Carroll: This might be the best depth we have had.

[HawKnPeppa]

It's obviously a bit of coach speak. 2013 might go down as one of the deepest teams in NFL history with our CB depth, etc. No one could throw on us.

That said, I think he means depth in other areas. Our DL depth might be the deepest we've had and that's a huge deal in this defense. Obviously you have Avril and Bennett, not you're getting back Marsh who is getting a ton of great pub plus Hill back, plus Mebane who's healthy now, McDonald, Rubin who's going to be a great player also, etc, etc.

The game is won in the trenches, and our defense might very well be very deep this year. DLine matters a whole lot and if we get excellent play from the LB's, which we always have and Irvin will be trying to ball out to get a new contract elsewhere, and Bobby and Wright will be on new deals (hopefully). Then you got the LOB and the only question mark there is Cary Williams and I think he fits perfectly in our scheme and will do well with the rest of the supporting cast, Blackmon at nickel CB, Shead at backup safety, etc.

I think our defense won't take a step backwards this year at all. We lead the NFL in points given up for a fourth straight year.

Offense is another story I'm stoked about. Since when has Wilson had a decent pass game that wasn't gimicky to offset the strong run game. Graham is a legit elite level player that defenses have to game plan for. Imagine not being able to stack the box against Lynch like they've been able to do the past few years. He stretches the field vertically and affects the red zone coverages greatly. This means you take someone out of the middle of the defense and Lynch should be able to take advantage.

All told, I'm probably more excited about this team than I was last year. Harvin was a bit of a gimick player and was never a guy who you can stretch defenses vertically with. That's what we need, someone who stretches vertically to space things out underneath to allow Baldwin and Lockett to get open.

Color me biased of course but I think we get back to the SB and win it this time. Graham offers a dimension we've never seen here before and our defense should be good if not better than last year if injuries don't play a factor.

Go Hawks!

Yes, Graham can stretch the field vertically; however, that can't happen in a vacuum. Early in the season, it might be a good assumption that our pass pro won't be consistent enough to allow the deep routes to develop. Sooo, I think it's much more realistic to think the immediate benefit he provides is just drawing that extra defender out of the box for Lynch to run free. Next is a larger red zone target, followed by an over-the-middle target. Once our OL starts providing some semblance of pass pro (fingers crossed) is when we graduate from pain in the neck to total nightmare to defend.

 

[Crizilla]

I always admire Pete's enthusiasm and optimism, but IMO we will NEVER have the talent and depth of the 2013 team ever again. 2013 was the perfect storm of hitting on all facets of depth;

- perfect draft
- free agent hits
- health
- low cap due to youth of best players
- timing of everyone playing well at once

Certainly guys like KPL, Marsh, Simon, Hill, etc can jump up and have great years.............but it still wouldn't come close to the talent and depth on our 2013 roster.

I disagree, I trust Pete knows what he is talking about. I also feel like saying "NEVER" is kind of silly.

I'm confident in my "never." The 2013 Hawks will go down as one of the top 5 most talented rosters of all time..............and Pete is the great optimist, so you have to know when to take his comments with a grain of salt, like a politician. He was a town hall trying to get everyone fired up, what's he going to say "THIS IS THE 4TH BEST DEPTH WE'VE EVER HAD!"

I hope he's right, but as of now I don't see it, we're thin at D-Line, have a bunch of D-line converts at depth for O-line, three new starters on the O-line, Cary Williams starting at DB, who know's starting at slot DB with both Lane and Simon coming off injuries, 3 of the 4 LOB members coming off major injuries, a rookie PR/KR, who's also our starting slot guy with no P-Rich to start the season.

That's better than the depth we had in 2013?

I agree that the 2013 team was literally one of the greatest teams ever assembled in the history of athletic competition. However with last seasons roster being 1 yard away from another title I think the roster can be good enough again, which is all you can ask for. As long as they are holding up the Lombardi in February that's all that matters.

2013 team was incredibly close to being undefeated.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I always admire Pete's enthusiasm and optimism, but IMO we will NEVER have the talent and depth of the 2013 team ever again. 2013 was the perfect storm of hitting on all facets of depth;

- perfect draft
- free agent hits
- health
- low cap due to youth of best players
- timing of everyone playing well at once

Certainly guys like KPL, Marsh, Simon, Hill, etc can jump up and have great years.............but it still wouldn't come close to the talent and depth on our 2013 roster.

I disagree, I trust Pete knows what he is talking about. I also feel like saying "NEVER" is kind of silly.

I'm confident in my "never." The 2013 Hawks will go down as one of the top 5 most talented rosters of all time..............and Pete is the great optimist, so you have to know when to take his comments with a grain of salt, like a politician. He was a town hall trying to get everyone fired up, what's he going to say "THIS IS THE 4TH BEST DEPTH WE'VE EVER HAD!"

I hope he's right, but as of now I don't see it, we're thin at D-Line, have a bunch of D-line converts at depth for O-line, three new starters on the O-line, Cary Williams starting at DB, who know's starting at slot DB with both Lane and Simon coming off injuries, 3 of the 4 LOB members coming off major injuries, a rookie PR/KR, who's also our starting slot guy with no P-Rich to start the season.

That's better than the depth we had in 2013?

I agree that the 2013 team was literally one of the greatest teams ever assembled in the history of athletic competition. However with last seasons roster being 1 yard away from another title I think the roster can be good enough again, which is all you can ask for. As long as they are holding up the Lombardi in February that's all that matters.

2013 team was incredibly close to being undefeated.

Undeafeated??? Not really. If you think about the "close" games we could have won how about the close games we could have lost? There were several. That was a great team no doubt but I feel this team has the potential to be better. This team is better designed. We also are a year more experienced with our core guys (even more important with our quarterback).

 

[kearly]

Isn't there 7 plus mil in dead money to Percy? that kinda still counts, right?

Correct. $7.2 million, or $5.7 million less than if Harvin were still here.

I forgot to mention, every season has 'dead money'. There was dead money in 2013 too. 2015 had about twice the amount of dead money on offense, but had basically zero dead money on defense. I can't find the dead money for defense in 2013, but odds are that the total dead money numbers are reasonably close between the two years.

 

[Scottemojo]

Isn't there 7 plus mil in dead money to Percy? that kinda still counts, right?

Correct. $7.2 million, or $5.7 million less than if Harvin were still here.

I forgot to mention, every season has 'dead money'. There was dead money in 2013 too. 2015 had about twice the amount of dead money on offense, but had basically zero dead money on defense. I can't find the dead money for defense in 2013, but odds are that the total dead money numbers are reasonably close between the two years.

I know. I was just being an ass.
I kind of wonder if Pete mentioned this because he is making a point of letting someone seeking a huge salary know how much he loves the depth of a roster. Or not. Maybe just making fans feel good in the offseason.

 

[kearly]

I know. I was just being an ass.
I kind of wonder if Pete mentioned this because he is making a point of letting someone seeking a huge salary know how much he loves the depth of a roster. Or not. Maybe just making fans feel good in the offseason.

If Pehawk were here, he'd respond to this by saying "ichaelme ennettbe" or something like that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I agree that the 2013 team was literally one of the greatest teams ever assembled in the history of athletic competition. However with last seasons roster being 1 yard away from another title I think the roster can be good enough again, which is all you can ask for. As long as they are holding up the Lombardi in February that's all that matters.

2013 team was incredibly close to being undefeated.

I think the 2013 Hawks would have beat the Patriots by 17, maybe more. We lost because of no Clemons, Red, Thurmond, Harvin on special teams and dinged up LOB.

That should tell you everything you need to know about Pete's statement. Just.Not.True.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I agree that the 2013 team was literally one of the greatest teams ever assembled in the history of athletic competition. However with last seasons roster being 1 yard away from another title I think the roster can be good enough again, which is all you can ask for. As long as they are holding up the Lombardi in February that's all that matters.

2013 team was incredibly close to being undefeated.

I think the 2013 Hawks would have beat the Patriots by 17, maybe more. We lost because of no Clemons, Red, Thurmond, Harvin on special teams and dinged up LOB.

That should tell you everything you need to know about Pete's statement. Just.Not.True.

I think the 2014 hawks could have beat the Pats by 17 if we had a healthy Lane, Avril, and LOB. But twas not to be. Injuries are part of the game.

 

[hawknation2015]

PFF ranks the Seahawks #1 in roster talent:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/ ... -teams-nfl

The best roster in football belongs to the Seahawks. The team, which was littered with injuries at the time, came up one play short of winning back-to-back Super Bowls, and that had more to do with a questionable play call and a fantastic defensive play than any sort of roster weakness.

The offensive line remains below average at best, but Wilson, Lynch and now Graham give the Seahawks weapons perfectly suited to make up for any blocking issues, especially when their read-option plays are added into the equation. Lynch broke 130 total tackles last season, including the playoffs, while no other back got near 100.

The Legion of Boom was very banged up by the end of that Super Bowl, but Sherman and Thomas remain elite talents, and there are quality players all over the defense. Even free-agent pickup Cary Williams, much maligned in Philadelphia, could have a pretty good year in a defense that puts better talent around him and supports his aggressive play. With the roster in this kind of shape, the Seahawks aren't going anywhere for a while.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-offseason ... nkings-nfl

1. Seahawks
2. Packers
3. Ravens
4. Patriots
5. Broncos

 

[DavidSeven]

Who have we lost since 2013? Tate, Breno, Carp, Clemons, Bryant, Unger, Miller, Rice, Harvin, Browner...

Really the only player to leave town that I badly wish were here today is Tate. Unger and Breno would be nice, but not necessities. And guys like Miller and Tjack might still be back.

I think Secondary and, to a degree, OL is where Pete's statement really falls apart. I am not sure we will ever see a better secondary than what the 2013 Seahawks had: Sherman, Maxwell, Browner, Thurmond, Lane, E. Thomas, Chancellor, Jeron Johnson, etc. Plus, guys like Antoine Winfield, Ron Parker and Will Blackmon were offseason cuts that year. Just crazy depth.

Other position groups are probably up for debate, but the 2013 OL and DL definitely had more proven commodities. The current group is promising because of youth, but we really knew what we had in the trenches with the 2013 squad.

 

[kearly]

Other position groups are probably up for debate, but the 2013 OL and DL definitely had more proven commodities. The current group is promising because of youth, but we really knew what we had in the trenches with the 2013 squad.

I plead no contest with regards to the secondary, even though I really like Tye Smith and Ryan Murphy.

The offensive line in 2013 had historically bad pass protection. Granted, it was thanks to an unbelievable amount of injuries, but even if 2015 is extremely bad, I don't think it could really be any worse than 2013 was.

I'll take the 2015 DL over 2013. All the best players from the 2013 group are still here, plus we've got Hill coming into his own and a substantial addition in Rubin. I think Frank Clark could be a very effective all around player on day one, though he probably won't hit his full stride for a year or two. My only real worry on the 2015 DL is the prospect of Michael Bennett being a fool and missing games.

There is significantly more talent on the DL now than there was in 2015, even if it does have a few extra question marks. If you put the names next to each other side by side, the 2015 DL group is the more exciting group.

Depth aside, there is one major difference between the two teams and that is the impact of Jimmy Graham. A lot of supporting cast members on offense will look better because of the attention Graham will bring.

 

[rideaducati]

Tarvaris will be back in the fold come the mandatory mini-camp, as he should be.

He isn't under contract, so nothing is mandatory for him.

 

[hawknation2015]

Tarvaris will be back in the fold come the mandatory mini-camp, as he should be.

He isn't under contract, so nothing is mandatory for him.

He is now!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110987&start=50

 

[hawknation2015]

Other position groups are probably up for debate, but the 2013 OL and DL definitely had more proven commodities. The current group is promising because of youth, but we really knew what we had in the trenches with the 2013 squad.

I plead no contest with regards to the secondary, even though I really like Tye Smith and Ryan Murphy.

The offensive line in 2013 had historically bad pass protection. Granted, it was thanks to an unbelievable amount of injuries, but even if 2015 is extremely bad, I don't think it could really be any worse than 2013 was.

I'll take the 2015 DL over 2013. All the best players from the 2013 group are still here, plus we've got Hill coming into his own and a substantial addition in Rubin. I think Frank Clark could be a very effective all around player on day one, though he probably won't hit his full stride for a year or two. My only real worry on the 2015 DL is the prospect of Michael Bennett being a fool and missing games.

There is significantly more talent on the DL now than there was in 2015, even if it does have a few extra question marks. If you put the names next to each other side by side, the 2015 DL group is the more exciting group.

Depth aside, there is one major difference between the two teams and that is the impact of Jimmy Graham. A lot of supporting cast members on offense will look better because of the attention Graham will bring.

I agree with everything here. One major difference from 2013 is the potential impact of the rookie class. The 2013 draft class was the worst class of the Carroll Era, while this year's class appears to have several more potential contributors. Of course, we will have to wait and see how it actually plays out, but the potential for impact by the rookies is certainly greater this year than it was in 2013:

Frank Clark seems very likely to start somewhere in the nickel defense -- either LEO or DT -- and to assume some of the reps behind Bennett/Avril.

Tyler Lockett is likely to start as a returner and to assume backup reps behind Baldwin in the slot and possibly flanker.

Glowinski, Poole, and Sokoli will all provide valuable depth along the offensive line, which is something we did not really have in 2013.

There is a definite opening for Tye Smith to earn reps at NCB, while Lane recovers, or at RCB behind Cary Williams. Likewise, Murphy could slot in as a backup SS and play special teams.

Gwacham will probably go to the PS, providing more depth at LEO.

I think we had far less to work with from the rookies in 2013, sans Bailey (undrafted) playing a few reps as a swing tackle, Bowie (7th Round) assuming backup guard and RT duties, and Willson (5th Round) playing a little bit. Michael, Hill, and Simon didn't play much due to injuries. Overall, the 2013 class just felt much more raw than this class does. I could see three starters emerging from the 2015 class this season, and several more providing valuable depth.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'll take the 2015 DL over 2013. All the best players from the 2013 group are still here, plus we've got Hill coming into his own and a substantial addition in Rubin. I think Frank Clark could be a very effective all around player on day one, though he probably won't hit his full stride for a year or two. My only real worry on the 2015 DL is the prospect of Michael Bennett being a fool and missing games.

There is significantly more talent on the DL now than there was in 2015, even if it does have a few extra question marks. If you put the names next to each other side by side, the 2015 DL group is the more exciting group.

Not sure how you can say this.

2013
56 Cliff Avril DE
72 Michael Bennett DE
79 Red Bryant DE
91 Chris Clemons DE
97 Jordan Hill DT
95 Benson Mayowa DE
99 Tony McDaniel DT
69 Clinton McDonald DT
92 Brandon Mebane DT


2015
56 Cliff Avril DE
72 Michael Bennett DE
55 Frank Clark DE
67 Landon Cohen DT
95 Demarcus Dobbs DE
59 Obum Gwacham DE
97 Jordan Hill DT
70 David King DE
99 Tony McDaniel DT
91 Cassius Marsh DE
92 Brandon Mebane DT
44 Ryan Robinson DE
77 Ahtyba Rubin DT
98 Greg Scruggs DE


2013 had a great rotation of veterans in their prime playing the perfect number of snaps, and younger/hungrier/healthier/happier rotation at that.

2015? We've only got two proven starters, Avril and Bennett..........and one of those guys is unhappy.

I admire your optimism, I do. Because in 2-3 years we could look back on guys like Clark, Hill and Marsh and say you were right if they start producing at high levels. But right now, at this moment in time IMO it's not even close. 2013 D-line > 2015.

 

[vin.couve12]

Lotof people from Missoura up in here...