Everyone's blaming Bevell, but......

[mrt144]

Is Bevell creative enough to do without the full kit and caboodle. This is the the illogic at the base of Bevell apologetics - how many OCs wouldn't be successful with an injury free team at their disposal with the talent on the roster? How many OCs wouldn't be successful when his players don't drop passes and don't get holding penalties? By this reasoning he is a replacement level OC because everything, everything seemingly hinges on his players being in perfect health and making all the hard plays in spite of their talent deficiencies on the roster.

It's an extremely brittle way to approach it.

Bevell was creative enough at the end of last year when Marshawn went down and changed up the offense. But again, he had a healthy Russell and O-line that was coming together.........and most importantly Rawls who was playing out of his mind.

I'm not a Bevell apologist, he's not perfect by any means. But watching that offense yesterday, it was a mismatch from the first snap, they just couldn't match Arizona's intensity and quickness........compounded by a lot of penalties.

I don't think any scheme or playcalling change was fixing those issues.

I think the penalties and the reason they were commited in the first place is the root of much of the offensive dysfunction no doubt. But that Bevell is seemingly having a redux of last season's journey is less than inspiring. Sure, we can hold out hope that it'll click at some point cause it did last year but that we're in the same place as last year makes it that much harder to extend the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Largent80]

I loved (NOT) his choice to run CM up the gut on the last drive near the goal line instead of passing it which got us ALL the way down the field.

Why didn't he do that in XLIX......He's a jackass.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think the penalties and the reason they were commited in the first place is the root of much of the offensive dysfunction no doubt. But that Bevell is seemingly having a redux of last season's journey is less than inspiring. Sure, we can hold out hope that it'll click at some point cause it did last year but that we're in the same place as last year makes it that much harder to extend the benefit of the doubt.

If we can get guys healthy, Rawls back and the O-line gelling again........then there's no reason to think it won't happen again.

But if the injuries continue to hamper this offense? Then yeah, it's gonna be hit and miss the rest of the way. Which is why I'm worried, cause I honestly don't think Russell will be right until the off season.

 

[mrt144]

I think the penalties and the reason they were commited in the first place is the root of much of the offensive dysfunction no doubt. But that Bevell is seemingly having a redux of last season's journey is less than inspiring. Sure, we can hold out hope that it'll click at some point cause it did last year but that we're in the same place as last year makes it that much harder to extend the benefit of the doubt.

If we can get guys healthy, Rawls back and the O-line gelling again........then there's no reason to think it won't happen again.

But if the injuries continue to hamper this offense? Then yeah, it's gonna be hit and miss the rest of the way. Which is why I'm worried, cause I honestly don't think Russell will be right until the off season.

If the final assessment is that Bevell can't do anything to improve the situation because of the player limitations at the moment, how good an OC is he? This is similar to the Cable defenses - he's doing the best he can with what he has - maybe Cable's best isn't relatively the best to his peers?

 

[hawker84]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I hate how people say ...oh this offense was tops in the NFL last year...YA the LAST PART of the year when they actually went to the offense we should of been running the whole time Wilson has been here. If it wasnt for how amazing Lynch was at breaking tackles and how good Wilson is at both running and escaping to make big plays Bevell would of been shitcanned years ago

Now that Lynch isnt here to bail out our crap Oline and Wilson cant run all over the place Bevell is being exposed as the average at best OC he is

We were actually a better offense after Lynch went down last year.

And yes, when you have a healthy Russell Wilson, healthy WR's, healthy TE's, healthy RB's and a solid O-line your offense will play better. What a concept.

So how do you explain the last 6 weeks of last season. I'm assuming RW and the receivers were relatively healthy, but Graham was gone, Rawls and Lynch were gone and our O line was still bottom feeders.

You're saying yesterday's pathetic performance was due to injuries, but last year we thrived with injuries. And for the record, Baldwin and Kearse are not injured, Lockett and Graham may be dinged, but they sure didn't look like it in the 4th and OT? And we all saw in the last couple weeks prior to yesterday what a hobbled RW can do with some competent play calling, granted against lower caliber defenses.

So what is it, everyone's hurt which takes us full circle to the OP, or it's Bevell and Pete?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think the penalties and the reason they were commited in the first place is the root of much of the offensive dysfunction no doubt. But that Bevell is seemingly having a redux of last season's journey is less than inspiring. Sure, we can hold out hope that it'll click at some point cause it did last year but that we're in the same place as last year makes it that much harder to extend the benefit of the doubt.

If we can get guys healthy, Rawls back and the O-line gelling again........then there's no reason to think it won't happen again.

But if the injuries continue to hamper this offense? Then yeah, it's gonna be hit and miss the rest of the way. Which is why I'm worried, cause I honestly don't think Russell will be right until the off season.

If the final assessment is that Bevell can't do anything to improve the situation because of the player limitations at the moment, how good an OC is he? This is similar to the Cable defenses - he's doing the best he can with what he has - maybe Cable's best isn't relatively the best to his peers?

I said hit and miss, that's what you get with injured players and a huge deficiency at a very important unit like the O-line.

Our offense looked good against the Jets and Falcons (both good defenses at the time), does Bevell get your credit with all the same deficiencies and injuries we're talking about here?

Maybe I'm just more realistic with my expectations out of our coordinator going into an Arizona game they HAD to have with a fully healthy defense against our crippled offense at home playing for their conference lives.........and it showed.

 

[mrt144]

I think the penalties and the reason they were commited in the first place is the root of much of the offensive dysfunction no doubt. But that Bevell is seemingly having a redux of last season's journey is less than inspiring. Sure, we can hold out hope that it'll click at some point cause it did last year but that we're in the same place as last year makes it that much harder to extend the benefit of the doubt.

If we can get guys healthy, Rawls back and the O-line gelling again........then there's no reason to think it won't happen again.

But if the injuries continue to hamper this offense? Then yeah, it's gonna be hit and miss the rest of the way. Which is why I'm worried, cause I honestly don't think Russell will be right until the off season.

If the final assessment is that Bevell can't do anything to improve the situation because of the player limitations at the moment, how good an OC is he? This is similar to the Cable defenses - he's doing the best he can with what he has - maybe Cable's best isn't relatively the best to his peers?

I said hit and miss, that's what you get with injured players and a huge deficiency at a very important unit like the O-line.

Our offense looked good against the Jets and Falcons (both good defenses at the time), does Bevell get your credit with all the same deficiencies and injuries we're talking about here?

Maybe I'm just more realistic with my expectations out of our coordinator going into an Arizona game they HAD to have with a fully healthy defense against our crippled offense at home playing for their conference lives.........and it showed.

Absolutely gets credit for the gamecalls against the falcons and jets although I'd argue to some extent, their defenses won't be validated as 'good' by season end. He just doesn't seem prepared for adversity when it hits him in the mouth at game time. Dynamic adjustments aren't his strong suit. It's why I keep saying it is strong yet brittle. With healthy players and decent protection Bevell's gameplans can and do work, sometimes amazingly well like when we roasted the cards with 2 seam routes alone. But when he gets popped in the mouth and we're not burried up to our neck in adversity in the crucible of a game winning drive opportunity, we just look rudderless.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here? Does he have naked pics of Pete? Did he secretly give Pete one of his kidneys?

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period. Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

I hate how people say ...oh this offense was tops in the NFL last year...YA the LAST PART of the year when they actually went to the offense we should of been running the whole time Wilson has been here. If it wasnt for how amazing Lynch was at breaking tackles and how good Wilson is at both running and escaping to make big plays Bevell would of been shitcanned years ago

Now that Lynch isnt here to bail out our crap Oline and Wilson cant run all over the place Bevell is being exposed as the average at best OC he is

We were actually a better offense after Lynch went down last year.

And yes, when you have a healthy Russell Wilson, healthy WR's, healthy TE's, healthy RB's and a solid O-line your offense will play better. What a concept.

So how do you explain the last 6 weeks of last season. I'm assuming RW and the receivers were relatively healthy, but Graham was gone, Rawls and Lynch were gone and our O line was still bottom feeders.

You're saying yesterday's pathetic performance was due to injuries, but last year we thrived with injuries. And for the record, Baldwin and Kearse are not injured, Lockett and Graham may be dinged, but they sure didn't look like it in the 4th and OT? And we all saw in the last couple weeks prior to yesterday what a hobbled RW can do with some competent play calling, granted against lower caliber defenses.

So what is it, everyone's hurt which takes us full circle to the OP, or it's Bevell and Pete?

I'm saying our pathetic effort was the collective fault of injuries, HORRIFIC execution, penalties, drops (3 of 4 first downs in the first half lost due to drops), playcalling and going against a defense loaded for bear.

You guys are the one's saying only one person's is at fault, like "better" playcalling (whatever that means) fixes all these major problems..........and if you're not saying that, that it's a group effort why only bang the fire Bevell drum? Where's the criticism for the drops, penalties, terrible O-line play, WR's that can't get separation, Graham who doesn't finish routes, a substandard RB that'll never be a premier back and Russell making the wrong decisions?

Where are all those threads?

 

[hawker84]

I'm saying our pathetic effort was the collective fault of injuries, HORRIFIC execution, penalties, drops (3 of 4 first downs in the first half lost due to drops), playcalling and going against a defense loaded for bear.

You guys are the one's saying only one person's is at fault, like "better" playcalling (whatever that means) fixes all these major problems..........and if you're not saying that, that it's a group effort why only bang the fire Bevell drum? Where's the criticism for the drops, penalties, terrible O-line play, WR's that can't get separation, Graham who doesn't finish routes, a substandard RB that'll never be a premier back and Russell making the wrong decisions?

Where are all those threads?

I agree with all that bud, absolutely no argument that all you listed contributed to last night. My criticism of Bevell does not stem from just last night. I've seen a pattern with him since day one of the RW era. Slow starts to the season, slow starts to the games, slow to make in-game adjustments. And that dates back to when we had Pro Bowlers on the line, and a potential HOF in the backfield....

We know ourselves as a second half team, why is that? Because Bevell and Pete draw out a game plan, and regardless if it's successful or not they stick to it until they can't anymore. Usually because we're down and time is running out. I've seen it week after week, year after year.

Not to say they haven't came up with good ones at times, they have, but the bad starts far outweigh the good ones up till now.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

Interesting enough piece, 'Grading the Seahawks' at FirldGulls by Casey Castle

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/10/24/13 ... te-carroll

 

[cymatica]

Can anyone defending bevell or anyone not frustrated with him respond to the multiple posts regarding 11 personel and TE chipping. Havent seen one reason why that would be a bad idea.

Can you also tell us how running empty sets with bad tackles against a base nickel def and great edge rushers was a good plan?

 

[mrt144]

All I can do is laugh at the Bevell haters. For one, even if you do hate him, bitching about him after each game does nothing. Didn't it get old like two years ago? It's the same thing over and over. It reminds me of my husky hoops board where everyone wants Romar fired. You can protest all you want, but it isn't going to happen. IT AIN'T HAPPENING. Get it through your head, Bevell isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so just save your breath and talk about something else.

I think at times Bevell has some bad moments, but last night was not his problem. We were literally without a LT for part of the game. Russell is banged up. Other than Baldwin and Graham, none of our receivers can get open. Lockett has been on the back of a milk carton for the past month now. Kearse is Kearse. I'd like to see more of PRich or McEvoy.

Catharsis never gets old.

 

[WindCityHawk]

Even last night aside, I can't believe there are still people defending Bevell.

If we opened up the position, we'd probably have some of the best minds in football lining up for the opportunity to coach Russ, Rawls, and Graham.

I have no faith that Bevell knows how to use his personnel.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Can anyone defending bevell or anyone not frustrated with him respond to the multiple posts regarding 11 personel and TE chipping. Havent seen one reason why that would be a bad idea.

Can you also tell us how running empty sets with bad tackles against a base nickel def and great edge rushers was a good plan?

I have no interest in defending Bevell. There are more than two views on the subject (I'll address your other question below). There is a large spectrum of positions on Coaches PC, DB, TC, and CR. Anyone who says Bevell is either "all of the problem" and calls for his head, or "none of the problem" and should continue without adjusting, is wrong. Reacting against either extreme (typically for this era in history) automatically categorizes you the opposite extreme. Welcome to reactionary America in the days of social media!

I can't speak to the 11 personnel exactly, but I'd be interested in anyone who can review the game to tell us how many times we actually lined up in that package. Was JG double-teamed? If so, remember that Russ rare throws anyone open, though he had begun to this year with Jimmy.

Empty sets are Russ's preference. He has said so on several occasions. If he had any input on the play-calls, he would love to spread things out. I realize he isn't the final word--Bevell is--but again, how many times did they throw from that grouping and what were the results? Down and distance matters, too.

Let's look at the data before we generalize anything.

 

[West TX Hawk]

Even last night aside, I can't believe there are still people defending Bevell.

If we opened up the position, we'd probably have some of the best minds in football lining up for the opportunity to coach Russ, Rawls, and Graham.

I have no faith that Bevell knows how to use his personnel.

This sums up my thoughts as well. With the talented players we do have on offense, even despite some injuries, we should simply be seeing better results. Even when they were all healthy, we should have seen better overall results. Only 111 points scored on the season-tied for dead last is completely unacceptable, especially with the athletes we have.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

All I can do is laugh at the Bevell haters. For one, even if you do hate him, bitching about him after each game does nothing. Didn't it get old like two years ago? It's the same thing over and over. It reminds me of my husky hoops board where everyone wants Romar fired. You can protest all you want, but it isn't going to happen. IT AIN'T HAPPENING. Get it through your head, Bevell isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so just save your breath and talk about something else.

I think at times Bevell has some bad moments, but last night was not his problem. We were literally without a LT for part of the game. Russell is banged up. Other than Baldwin and Graham, none of our receivers can get open. Lockett has been on the back of a milk carton for the past month now. Kearse is Kearse. I'd like to see more of PRich or McEvoy.

+1

A steady stream of eye candy throws, backlit by colorful rainbows tracing the football, thrown to unopposed wide-open receivers, caught for TD's, hopefully one-handed catches with somersaults into the end zone, is apparently what some fantasy-obsessed fans are furious they aren't getting their fixes of.

NFL reality is about hard-slogging grit, featuring highly motivated guys on both sides of every snap.

The Seahawk staff is as well aware of it as anybody else's professionals and their established record is Exhibit A.

 

[cymatica]

Anyone who says Bevell is either "all of the problem" and calls for his head, or "none of the problem" and should continue without adjusting, is wrong

Agree, i don't think he is all of the problem, but he is part of the problem, just like the o-line is part of the problem.

Empty sets are Russ's preference. He has said so on several occasions. If he had any input on the play-calls, he would love to spread things out.

Fine, mix in a few plays here and there with empty sets, even then you are declaring the pass. There are plenty of formations to spread the defense out that at least make your opponent guess run or pass.

Goes back to the point of adjusting, spreading out defense didnt work with no time to throw, no matter how much he likes it

 

[mrt144]

Can anyone defending bevell or anyone not frustrated with him respond to the multiple posts regarding 11 personel and TE chipping. Havent seen one reason why that would be a bad idea.

Can you also tell us how running empty sets with bad tackles against a base nickel def and great edge rushers was a good plan?

I have no interest in defending Bevell. There are more than two views on the subject (I'll address your other question below). There is a large spectrum of positions on Coaches PC, DB, TC, and CR. Anyone who says Bevell is either "all of the problem" and calls for his head, or "none of the problem" and should continue without adjusting, is wrong. Reacting against either extreme (typically for this era in history) automatically categorizes you the opposite extreme. Welcome to reactionary America in the days of social media!

I can't speak to the 11 personnel exactly, but I'd be interested in anyone who can review the game to tell us how many times we actually lined up in that package. Was JG double-teamed? If so, remember that Russ rare throws anyone open, though he had begun to this year with Jimmy.

Empty sets are Russ's preference. He has said so on several occasions. If he had any input on the play-calls, he would love to spread things out. I realize he isn't the final word--Bevell is--but again, how many times did they throw from that grouping and what were the results? Down and distance matters, too.

Let's look at the data before we generalize anything.

Just signed up for FO's premium charting data. Waiting on access being granted. See if there are answers in there.

 

[WmHBonney]

There is a reason that no other team has poached our OC like they poached our DCs the past couple of years. That tells me what I need to know.

 

[Ozzy]

This last point is one the very pro bevell crowd never answers. I don't think he is the main problem for sure but he's a part of the problem.