Dumping the defensive stars so we can get more offensive?

[rcaido]

I thought all we needed were new coordinators and a reliable kicker. Protect our QB and get a RB.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I thought all we needed were new coordinators and a reliable kicker. Protect our QB and get a RB.

And a guard, and a weakside LB, and a DT (maybe two), and a DE, and a CB, and a SS, and a FS if our FS holds out, and a TE, and a FB, and a WR if Richardson signs elsewhere................AND a kicker, and maybe a punter as well cause Ryan stunk last year and he makes a lot.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.

It's quite possible. Maybe bring in an FA or two that can contribute as starters as well.

Vikings and Rams used the Seahawks model to full effect. Time for the Hawks to do the same.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.

It's quite possible. Maybe bring in an FA or two that can contribute as starters as well.

Vikings and Rams used the Seahawks model to full effect. Time for the Hawks to do the same.

the problem is the "Seahawk model" is based on taking advantage of a rookie QB deal in order to stack the defense, which is what the Rams are doing right now trading for Peters and signing Talib.

Not a coincidence that all this cap mess and having a harder time getting back to a dominant team since Russell signed his massive contract.

IMO our mistake was extending all these guys on defense severely limiting what we could spend on the offensive side of the ball (especially the O-line), then when the star defenders stopped playing like star defenders, we were screwed, and now we're still paying for it.

Sarge's cap philosophy going forward..................get young and nasty on defense (and cheap) and spend most of the cap on the offense.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.

It's quite possible. Maybe bring in an FA or two that can contribute as starters as well.

Vikings and Rams used the Seahawks model to full effect. Time for the Hawks to do the same.

the problem is the "Seahawk model" is based on taking advantage of a rookie QB deal in order to stack the defense, which is what the Rams are doing right now trading for Peters and signing Talib.

Not a coincidence that all this cap mess and having a harder time getting back to a dominant team since Russell signed his massive contract.

IMO our mistake was extending all these guys on defense severely limiting what we could spend on the offensive side of the ball (especially the O-line), then when the star defenders stopped playing like star defenders, we were screwed, and now we're still paying for it.

Sarge's cap philosophy going forward..................get young and nasty on defense (and cheap) and spend most of the cap on the offense.

Is this a 5 year plan that recycles to the other side every 5 years?

 

[12forlife]

Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.

I couldn't agree more, It all depends w/ if ET is still in "I'm In" mode. If not trade him as well for as much draft capital possible.
I agree w/ you on Brown @ 10 mil he is a great stop gap to help get this Oline headed in the right direction, while providing some mentoring to young guys we draft or FA pickups.
Wilson & Wagner are the leaders on each side of the ball, and IMHO are the only 2 not moveable pieces to this remodel.
I think a lot of people are in complete panic mode over the moves being made, and yes it is going to hurt this year with no Bennett, and probably no Sherm, Chancellor & Avril. What people aren't seeing is the young guys that are already in place with Clark, Reed, Naz, Shaq. We have some ground work in place to work with. A lot more then they had when they had to do a complete overhaul the first go around. I have faith, might take a couple seasons while Philly & Rams enjoy their day in the sun, while they are both in win now mode, But I have faith we can be back in the mix in a couple years.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.

It's quite possible. Maybe bring in an FA or two that can contribute as starters as well.

Vikings and Rams used the Seahawks model to full effect. Time for the Hawks to do the same.

the problem is the "Seahawk model" is based on taking advantage of a rookie QB deal in order to stack the defense, which is what the Rams are doing right now trading for Peters and signing Talib.

Not a coincidence that all this cap mess and having a harder time getting back to a dominant team since Russell signed his massive contract.

IMO our mistake was extending all these guys on defense severely limiting what we could spend on the offensive side of the ball (especially the O-line), then when the star defenders stopped playing like star defenders, we were screwed, and now we're still paying for it.

Sarge's cap philosophy going forward..................get young and nasty on defense (and cheap) and spend most of the cap on the offense.

Is this a 5 year plan that recycles to the other side every 5 years?

Nope, I'd hope that John and Pete learned their lesson on handing out massive extensions to their defensive stars. Maybe one or two? But not 5-6 hamstringing the cap for half a decade.

I'm skeptical with Pete when it comes to offense, but I'm not with defense. He knows how to draft defenders, especially DB's. So as long as he can restock that defense over the next 2-3 years, then there will be plenty of draft and cap capital to round out the offense.

Maybe. Or this will spiral out of control, the rebuild be a total failure and John and Pete leave.

YAH!

 

[lobohawk]

All the cap savings are on the D side now and that is what this is about. Cap space.

 

[Steve2222]

Well if that is the case, we probably should have gotten an OC with some promise.

Our best players are now on offense, so it would make sense.

But we have a HC with a history of focusing on the defense over offense.

We have a middle of the road (if that) OC.

We have a tremendously talented QB but he is almost tremendously inconsistent and not very adept at some key elements you would expect a top tier QB to be able to produce at. Then again, he was hamstrung with a sub-par OC but I am not really sure we helped him much with our new OC.

We NEEDED to focus on offense as that is our strength. I just am not sure this staff has the ability to do it.

Our best player is on offense but our best players are still on defense

Bobby Wagner is the best true LB in football
Earl Thomas is a top 3 Safety
KJ Wright is a top 10 4-3 outside linebacker
Sheldon Richardson is above average
Frank Clark is above average
Shaquill Griffin shows tremendous potential

Offense is Russell Wilson and Doug Baldwin

 

[jammerhawk]

Dumping the defensive stars so we can get more offensive?

Ans: Nope!
However, it was time to rationalize the cap situation that was overbalanced in favour of the D.

$18 million in cap this year and more going forward was just taken off the cap spend this season so far by trading Bennett and releasing Sherman and Lane.

 

[adeltaY]

We need a better offensive scheme if this is going to work. Based on Sam Gould's breakdown of the Shotty offense, it's even more Conservative than Bev and emphasises pushing the ball down field with three and four vert concepts.

Call me crazy, but that seems like the opposite of what we need.

 

[jammerhawk]

schemes change based upon personnel

 

[pittpnthrs]

schemes change based upon personnel

They sure didnt here. Years have gone by with our coordinators trying to change players strengths to fit their scheme instead of the other way around. This is my biggest concern going forward with Pete too. Is he finally going to scrap his philosophy of the offense doing just enough to keep it close in the end and open things up, or is he still going to depend on a defense that isnt even a shell of its former self. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[jammerhawk]

New coordinators on O & D.

Changes will be taking place but OA the same philosophy.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

It will probably be determined by what keeps the masses coming to see the games. If there is a drop off, then a retool to try to apease the masses so they can sell more stuff to the masses. Remember that Sherman is at the Players Association meeting and I am sure the Owners have an owners meeting and the coaches have a coaches meeting or did have one at the combine??? LOL

 

[Sgt. Largent]

schemes change based upon personnel

They sure didnt here. Years have gone by with our coordinators trying to change players strengths to fit their scheme instead of the other way around. This is my biggest concern going forward with Pete too. Is he finally going to scrap his philosophy of the offense doing just enough to keep it close in the end and open things up, or is he still going to depend on a defense that isnt even a shell of its former self. I'm not holding my breath.

Pete's had the same philosophy, on both sides of the ball for over 40 years, so I don't think he's changing now.

- acquire players that love the game, love it's physicality, and have a chip on their shoulder
- ball control grind down the opponent breaking their will on offense
- have a freaky athletically fast and punishing defense that punches people in the mouth

So I think we're all OK with Pete's philosophies, it's the part where we trust he and John to rebuild again. That's where most of our confidence starts to wane.

Do they still have it in them for one more run?

 

[hawksincebirth]

We're dumping defensive stars to get cap relief. Period.

Right now we barely have 10M of cap space before free agency and the draft. Trading Bennett and cutting Sherman opens up 13M more just for those two players.

That's the thing people who are mad about these moves don't get. You CAN'T go into free agency and the draft with holes all over the roster to fill with 10M of cap to sign a dozen players (free agents and all the draft picks).

So you start at the top of the roster, and work your way down.

Wilson
Sherman
Thomas
Wagner
Bennett
Wright
Brown
Britt
Baldwin

So if you're pissed off about Sherman and Bennett, who are you cutting? Cause you gotta cut multiple people on this list to free up enough cap to even sign mediocre free agents to fill the roster and pay all your draft picks.

What does 23 mil get you ? Does it get you a Richard Sherman level player or a Bennett level player. Top 50 player ? Top 100 ?
Was there no other way to save money ? Injury settlements with Avril ? Kam ?
Just asking . Can this team be rebuilt and brought back to a contender before pete retires ?

 

[mrt144]

We're dumping defensive stars to get cap relief. Period.

Right now we barely have 10M of cap space before free agency and the draft. Trading Bennett and cutting Sherman opens up 13M more just for those two players.

That's the thing people who are mad about these moves don't get. You CAN'T go into free agency and the draft with holes all over the roster to fill with 10M of cap to sign a dozen players (free agents and all the draft picks).

So you start at the top of the roster, and work your way down.

Wilson
Sherman
Thomas
Wagner
Bennett
Wright
Brown
Britt
Baldwin

So if you're pissed off about Sherman and Bennett, who are you cutting? Cause you gotta cut multiple people on this list to free up enough cap to even sign mediocre free agents to fill the roster and pay all your draft picks.

What does 23 mil get you ? Does it get you a Richard Sherman level player or a Bennett level player. Top 50 player ? Top 100 ?
Was there no other way to save money ? Injury settlements with Avril ? Kam ?
Just asking . Can this team be rebuilt and brought back to a contender before pete retires ?

My belief to the last question is a firm no. Maybe by 2020-2021 we'll be back on track.

 

[pittpnthrs]

schemes change based upon personnel

They sure didnt here. Years have gone by with our coordinators trying to change players strengths to fit their scheme instead of the other way around. This is my biggest concern going forward with Pete too. Is he finally going to scrap his philosophy of the offense doing just enough to keep it close in the end and open things up, or is he still going to depend on a defense that isnt even a shell of its former self. I'm not holding my breath.

Pete's had the same philosophy, on both sides of the ball for over 40 years, so I don't think he's changing now.

- acquire players that love the game, love it's physicality, and have a chip on their shoulder
- ball control grind down the opponent breaking their will on offense
- have a freaky athletically fast and punishing defense that punches people in the mouth

So I think we're all OK with Pete's philosophies, it's the part where we trust he and John to rebuild again. That's where most of our confidence starts to wane.

Do they still have it in them for one more run?

Then we are in much more trouble than we thought. Pete's philosophy works when you have the players and talent to execute it, but it fails miserably (as we have seen) when you don't. This team sure doesn't and wont have the horses for that show for some time. Lean times ahead because we have a coach that refuses to change and adapt. This has been the problem all along and why the team has under achieved.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The more I think about it the more I realize that Pete's affinity to the defense is going to make it really difficult to win with the offense if the defense cannot.

Which means the guy with the trade Wilson thread was probably right. We should have traded Wilson and reloaded our defense. People would have gone crazy but the Viking showed, you can win with a decent but not great QB.