Everyone's blaming Bevell, but......

[lobohawk]

My main issue with Bevell is he seems to stick with plans that depend on at least average blocking and when it isn't there, he still runs the plays. Where are the plays that take into account when things are going badly upfront. For example...I know there weren't many plays, but hardly any pass attempts were roll-outs or moving the pocket.

 

[mrt144]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I agree with this post and want to add Russ was holding the ball too long on a few plays last night.It's funny in OT he turns that problem off when in hurry up mode..So there is that

Maybe a third of that is on the playcalls and receiver seperation, but you also saw RW with multiple throw aways after 2 reads, something he has been loathe to do for 4 seasons. Dude was still at 64% completion rate regardless and didnt turn it over.

 

[johnnyfever]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I agree with this post and want to add Russ was holding the ball too long on a few plays last night.It's funny in OT he turns that problem off when in hurry up mode..So there is that

I still want to see what stat shows us as the "#1 offense in the last 6 weeks"

 

[12thbrah]

Jesus could be calling our plays and our offensive line would still get holding penalties.

 

[mrt144]

My main issue with Bevell is he seems to stick with plans that depend on at least average blocking and when it isn't there, he still runs the plays. Where are the plays that take into account when things are going badly upfront. For example...I know there weren't many plays, but hardly any pass attempts were roll-outs or moving the pocket.

Holding penalties dont go away on those.

 

[StoneCold]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201610231 ... playbyplay

I am just not seeing Bevel as the problem when I read the play by play. We we're using the short passing game and the occasional run. Almost every series ended because of a penalty or dropped pass.

 

[12thbrah]

My main issue with Bevell is he seems to stick with plans that depend on at least average blocking and when it isn't there, he still runs the plays. Where are the plays that take into account when things are going badly upfront. For example...I know there weren't many plays, but hardly any pass attempts were roll-outs or moving the pocket.

Holding penalties dont go away on those.

Holding penalties are actually more frequent when rolling out or leaving the pocket. Many of the ticky tack calls from last night came from Wilson leaving the pocket too early.

 

[FortWorthSeahawk]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I agree with this post and want to add Russ was holding the ball too long on a few plays last night.It's funny in OT he turns that problem off when in hurry up mode..So there is that

I still want to see what stat shows us as the "#1 offense in the last 6 weeks"

I'm pretty sure by "last 6 weeks" he meant the last 6 weeks of last season and not weeks 2-7 of this season.

 

[mrt144]

My main issue with Bevell is he seems to stick with plans that depend on at least average blocking and when it isn't there, he still runs the plays. Where are the plays that take into account when things are going badly upfront. For example...I know there weren't many plays, but hardly any pass attempts were roll-outs or moving the pocket.

Holding penalties dont go away on those.

Holding penalties are actually more frequent when rolling out or leaving the pocket. Many of the ticky tack calls from last night came from Wilson leaving the pocket too early.

Or you could argue, the OL's skillset is so bare that they don't know how to block for RW who makes an evasive maneuver to prevent a certain sack a frequent amount of the time. While his ability to be evasive is diminished he is far and away a talent you plan around, warts and all. As I keep reiterating, the marginal gains RW can make in his position are minimal at this point, where as the OL has so much room to improve.

 

[Treghc]

Seriously, go 11 Personnel, use the TE to chip then run route, and run the 11 Personnel the vast majority of time to obfuscate the playcalls themselves. Running these 5 wide empty sets against press coverage with an o line that cant stop outside pressure getting home is just frustrating yourself for no reason.

No no no, it's on the players for not executing those empty sets against good to great defenses. On third and long...

Shame they always got to third and long thanks to holding on the o-line.

The problem is with the o-line first. There's no way around it. They're absolutely vital. You can throw short passes when the defense is playing for them and you can't throw long passes because the o-line is whiff ingredients left and right. The run game had splashes of decency, but that was it. No amount of play calling or the fabled "adjustments" would have fixed much of anything.

With a healthy Wilson, this o-line might be able to get away with a tad bit more, but there absolutely zero doubt that they are the worst in the entire league when it comes to pass protection. Any time a play was made, it got called back for holding. Just in the third quarter alone, there were at least three separate drives where we had 3rd and 20+. You don't get there from bad play calling. You get there from penalties and a poor o-line.

Bevell can call games just fine. He's not perfect and he has his bad days, but there's no reason to fire him.

 

[xgeoff]

Seriously, go 11 Personnel, use the TE to chip then run route, and run the 11 Personnel the vast majority of time to obfuscate the playcalls themselves. Running these 5 wide empty sets against press coverage with an o line that cant stop outside pressure getting home is just frustrating yourself for no reason.

This is actually a really good suggestion/observation. They actually did do this at least once and Jimmy Graham not only got a great chip on the end rusher but ran a crossing route and made a reception.

Bottom line is there are techniques that you can use and plays that you can call to help your line deal with a pass rush.

 

[WilsonMVP]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I hate how people say ...oh this offense was tops in the NFL last year...YA the LAST PART of the year when they actually went to the offense we should of been running the whole time Wilson has been here. If it wasnt for how amazing Lynch was at breaking tackles and how good Wilson is at both running and escaping to make big plays Bevell would of been shitcanned years ago

Now that Lynch isnt here to bail out our crap Oline and Wilson cant run all over the place Bevell is being exposed as the average at best OC he is

boo hoo our Oline sucks...Well guess what...The Patriots seem to be just fine with plugging whoever the hell they want as an OL and doing ok. They plan around it, they dont try to force stuff that wont work. Wilson can be just as good as Brady at getting the ball out super quick

 

[Largent80]

Over reaction Monday Special First Time Ever Hawks Tie Edition.

 

[mrt144]

Bevell can call games just fine. He's not perfect and he has his bad days, but there's no reason to fire him.

Can we get him a helper monkey

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I hate how people say ...oh this offense was tops in the NFL last year...YA the LAST PART of the year when they actually went to the offense we should of been running the whole time Wilson has been here. If it wasnt for how amazing Lynch was at breaking tackles and how good Wilson is at both running and escaping to make big plays Bevell would of been shitcanned years ago

Now that Lynch isnt here to bail out our crap Oline and Wilson cant run all over the place Bevell is being exposed as the average at best OC he is

We were actually a better offense after Lynch went down last year.

And yes, when you have a healthy Russell Wilson, healthy WR's, healthy TE's, healthy RB's and a solid O-line your offense will play better. What a concept.

 

[HawkGA]

Seriously, go 11 Personnel, use the TE to chip then run route, and run the 11 Personnel the vast majority of time to obfuscate the playcalls themselves. Running these 5 wide empty sets against press coverage with an o line that cant stop outside pressure getting home is just frustrating yourself for no reason.

I seem to recall a big play to Graham when they did exactly that. Perhaps more than once would be a good idea.

 

[mrt144]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I hate how people say ...oh this offense was tops in the NFL last year...YA the LAST PART of the year when they actually went to the offense we should of been running the whole time Wilson has been here. If it wasnt for how amazing Lynch was at breaking tackles and how good Wilson is at both running and escaping to make big plays Bevell would of been shitcanned years ago

Now that Lynch isnt here to bail out our crap Oline and Wilson cant run all over the place Bevell is being exposed as the average at best OC he is

We were actually a better offense after Lynch went down last year.

And yes, when you have a healthy Russell Wilson, healthy WR's, healthy TE's, healthy RB's and a solid O-line your offense will play better. What a concept.

Is Bevell creative enough to do without the full kit and caboodle. This is the the illogic at the base of Bevell apologetics - how many OCs wouldn't be successful with an injury free team at their disposal with the talent on the roster? How many OCs wouldn't be successful when his players don't drop passes and don't get holding penalties? By this reasoning he is a replacement level OC because everything, everything seemingly hinges on his players being in perfect health and making all the hard plays in spite of their talent deficiencies on the roster.

It's an extremely brittle way to approach it.

 

[Hawks46]

Seriously, go 11 Personnel, use the TE to chip then run route, and run the 11 Personnel the vast majority of time to obfuscate the playcalls themselves. Running these 5 wide empty sets against press coverage with an o line that cant stop outside pressure getting home is just frustrating yourself for no reason.

Exactly. I just don't understand why we're not going this way with the OL problems we're having.

Our Tackles are getting obliterated, so hey, let's not chip a guy or anything. Gee, go 5 wide and just huck it. That works !!

Ironically, 11 personnel was the formation the Cardinals used in OT when their TE got that big play. They were running it on us, wearing down the D and taking control. Then they hit us over the top when we're thinking run and our LBers are too tired to make up that read step they made towards the LOS. Gee, didn't we used to do that sort of thing ?

This is what I mean about Bevell having problems. As fans, we go into the game thinking "our Tackles suck, we should game plan that". In reality, you don't go into a game thinking your Tackles are going to suck. You're going to run your installed offense and see if your Tackles can handle it. Problem is, Arizona has a top 3 outside pass rushing tandem. Maybe even THE top. So, it's a likely scenario that one or both Tackles are going to get consistently beat. Yet, there were no provisions or back up plans to handle this. I didn't see anyone lining up to chip a guy. Vannett was supposed to be one of the best blocking TE's in the draft. Why aren't we using him ? Graham has also been a better blocker, and using him to chip would be ideal as he wouldn't have to hold a block against an athletic OLB, just chip him then go out.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Is Bevell creative enough to do without the full kit and caboodle. This is the the illogic at the base of Bevell apologetics - how many OCs wouldn't be successful with an injury free team at their disposal with the talent on the roster? How many OCs wouldn't be successful when his players don't drop passes and don't get holding penalties? By this reasoning he is a replacement level OC because everything, everything seemingly hinges on his players being in perfect health and making all the hard plays in spite of their talent deficiencies on the roster.

It's an extremely brittle way to approach it.

Bevell was creative enough at the end of last year when Marshawn went down and changed up the offense. But again, he had a healthy Russell and O-line that was coming together.........and most importantly Rawls who was playing out of his mind.

I'm not a Bevell apologist, he's not perfect by any means. But watching that offense yesterday, it was a mismatch from the first snap, they just couldn't match Arizona's intensity and quickness........compounded by a lot of penalties.

I don't think any scheme or playcalling change was fixing those issues.

 

[Hawks46]

Is Bevell creative enough to do without the full kit and caboodle. This is the the illogic at the base of Bevell apologetics - how many OCs wouldn't be successful with an injury free team at their disposal with the talent on the roster? How many OCs wouldn't be successful when his players don't drop passes and don't get holding penalties? By this reasoning he is a replacement level OC because everything, everything seemingly hinges on his players being in perfect health and making all the hard plays in spite of their talent deficiencies on the roster.

It's an extremely brittle way to approach it.

Bevell was creative enough at the end of last year when Marshawn went down and changed up the offense. But again, he had a healthy Russell and O-line that was coming together.........and most importantly Rawls who was playing out of his mind.

I'm not a Bevell apologist, he's not perfect by any means. But watching that offense yesterday, it was a mismatch from the first snap, they just couldn't match Arizona's intensity and quickness........compounded by a lot of penalties.

I don't think any scheme or playcalling change was fixing those issues.

So you don't think running and throwing out of 2 TE sets would've helped at all ? Keep a TE in to chip at least ONE of the edge rushers, then leak him out into the flat ? Run with 2 TE sets and PA to Graham ?

The mystifying thing to me is that we didn't even attempt it.