espn ranks nfl qbs

[Anthony!]

You are virtually the only one on this board saying this. There is nothing to turn around from, and nothing to re-emerge as, unless again you are expecting a growth spurt.

I know there are reasons for it and there's no point in rehashing them, but on this point I think you're gilding the lily in your objections.

The thing to "turn around from" is that if you stripped their names from their stat lines last year you couldn't differentiate Russell Wilson from Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, or Sam Bradford, and if you could, you'd likely put Wilson in the bottom two of them.

Every single person on this board -- myself included -- thinks Wilson is obviously heads and shoulders better than these three guys, but last year (again, for reasons we don't need to rehash) he didn't play like it.

That's the thing to "turn around from" that semiahmoo is talking about.

:2thumbs:

Well said.

LOL this is such a far cry from the BS you wrote LOL, and even it ignores the obvious facts around last year, a year were RW still set team records, despite his many injuries and lack of support. LOL

 

[Anthony!]

In order to be a pocket passer you need to be given a pocket to pass from...........

Yeah, we've been around this ferris wheel many times before and people just end up pissed at me or anyone else who says that's not the full story.

In brief (and I'll leave it at this explanation as I have no interest in derailing this thread into being about how much I suck) I'm refering to (1) what Wilson does when he does have a pocket, and (2) what Wilson does when he enters the pocket.

As (I think) Robert Mays pointed out about a month ago when The Ringer did their QB rankings and had Wilson at 10, the hawks use a lot of gadget throws and throws from the top of the pocket, which in itself tells you what they think about Wilson from the pocket when it is there (fwiw it doesn't have anything to do with his height -- see Drew Brees).



:2thumbs:

Popeye's analysis plus some tweets I've seen from Andy Benoit and other football "analysis" has shed some light on what it is exactly that is keeping Wilson down that has nothing to do with his height (at least directly) or "hate".

Wilson is an anomaly QB in two ways:

a) Containment instead of an extremely powerful pass rush is often more effective against him - we've all seen him dodge unblocked pass rushers and turn it into a big play that nobody else is seemingly capable of doing. That Lions MNF game two years ago was a prime example of that. As such, teams improving the way they rush Wilson has brought good results for them.

b) Wilson throwing the ball in that 1.5-2.0 second (loose numbers, not exact) is pretty good. If he's forced to hold onto it, he doesn't usually exploit that extra time like you would hope....in the pocket. Given enough time and if Baldwin or Graham or Lockett can break free on the scramble drill, he can find them. But just buying extra time to find the guy he doesn't connect like he should.

I also read on here that certain throws over the middle are not his forte as discovered by the Rams, 2015 season opener.

There are numerous little things with Wilson that all seem to revolve around pocket awareness/utilization.

People like to hate on Wilson with respect to him "falling off" if he loses his mobility. For me, if he ever lost his deep ball, I'd be very concerned.

well, thats is a minute I can't get back and all garbage lets forget he has always had one of the best QB ratings and complt% in the pocket, I mean why should facts matter.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I like Turtles

 

[SoulfishHawk]

If I see him getting a bunch of passes knocked down, I'll be more concerned. He does just fine as he is, better than most.

 

[semiahmoo]

Yeah, his deep ball is really a thing of beauty, and gawwwwd, the touch on it too.

Wilson throws the prettiest deep ball in the NFL, IMO.

Rodgers has gotten lucky on some bombs as of late, but all things considered Wilson is my favorite deep ball thrower in the NFL.

Yup. A def. strength for sure.

 

[erik2690]

Since 2012, inside and outside of pocket DVOA. No stat tells a complete story but DVOA has merits. Wilson top 5 in both. 1st from outside the pocket.

The problem with semiahmoo is that he seems to think that not getting to the SB means the QB didn't play well that season. It's rare to get to the SB. I don't really know how that isn't appreciated. The Pats level of getting there is insane and the still have taken 3 year breaks in the Brady era. And that's a giant outlier of success. I've seen him post several times as if 2015 wasn't a good season for RW b/c they lost to the Panthers. Fairly non-logical stuff. 2016 was the only season of his career where he wasn't very clearly above average in almost every category. It just so happens to a season where he was very injured. What a coincidence huh? This narrative that 2016 was the furthering of some decline is insane, his 2015 was great.

 

[semiahmoo]

Where he really suffers (perhaps due to lack of height?) is Red Zone where all great QB's are truly made.

Russ is at the bottom there and needs to improve.

Hoping this season he does.

 

[Anthony!]

Where he really suffers (perhaps due to lack of height?) is Red Zone where all great QB's are truly made.

Russ is at the bottom there and needs to improve.

Hoping this season he does.

Again no proof it is a height issue, and there have been and are plenty of supposed great QBs who are worse, so more agenda BS.

 

[hawk45]

Where he really suffers (perhaps due to lack of height?) is Red Zone where all great QB's are truly made.

Russ is at the bottom there and needs to improve.

Hoping this season he does.

Again no proof it is a height issue, and there have been and are plenty of supposed great QBs who are worse, so more agenda BS.

You cannot look at his RZ % being killed by Ryan Tannehill and still think this is an area of strength for him can you?

My God man, yes there may be mitigating factors but RZ completion percentage is a perfectly valid basis for QB comparison and discussion. No one claims it tells the whole story. Quit polluting the discussion with accusations.

You accusing another poster of having an agenda is just mind blowing.

 

[Anthony!]

Where he really suffers (perhaps due to lack of height?) is Red Zone where all great QB's are truly made.

Russ is at the bottom there and needs to improve.

Hoping this season he does.

Again no proof it is a height issue, and there have been and are plenty of supposed great QBs who are worse, so more agenda BS.

You cannot look at his RZ % being killed by Ryan Tannehill and still think this is an area of strength for him can you?

My God man, yes there may be mitigating factors but RZ completion percentage is a perfectly valid basis for QB comparison and discussion. No one claims it tells the whole story. Quit polluting the discussion with accusations.

You accusing another poster of having an agenda is just mind blowing.

DUde you obviously have not been following his very long he has always pushed the RW is not good agenda and his height, GO back and look it is obvious and again I never said we do not have issues in the redzone only that it is not because of his height or all on Rw notice he says nothing about any other factor only Rw and he never does. notice it always comes back to height. My accusing is based on his history of posting here.

 

[Seymour]

Where he really suffers (perhaps due to lack of height?) is Red Zone where all great QB's are truly made.

Russ is at the bottom there and needs to improve.

Hoping this season he does.

Again no proof it is a height issue, and there have been and are plenty of supposed great QBs who are worse, so more agenda BS.

You cannot look at his RZ % being killed by Ryan Tannehill and still think this is an area of strength for him can you?

My God man, yes there may be mitigating factors but RZ completion percentage is a perfectly valid basis for QB comparison and discussion. No one claims it tells the whole story. Quit polluting the discussion with accusations.

You accusing another poster of having an agenda is just mind blowing.

DUde you obviously have not been following his very long he has always pushed the RW is not good agenda and his height, GO back and look it is obvious and again I never said we do not have issues in the redzone only that it is not because of his height or all on Rw notice he says nothing about any other factor only Rw and he never does. notice it always comes back to height. My accusing is based on his history of posting here.

Nope, not true. It was about his weight until Russell dropped some lbs, and now it has changed to height.

It's really more about not liking Wilson, period.

I suggest you just find another subject to obsess on though because you are oxygen to the flames.

 

[semiahmoo]

It has always been weight and height.

Pay attention.

Wilson's height demands he keep the weight off and remain as quick as possible. He failed to do that coming into last season and with that crap O-Line paid a steep price.

He learned his lesson and reported to camp much slimmer than last year. Of concern, though, is he doesn't appear as quick as he once was. That's normal given he's older. He'll be 29 this year and that's a 29 that has logged some hard miles in the league. Given he's not a natural pocket style QB who relies on scrambling, the challenges he faces are considerable to keep his game at the level he and Seahawk fans hope for.

A more competent O-Line will certainly help a great deal.

Yet, RW's red zone issues go back more than a few seasons indicating his lack of height might be the primary reason. He'll never overcome this but he can learn to manage it better. That requires trust in his own ability to deliver the ball and his receivers to come up with the catch. RW trusts Baldwin and the results have been pretty darn good.

Perhaps this season that full trust is extended to Jimmy. If so, and RW can improve his red zone targeting, it'll make for some fun touchdown celebrations and likely a legit run deep into the playoffs.

If not, the cookie will continue to crumble and as much as some don't want to hear it, the decline will continue and the Carroll era will truly enter its sunset phase.

I don't want that to happen but see it as a very real possibility.

 

[hawk45]

I'm waiting to evaluate his quickness until the regular season and he needs to outrun a linebacker. I agree quickness is more important for him than QBs who have demonstrated more subtle pocket manipulation.

Also agree that a better red zone connection with Jimmy could do a lot to improve our offense there. By full trust I figure you mean finding the right placement (high, one would think) to where a bracketed Jimmy gets the target over a single-covered Kearse every time, which is how I'd like to see it.

 

[semiahmoo]

I'm waiting to evaluate his quickness until the regular season and he needs to outrun a linebacker. I agree quickness is more important for him than QBs who have demonstrated more subtle pocket manipulation.

Also agree that a better red zone connection with Jimmy could do a lot to improve our offense there. By full trust I figure you mean finding the right placement (high, one would think) to where a bracketed Jimmy gets the target over a single-covered Kearse every time, which is how I'd like to see it.

No more attempts to Kearse.

I'm liking that.

 

[Anthony!]

It has always been weight and height.

Pay attention.

Wilson's height demands he keep the weight off and remain as quick as possible. He failed to do that coming into last season and with that crap O-Line paid a steep price.

He learned his lesson and reported to camp much slimmer than last year. Of concern, though, is he doesn't appear as quick as he once was. That's normal given he's older. He'll be 29 this year and that's a 29 that has logged some hard miles in the league. Given he's not a natural pocket style QB who relies on scrambling, the challenges he faces are considerable to keep his game at the level he and Seahawk fans hope for.

A more competent O-Line will certainly help a great deal.

Yet, RW's red zone issues go back more than a few seasons indicating his lack of height might be the primary reason. He'll never overcome this but he can learn to manage it better. That requires trust in his own ability to deliver the ball and his receivers to come up with the catch. RW trusts Baldwin and the results have been pretty darn good.

Perhaps this season that full trust is extended to Jimmy. If so, and RW can improve his red zone targeting, it'll make for some fun touchdown celebrations and likely a legit run deep into the playoffs.

If not, the cookie will continue to crumble and as much as some don't want to hear it, the decline will continue and the Carroll era will truly enter its sunset phase.

I don't want that to happen but see it as a very real possibility.

ukeface:

 

[semiahmoo]

I'm waiting to evaluate his quickness until the regular season and he needs to outrun a linebacker. I agree quickness is more important for him than QBs who have demonstrated more subtle pocket manipulation.

Also agree that a better red zone connection with Jimmy could do a lot to improve our offense there. By full trust I figure you mean finding the right placement (high, one would think) to where a bracketed Jimmy gets the target over a single-covered Kearse every time, which is how I'd like to see it.

You are wise.

Enjoy reading your contributions.