D-Line

[Seahawk_Dan]

Besides D-Line this is the position of most importance.

People are starting threads about Flowers regressing but it is directly tied to our d-LINE.

We were dreadful except for Clowney and Jeff.

Did you see Adam's TD where he turned Flowers around like a corkscrew? That throw took less than two seconds.

People need to stop making excuses for Flowers. He stinks, he's Tharold Simon 2.0.

Not all his fault, he's a safety, he doesn't have 10 years of reps and instinct to rely on. But that doesn't mean we need to see another year or two of him costing us games with his PI penalties and terrible mistakes.

You want to go to a SB again, Flowers is not the answer. Yes he's fine against backup QB's in the middle of the season, but in the playoffs when you're going against elite QB's, they're going to expose and eat him for lunch.

I concur. I think Flowers had his chance and maybe even add some muscle and shift back into safety. The team needs to look for a compliment for Shaq, not a detriment.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Question about Collier. Is it all cause he didn't look good or did he suffer the same thing as guys like Blair and Amadi and just not given a chance? Or a bit of both?

 

[massari]

Seems like Clowney and Fowler will be the only top tier FA pass rush talent available for the Hawks.

The Cowboys and Ravens seem to be in good shape as far as their salary cap, so can't see why they'd let Mathew Judon and Robert Quinn go elsewhere. They're also possible franchise tag candidates.

Chris Jones and Yannick Ngakoue will for sure be franchised if unable to re-sign, so it'd take a Frank Clark type package to get them.

 

[Largent80]

Question about Collier. Is it all cause he didn't look good or did he suffer the same thing as guys like Blair and Amadi and just not given a chance? Or a bit of both?

Collier is a strength/athletic type, not a quick twitch DE the Hawks need. He's basically Rasheem Green.

 

[AgentDib]

Question about Collier. Is it all cause he didn't look good or did he suffer the same thing as guys like Blair and Amadi and just not given a chance? Or a bit of both?

I can't fathom why posters believe that certain players aren't given a chance on this team. This is one of the few teams that aren't going to play people based on off-field stuff such as if they were paid a higher salary or were a high draft pick. Instead, players all get the same opportunity to show that they deserve to play in the next game whether they were UDFAs or veterans or just drafted. The number of examples of this are so numerous that it would feel absurd even listing them here on a Seahawks forum. There are pros and cons to this approach but it's crazy to think that a specific player wasn't given a chance.

Collier missed most of the training camp and the preseason due to injury. That means you're talking about putting a player with no NFL reps into games with playoff implications. Is it really that surprising that he didn't look as ready in practice as the guys who played more than snaps than he did?

Rookies make rookie mistakes. I'm sure you saw Barton and Blair out of position in their few defensive snaps earlier in the season, or Amadi getting burned on the final third and long which ended our season. Last season the team felt they had an opportunity to win and developing rookies for the long-term was much less important to them then what players were the best on that Sunday. See Metcalf for an example, who was given a ton of opportunities as a rookie because the coaching staff felt that he was the best option in the short term.

 

[Largent80]

Penny missed most of the preseason a year ago. This year you could see progress. The difference with him and Collier is he actually got a lot more chances to play during the season. Collier was almost always inactive. They put him in for a game and Pete wasn't so kind in his usual positive aspect about his results for that game.

He rode pine the rest of the way. They are looking to make him like a Red Bryant type going forward.

 

[getnasty]

Imgine re-signing Clowney, and getting Fowler and Quinn in F.A.

50 million a year and Clowney would have to play DT

 

[MontanaHawk05]

FA Jordan Phillips out of Buffalo.

 

[Anajimmc]

I wonder if, after this years draft, Will Rasheem Green still be the youngest player on the D-Line?

It seems very unlikely they would ignore DL in the draft.

I wasn't expecting they would ignore D-Line. I only mentioned this because Green is very young. Green flashed in his rookie pre-season then disappeared. Green showed great improvement from year 1 to 2. There is no reason to think that he will not continue to improve for years to come. I think he could easily become an 8 to 12 sack a year guy, he's also shown to be a bit of a ball hawk as a D lineman.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Here's the list of DE free agents for you to look at that Pete and John will ignore cause they never go after 1st tier free agents.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents ... nsive-end/

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That's the Spirit :irishdrinkers:

 

[Largent80]

Yeah, keep a team afloat in the salary cap era by signing every FA... D-Lineman on the planet.

It DOESN'T work that way and thank Gawd we have JS and not some random fan on a friggin message board.

Chris Jones would be a cheap get and he has good numbers.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yeah, keep a team afloat in the salary cap era by signing every FA... D-Lineman on the planet.

It DOESN'T work that way and thank Gawd we have JS and not some random fan on a friggin message board.

Chris Jones would be a cheap get and he has good numbers.

I agree with Pete and John not going after top tier FA's most of the time. But if we can't resign Clowney? We're in deep doo doo on the D-line, so I think this might be the off season they have to break away from that philosophy and go hard after a couple first wave DE's.

Cause if we go into next season with a couple more bargain bin Ansah's and no Reed and Clowney? It's gonna get ugly.

 

[Largent80]

Clowney is a must sign. It starts there. Reed??...We'll see what he asks for and what others want to give but they have shown they can find DT everywhere. Ford is still rising and Q.Jeff had a great year.

Finding that Avril/Bennett in 2020 is almost a must. I am happy we have the people we do turning over rocks.

 

[ivotuk]

Yeah, keep a team afloat in the salary cap era by signing every FA... D-Lineman on the planet.

It DOESN'T work that way and thank Gawd we have JS and not some random fan on a friggin message board.

Chris Jones would be a cheap get and he has good numbers.

Dud! Errr..Dude! Chris Jones is going to cost a LOT of money. That said, he's a Fletcher Cox type disrupter, and would be worth it.

Problem is, I don't think we have the cap room to do what's needed, and to sign him too. That would be asking too much.

Re-sign Clowney, Re-sign Jarran Reed, get Nazair Jones healthy. Kid has talent, he just needs to put it all together.

LJ Collier needs an offseason to learn the game at the NFL level. He had very little playing time in College, and IIRC, he played a fairly simplistic defense.

I'd be all for trading up in the 1st using a 1st and 2nd round pick. Like someone else mentioned, get that 1st round talent with a rookie deal, and 5 years of control.

A lot of draft geeks believe that in any year, there are only 15 or 20 College players with 1st round talent. That means pick 21 is a 2nd round talent. So try to get above that, to get a DE that can raise the level of this defense.

 

[Largent80]

There will be no DE available at 27 worth a crap.

Collier really is just a Red Bryant type. That isn't going to cut it for next year. This team needs speed off the edge as does every team in the NFL.

As I pointed out, Fowler, Quinn and Jones are proven pass rushers. This is a premium position and the Hawks can't afford to "develop" a player here. They need to spend and they need at least one, possibly 2 of them.

Hard to do in the cap era. But Britt is 9 Mil. Dixon...5....savings can be had. We have 8th highest cap in the league and a ton of picks.

 

[Largent80]

Bye Reed hello Jones.

 

[Largent80]

Reed, Jefferson and Jones all FA, so is Clowney and Ansah.

That's almost half of the line.

This has been discussed before but we can put all of it in one place here.

The draft this year is unfortunately (in a time of need) devoid of any help on the Line.

Obviously FA is the option here. So we're talking about a LOT off money. This isn't 7 years ago when DE was obtainable cheaply (relatively).....So there are going to be some decisions and contract restructuring to free up enough money to hopefully fix the D-Line.

I would love to have Clowney back. I would also LOVE for the Hawks to trade a second for Von Miller. He would fit this defense perfectly.....any ideas?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, they not only need Clowney back, they need ANOTHER good End on the opposite side.

 

[Largent80]

Yep, they not only need Clowney back, they need ANOTHER good End on the opposite side.

Plus Jefferson, he flashed big time and is UFA.