espn ranks nfl qbs

[Popeyejones]

Well you are entitled to your OPINION, but the facts do not agree with them, at least as it relates to #3 the other 2 are pure speculation

I think we might disagree about what "fact" means, but yes, absolutely, my opinions which I stated as opinions are definitely opinions. :lol: :2thumbs:

And just as a point of clarification, my post is more "conjecture" than opinion, as I'm trying to get inside the heads of the 50 professionals who had him at an average of #10.

My "opinion" is at the bottom of the post in which I said that I think he's still arrow up and will end the year higher on the list than he is right now.

 

[Anthony!]

In order to be a pocket passer you need to be given a pocket to pass from...........

Yeah, we've been around this ferris wheel many times before and people just end up pissed at me or anyone else who says that's not the full story.

In brief (and I'll leave it at this explanation as I have no interest in derailing this thread into being about how much I suck) I'm refering to (1) what Wilson does when he does have a pocket, and (2) what Wilson does when he enters the pocket.

As (I think) Robert Mays pointed out about a month ago when The Ringer did their QB rankings and had Wilson at 10, the hawks use a lot of gadget throws and throws from the top of the pocket, which in itself tells you what they think about Wilson from the pocket when it is there (fwiw it doesn't have anything to do with his height -- see Drew Brees).



:2thumbs:

Or it says they don't trust the oline enough to run a normal offense, but hey let go with the negative possibility even though the fact show the oline is much much more likely

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Wilson is no worse than the 5th best QB in the league

The stats prove otherwise, and that's what you use to do these sort of rankings.

Like I said, he's a bubble tier one, so I could buy your #5, could certainly make a case for it. But the stats say he's still in that tier 2. If he wants to slam the door shut on the "elite" or "tier one" debate, then he's going to have to consistently stay in the 4,000-5,000 yard range, 30-40 TD and 100 passer rating year after year.

 

[Popeyejones]

Or it says they don't trust the oline enough to run a normal offense, but hey let go with the negative possibility even though the fact show the oline is much much more likely

Mays, like myself, both more than acknowledges the problems with the O-line while also discussing areas for improvement beyond the O-line.

We could do the same thing for Luck, Kaepernick last year, Flacco, Stafford, Rodgers, Brady, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Rat]

I'm actually OK with the rankings, Russell's doesn't belong in tier one just yet.......he's definitely at the top of the tier 2 QB's for me, but not quite in the same conversation as guys like Ryan, Brady and Rodgers when it comes to the mental understanding of the game.

But he's close, and from what I've seen in the preseason, if Russell can actually stay upright, he's going to be in that tier one next year.

This is where I'm at. I think he should be higher in tier 2, but I'm not convinced he's a tier 1 right now. If there was a tier 1B, I think that'd be the place for him. I might have Ryan there too.

I know you didn't say either of these next two things, but I don't feel like making two separate posts for it:

As for Luck, eh. I know we're all supposed to hate him because he was more hyped than Russ and often still is, but I can understand why he'd be loved by front office guys. He fits any offense and is a plus at basically every QB attribute, plus he's one of the most humble star players in sports. Do I think he's better than Wilson? No, but I think he's better than a lot in here give him credit for.

And Roethilsberger? Clearly Tier One. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.

 

[DJrmb]

This reeks of sour grapes to me from those that passed on Wilson in the draft.

That doesn't seem to be hurting Tom Brady too much, who was taken three rounds after Wilson

Nobody is left in any front office from when he was drafted.

...and Brady has been discussed as a top tier QB for well over a decade now, even back when all those people still had jobs.

Trust me, if Wilson was consistently putting up 4.5K yards and 35+ TDs a year he'd be higher in these rankings.

That people are undervaluing him because their jealous of the Seahawks is weird fan logic that doesn't really hold, IMO.

[And with my opinions stated and my welcome worn out, I'll let the thread breath a little )

Actually I remember Brady early on not getting his due either. It's only now that he's won as much as he has that he is argued as the best QB and probable GOAT. It's called proof by preponderance of evidence. Nobody can argue against Brady now because he's put up so many numbers for so many years. Brady wasn't even considered ahead of Peyton Manning by a lot of people until recently.

As for 4.5k yards and 35+ touchdown years that has to be one of the most ignorant arguments I've heard. If consistently throwing for 4500 yards and 35+ TDs is your bench mark then how do you have Brady as the best QB? Brady didn't do that until his 8th season in the NFL. And in Brady's 17 years career he's done that 3 times, and Never back to back. So maybe you should adjust your "good QB's throw for 4500 yards and 35 TDs consistently" argument to fit your opinion better.

 

[AgentDib]

Seahawks fans have a ton of reasons for it, but last year Wilson played the full season and...

Why the qualification about Seahawks fans? Do 49er fans view multiple injuries as a beneficial factor for QB performance? I think you could replace that with "Any reasonable person.." but then the rest of your blathering would look a bit silly.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

thx for the laugh ESPN

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Any list that has Russ at 10 is not even worth looking at :roll:
Good, please keep telling him what he can't do etc. He could win 5 rings and people wouldn't give him the respect. Oh well, I guarantee the players don't see him as the 10th best QB in football. Between 5-7 is much more realistic. Derek Carr? Really? Stafford? This list is hilarious. So winning clearly has nothing to do with being considered a top notch QB. You get a bunch of yards and win absolutely nothing, especially in the playoffs, that magically makes you one of the best? :roll:

Put MOST of the guys on this list on the Hawks and you wouldn't see near the success that they have had w/him under center.

 

[DJrmb]

Any list that has Russ at 10 is not even worth looking at :roll:
Good, please keep telling him what he can't do etc. He could win 5 rings and people wouldn't give him the respect. Oh well, I guarantee the players don't see him as the 10th best QB in football. Between 5-7 is much more realistic. Derek Carr? Really?

I agree.

I hope that Doug Baldwin prints the article out and tapes it to Russell's locker for the season... :snack:

 

[harryjohnson]

This is precisely what the Hawks need. Disrespect. They feed on it.

 

[Anthony!]

Or it says they don't trust the oline enough to run a normal offense, but hey let go with the negative possibility even though the fact show the oline is much much more likely

Mays, like myself, both more than acknowledges the problems with the O-line while also discussing areas for improvement beyond the O-line.

We could do the same thing for Luck, Kaepernick last year, Flacco, Stafford, Rodgers, Brady, etc., etc., etc.

except all of them had oline that avg way higher in pass blocking than Wilson, just an an example since 2012 the avg pass blocking for those Qbs is as follows Footballoutsider.com

Luck 14th
Flacco 9th
Stafford 15th
Rodgers 19th
Brady 7th
Wilson 26th


Yeah so no not even close. Wilson has never had an oline rnake higher than 20th some of this Qb never had an oline ranked worse than 18th. Every QB on this list had an oline ranked in the top 10 at least once but Wilson. Every Qb on this list had a oline ranked top 15 at least twice but Wilson. So nope sorry not even close

 

[ducks41468]

These rankings always seem to give too much credit to QB's putting up inflated numbers on perennially mediocre teams (Stafford, Luck, Rivers, even Brees the last few years) just because they spend most of the game passing the ball to compensate for their soft defenses. These guys naturally have more TD's because they have multiple games a year where they throw a meaningless 4th quarter TD with 1 minute left in the game to turn a 31-17 game into a 31-24 game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, yardage and TD's don't equal winning and/or success for many guys out there. Often they are playing from behind and/or against very soft defenses.

 

[TwilightError]

I'm fine with this ranking. I also hope it puts some fuel to RW's fire.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Not a QB in the league I'd trade him for. That's all the ranking I need.

 

[Sports Hernia]

This reeks of sour grapes to me from those that passed on Wilson in the draft.

That doesn't seem to be hurting Tom Brady too much, who was taken three rounds after Wilson

That's a bad comp IMHO. As much as I dislike Shady Brady, he has won quite a few Lombardi trophys so it's hard to not give him credit as one of the best.

FWIW, I view lists like this the way I view power rankings, I don't put any stock in them whether they are pro or con on my team/players.

 

[Seymour]

That doesn't seem to be hurting Tom Brady too much, who was taken three rounds after Wilson

Nobody is left in any front office from when he was drafted.

...and Brady has been discussed as a top tier QB for well over a decade now, even back when all those people still had jobs.

Trust me, if Wilson was consistently putting up 4.5K yards and 35+ TDs a year he'd be higher in these rankings.

That people are undervaluing him because their jealous of the Seahawks is weird fan logic that doesn't really hold, IMO.

[And with my opinions stated and my welcome worn out, I'll let the thread breath a little )

Actually I remember Brady early on not getting his due either. It's only now that he's won as much as he has that he is argued as the best QB and probable GOAT. It's called proof by preponderance of evidence. Nobody can argue against Brady now because he's put up so many numbers for so many years. Brady wasn't even considered ahead of Peyton Manning by a lot of people until recently.

As for 4.5k yards and 35+ touchdown years that has to be one of the most ignorant arguments I've heard. If consistently throwing for 4500 yards and 35+ TDs is your bench mark then how do you have Brady as the best QB? Brady didn't do that until his 8th season in the NFL. And in Brady's 17 years career he's done that 3 times, and Never back to back. So maybe you should adjust your "good QB's throw for 4500 yards and 35 TDs consistently" argument to fit your opinion better.

Agree.
There are also no ratings I'm aware of that take into account his running numbers either. That gets TD's, 1st downs, and most importantly W's. But why take that into consideration...."winning isn't everything". :roll:

 

[Steve2222]

Wilson is no worse than the 5th best QB in the league

The stats prove otherwise, and that's what you use to do these sort of rankings.

Like I said, he's a bubble tier one, so I could buy your #5, could certainly make a case for it. But the stats say he's still in that tier 2. If he wants to slam the door shut on the "elite" or "tier one" debate, then he's going to have to consistently stay in the 4,000-5,000 yard range, 30-40 TD and 100 passer rating year after year.

And by stats are you just going off passing yards and TDs?

What are the advanced metrics?
What is his pressure percentage compared to other QBs?
Where does PFF rate his OL compared to the other QBs?
How about his OL destroying him causing him to play the whole season with two very limiting injuries?
How about three of those QBs listed above them playing 9 games a year in a dome?

I'm sorry but there are more factors than just stats when determining these rankings

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

I've often thought that RW doesn't get ANY credit at all for his running stats. Last seasons injuries slowed him down a little, but of all the QB's listed ahead of him in this ranking, none are the running threat that RW is and it seems like that is NEVER acknowledged. Statistically, total offense is a better measuring stick IMO. Really good duel threat QB's are a rare commodity in todays NFL and the vast majority of "experts" only want to see high volume pocket passers these days (regardless of win/loss records). I firmly believe RW, if he can stay uninjured, is ready for a breakout season and wins MVP. Put that in your pipe and smoke it ESPN.