc. but they still run some of the older stuff as well...So I would say that it's a mix. But It's obvious that Pete sets parameters for what he wants to see as far as he wants balance etc. But i don't see him running this O or micromanaging it. and I don't think the issues on O come from the play book and I don't think you think that as well from reading your posts...the question is did Pete give up some power. I think he made comprises in a lot of area's...

but back to the draft. I don't believe that Pete controls this I think he lets everybody do their job and I think they pick players based off how they grade those players and i think they set their board and remain true to it... can't say for sure but that's what I think, and I have not seen anything to say otherwise doesn't mean i'm right thats just my perception of a situation that really isn't public.

but the question still stands is it reasonable to think that the Seahawks should remain competitive drafting where they have drafted for the last 10 years?

Edit: im still on my first cup of coffee so my edits are grammar and stuff like that. I'm not a great writer LOL


LTH

We ran sweeps and screens before. One sweep per game (if that) doesn't = drastic Pete change. Sorry.

I don't see any of the layered formations and 4 WR sets working on misdirection that the Rams run. Hell, I don't even think Pete understands the complexities of McVay's passing offense, let alone trusts Waldron to run it.

To answer your last question, no I don't think it's reasonable to think the Hawks will remain competitive drafting. Because they don't have enough draft capital to fill all the holes that need filling this off season. Or even next.

I missed this...

There is nothing to suggest that Waldron isn't running this O. Pete might have some input with game planning because he has a tremendous incite on under standing defensive play and how to attack a defense. The truth is nobody really knows because it's not being made public. I would really like to know what the truth is. I'm not going toi say your totally wrong because I just don't know...


LTH

 

[chris98251]

Has the offense looked different?

Get all the new coordinators you want, but if he doesn't relinquish control over how he wants the offense ran and he doesn't allow the new coordinator the autonomy to run the offense, then no sorry this doesn't count.

And other than the first game against the Colts where we saw some new wrinkles? All we've seen since is a regression back to Pete Ball. Just as we did with Bevell and Schotty.

See a pattern?

I don't totally agree with your point, the O is different... they run a lot of different plays they never ran before like jet sweeps etc. but they still run some of the older stuff as well...So I would say that it's a mix. But It's obvious that Pete sets parameters for what he wants to see as far as he wants balance etc. But i don't see him running this O or micromanaging it. and I don't think the issues on O come from the play book and I don't think you think that as well from reading your posts...the question is did Pete give up some power. I think he made comprises in a lot of area's...

but back to the draft. I don't believe that Pete controls this I think he lets everybody do their job and I think they pick players based off how they grade those players and i think they set their board and remain true to it... can't say for sure but that's what I think, and I have not seen anything to say otherwise doesn't mean i'm right thats just my perception of a situation that really isn't public.

but the question still stands is it reasonable to think that the Seahawks should remain competitive drafting where they have drafted for the last 10 years?

Edit: im still on my first cup of coffee so my edits are grammar and stuff like that. I'm not a great writer LOL


LTH

We ran sweeps and screens before. One sweep per game (if that) doesn't = drastic Pete change. Sorry.

I don't see any of the layered formations and 4 WR sets working on misdirection that the Rams run. Hell, I don't even think Pete understands the complexities of McVay's passing offense, let alone trusts Waldron to run it.

To answer your last question, no I don't think it's reasonable to think the Hawks will remain competitive drafting. Because they don't have enough draft capital to fill all the holes that need filling this off season. Or even next.

I missed this...

There is nothing to suggest that Waldron isn't running this O. Pete might have some input with game planning because he has a tremendous incite on under standing defensive play and how to attack a defense. The truth is nobody really knows because it's not being made public. I would really like to know what the truth is. I'm not going toi say your totally wrong because I just don't know...


LTH

Oh other than the offense we seen against the Colts with Wilson is drastically different than any other game, or the offense against the Rams with Geno ?

 

[jeremiah]

Lots of tin foil hats around here.

Curious about who the suggested replacements would be for JS and PC? Curious to know how you think they'd magically do so much better right away?

Lots of pontification going on here where if you aren't a hater you are in denial type nonsense. PC and Js have put together the best record for a FO the team has ever had. Thats EVER HAD for the haters. Time will tell if PC has lost his mojo, whether JS is simply a PC toadie and incompetent at making good draft choices, whether RW is washed up, and whether the trade for Adams is as bad a several here make it out to be.

So far this will be the worst ever season for this FO and it is clear there will need to be some changes as this season has been a disaster we have come not to expect because the FO has managed well until recently.

As tough as it may be to do so a little patience is necessary. Hello Tokyo, hello, hello?

I think this decision to keep or fire Pete Carroll is not going to be made from a fan perspective. It should be made from a business standpoint.

This is a HUGE decision that should not be taken lightly, with the implications of losing millions of dollars, maybe money that is already invested in just the Carroll philosophy alone.

The implications of making a poor choice here could affect this franchise for years to come.

The simple fact that Carroll has kept this team in the playoffs for most of his career looks way different from a business perspective than it does from a fan perspective.

There are going to be some fans who think he should be fired because he has not been to the SB for a while. But from a business perspective the fact that he is competitive every year for the most part is making this franchise a lot of money... Firing Carroll is creating big shoes to fill. especially off of one losing season ok,2 losing seasons in 11 years


If this organization is going to fire Pete Carroll it has to be prepared to have 3-5 years of losing seasons if not more, in which revenue is going to drop dramatically... So, If Jody fires Pete, she dang well better have the right guy to come in and completely rebuild the whole organization from the water boy on up because Pete built this organization...just go through employment staff and see how complicated it is...

I don't think most fans understand that or what those entails.

LTH

If that was the point, they would have kept Holmgren, the goal is a Championship. Nothing else comes close, that was Pauls mentality and if Jody mimics that then that is what's important, millions will come to a winner, not a loser.

There was a lot more other things involved when Holmgren left... a lot of what happened was not public


LTH

I would love to know what was going on that chased MH out of the door. I suspect, he was angry that they wouldn't move him to GM and bring in another Coach instead of keeping him as HC and getting rid of the idiot in charge.