Fire Pete

[Uncle Si]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

It seems pretty hypocritical in all honesty.

Folks want it both ways

You mean it isn't a video game and we can't score 50-0 every week with 400yds passing and a 200yd rusher, with 2 defensive scores and a return for TD? You shattered my hopes and dreams!

Justafan nailed it though

Yeah the offense has struggled. People have been clamoring for a return to the glory days. This is how they started. And people want something else too

I do expect more from Russ and thats on the staff. But this isnt much different than early in his career. Just no magic scramble plays

 

[Fade]

5 straight years of getting worse.



Notice a trend yet?

 

[semiahmoo]

\we had a roster that would have made us a dynasty if not for Pete. Let that set in then tell me he should stay.



ukeface: ukeface: ukeface:

I sometimes wonder late at night right before sleep takes me what a coach like Belichick would have done with the almost-dynasty Seahawks.

Would we still be thrashing teams on our way to another almost-certain Super Bowl?

I'm PRETTY sure Seattle and New England have the same record right now.

You really want to compare these two teams' Super Bowl records since "the pass" of 2015?

Hint: one team has a SB record - the other hasn't sniffed a SB since then.

C'mon now, stop being silly.

One was a dynasty while the other could have been.

The real question is if the 2012 Seahawks were in fact more talented than any NE team during the Belichick era and if so, would a coach like Belichik have been far superior in building a longer-term winning franchise than what was accomplished by Pete Carroll?

Belichick (and Tom Brady and co.) has taken NE to the Super Bowl 8 times and won 5 during a remarkable 18-year run.

So, again, I wonder if a Belichick/Seahawks combo would have given similar or even better results given the incredible talent the Seahawks had during their peak years of 2013-2016. Would much of that team still be together and winning or would it have fallen apart regardless?

GO HAWKS!

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete is a defensive minded coach on a team with average defensive assets.

Worse, Pete is a great strategic coach but near worthless tactically on gameday. His entire success has been built on finding better athletes, empowering them, maximizing their abilities and 'out athleting' the opposing team.

He is tremendous at finding talent, developing it and honing it to give him amazing advantages over the competition.

But, when fails to do that - he is effectively worthless. He is a tremendous motivator, scout, and developer. He is a god-awful CEO.

He was able to do talent arbitrage where he found teams undervalued certain positions (safety and RB as a for instance) and discounted athletes with size/speed #s because they did not meet the measurables. He might not have invented the era of the big corners but he certainly sped the adoption. Before he got here - teams were still shooting for small super fast guys. Big slower guys were almost disregarded.

His ability to build great defenses and develop great defensive players helped here as he built one of the greatest NFL defenses ever, and arguably the best secondary ever (one of 4 opponent drives ending in a turnover on that SB run has to be a record).

We would never have made the SB or won the SB without him.

BUT if we are getting rid of great safeties or DEs because 'what have you done for me lately?' then you have to do the same for the coaches.

Pete is history. He cannot adapt and his advantage in being able to get talent + develop it is gone. The rest of the league looks for the same kind of talent now, guys like Kam or Sherman are no longer disregarded.

His offensive ideas are stale. He is old and his ideas on winning football are old and outdated. And to the question "What have you done for me lately?", the answer for him is nothing. He has done nothing for this team lately save hold it back.

 

[Uncle Si]

Belichek rarely pays his vets and gets free spending with a HoF qb making a pittance.

If he was coaching here Wilson might be the only player left.

Pats fans should know that.

 

[semiahmoo]

5 straight years of getting worse.



Notice a trend yet?

That's above the rim posting right there.

You just decimated the opposition.

Well done.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

\we had a roster that would have made us a dynasty if not for Pete. Let that set in then tell me he should stay.



ukeface: ukeface: ukeface:

I sometimes wonder late at night right before sleep takes me what a coach like Belichick would have done with the almost-dynasty Seahawks.

Would we still be thrashing teams on our way to another almost-certain Super Bowl?

I'm PRETTY sure Seattle and New England have the same record right now.

You really want to compare these two teams' Super Bowl records since "the pass" of 2015?

Hint: one team has a SB record - the other hasn't sniffed a SB since then.

C'mon now, stop being silly.

One was a dynasty while the other could have been.

The real question is if the 2012 Seahawks were in fact more talented than any NE team during the Belichick era and if so, would a coach like Belichik have been far superior in building a longer-term winning franchise than what was accomplished by Pete Carroll?

Belichick (and Tom Brady and co.) has taken NE to the Super Bowl 8 times and won 5 during a remarkable 18-year run.

So, again, I wonder if a Belichick/Seahawks combo would have given similar or even better results given the incredible talent the Seahawks had during their peak years of 2013-2016. Would much of that team still be together and winning or would it have fallen apart regardless?
!

It sounds like you've got a man crush on Belichick, I hear Gronk jerseys are on sale. Keep talking, eventually you'll say something that makes sense.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Pete is a defensive minded coach on a team with average defensive assets.

Worse, Pete is a great strategic coach but near worthless tactically on gameday. His entire success has been built on finding better athletes, empowering them, maximizing their abilities and 'out athleting' the opposing team.

He is tremendous at finding talent, developing it and honing it to give him amazing advantages over the competition.

But, when fails to do that - he is effectively worthless. He is a tremendous motivator, scout, and developer. He is a god-awful CEO.

He was able to do talent arbitrage where he found teams undervalued certain positions (safety and RB as a for instance) and discounted athletes with size/speed #s because they did not meet the measurables. He might not have invented the era of the big corners but he certainly sped the adoption. Before he got here - teams were still shooting for small super fast guys. Big slower guys were almost disregarded.

His ability to build great defenses and develop great defensive players helped here as he built one of the greatest NFL defenses ever, and arguably the best secondary ever (one of 4 opponent drives ending in a turnover on that SB run has to be a record).

We would never have made the SB or won the SB without him.

BUT if we are getting rid of great safeties or DEs because 'what have you done for me lately?' then you have to do the same for the coaches.

Pete is history. He cannot adapt and his advantage in being able to get talent + develop it is gone. The rest of the league looks for the same kind of talent now, guys like Kam or Sherman are no longer disregarded.

His offensive ideas are stale. He is old and his ideas on winning football are old and outdated. And to the question "What have you done for me lately?", the answer for him is nothing. He has done nothing for this team lately save hold it back.

It doesn't matter how many superbowls you won. Eventually, your words become hollow, you overstay your welcome, people want something new and your time runs out.

If every coach that has ever won and a Super Bowl was still coaching and their formula works, they would win superbowls every year.

Carroll for the most part has been figured out and he is not one to change or adjust. He knows only what he knows and his formula no longer works.

 

[pittpnthrs]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

6 years ago we had the talent to do it. Now we don't, but that doesn't deter Pete from sticking with the same old plan although its not working. That's the problem. If something isn't working, you try something else. Pete refuses to do that.

 

[semiahmoo]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

6 years ago we had the talent to do it. Now we don't, but that doesn't deter Pete from sticking with the same old plan although its not working. That's the problem. If something isn't working, you try something else. Pete refuses to do that.

Totally agree. What I don't know is if he chooses not to or he's unable to do it.

At any rate he clearly seems to be on his way out which at this point is for the best.

 

[Uncle Si]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

6 years ago we had the talent to do it. Now we don't, but that doesn't deter Pete from sticking with the same old plan although its not working. That's the problem. If something isn't working, you try something else. Pete refuses to do that.

He brought the talent to the system though.

Fine if you dont think he can do it again. But he didnt inherit the team fans remember so fondly

Most coaches are pretty inflexible. Just depends on patience and trust at this point

 

[semiahmoo]

Pete is a defensive minded coach on a team with average defensive assets.

Worse, Pete is a great strategic coach but near worthless tactically on gameday. His entire success has been built on finding better athletes, empowering them, maximizing their abilities and 'out athleting' the opposing team.

He is tremendous at finding talent, developing it and honing it to give him amazing advantages over the competition.

But, when fails to do that - he is effectively worthless. He is a tremendous motivator, scout, and developer. He is a god-awful CEO.

He was able to do talent arbitrage where he found teams undervalued certain positions (safety and RB as a for instance) and discounted athletes with size/speed #s because they did not meet the measurables. He might not have invented the era of the big corners but he certainly sped the adoption. Before he got here - teams were still shooting for small super fast guys. Big slower guys were almost disregarded.

His ability to build great defenses and develop great defensive players helped here as he built one of the greatest NFL defenses ever, and arguably the best secondary ever (one of 4 opponent drives ending in a turnover on that SB run has to be a record).

We would never have made the SB or won the SB without him.

BUT if we are getting rid of great safeties or DEs because 'what have you done for me lately?' then you have to do the same for the coaches.

Pete is history. He cannot adapt and his advantage in being able to get talent + develop it is gone. The rest of the league looks for the same kind of talent now, guys like Kam or Sherman are no longer disregarded.

His offensive ideas are stale. He is old and his ideas on winning football are old and outdated. And to the question "What have you done for me lately?", the answer for him is nothing. He has done nothing for this team lately save hold it back.

It doesn't matter how many superbowls you won. Eventually, your words become hollow, you overstay your welcome, people want something new and your time runs out.

If every coach that has ever won and a Super Bowl was still coaching and their formula works, they would win superbowls every year.

Carroll for the most part has been figured out and he is not one to change or adjust. He knows only what he knows and his formula no longer works.

Sure miss those few years when being a Seahawk fan meant nobody in the league had it better with the exception of the Patriots which back then we were very worthy rivals for the top dog spot.

Now we're just dogs.

Oh well, there's always hope we'll return after the real-deal reset button is pushed. Will take a few seasons but it could happen.

GO HAWKS!

 

[Uncle Si]

The record skip again?

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

The record skip again?

Some folks have a short train of thought on a split track... it'll come back around and repeat again. hahahah

 

[hawkcrazzed]

The record skip again?

Some folks have a short train of thought on a split track... it'll come back around and repeat again. hahahah

Ok no problem boss we will just shut up and u know let the team go down the crapper and be all like we
won the superbowl 5 years ago like the Niners fans are doing with there dusty 80s championships
and just remember the good old days cause pete is the greatest thing since sliced bread and we have
to just let him have free reign cause superbowl no like we can see the team is turning to crap and he
just spews the same crap day after day cause fun sunshine and rainbows and cottoncandy

 

[bmorepunk]

5 straight years of getting worse.



Notice a trend yet?

What is the x-axis here?

 

[Fade]

What always gets lost in the shuffle when comparing the Seahawks and Patriots is the actual talent of the rosters.

The Seahawks had the #1 DVOA roster an unheard of 4 straight seasons. The Patriots never approached that level of roster dominance. Only the 90's Cowboys are a similar comp. They won 3. All Pete had to do was stay out of his own way, and he wins 2. Coach a little smarter, he wins 3. If he gets really lucky, total fluke he wins 4.

He barely won 1. Keapernick saved Pete's bacon in the NFCCG.

That being said, it's not about the amount of Superbowls the team could've won anymore.

The reason why people want Pete out is the well documented last 5 ( A half-decade) off-seasons of net failure in personnel acquisition, the unwillingness to evolve with the game on offense. Recognize his shortcomings in this area, and hire a brilliant offensive mind to take care of that side of the ball. Thus then letting Pete hyper focus on his defense which would make it even better. The stubborn man would rather go down with the ship, then so be it.

Teams have down periods, it happens, but once you cross the 5 yr mark of getting worse it can no longer be used as an excuse. It is the projection of the franchise. I guess Ruskell should've gotten more time base on this logic, he only had 4 yrs of a downward trend and as the GM for 5 seasons his teams made the playoffs 3 times, including a Superbowl. But as you all know the devil's in the details. Ruskell was terrible. The last 5 yrs Pete has been terrible.

 

[HomerJHawk]

Did Mora sire any boys?






Kidding. Obviously.

 

[adeltaY]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

6 years ago we had the talent to do it. Now we don't, but that doesn't deter Pete from sticking with the same old plan although its not working. That's the problem. If something isn't working, you try something else. Pete refuses to do that.

He brought the talent to the system though.

Fine if you dont think he can do it again. But he didnt inherit the team fans remember so fondly

Most coaches are pretty inflexible. Just depends on patience and trust at this point

Yes, he brought in the talent. Who has he brought in who has been an elite player since the 2012 draft?

1. Frank Clark (elite flashes but inconsistent)
2. BMac (elite so far this year)
3. Coleman (top slot corner)

Who do we have left who is an elite player?

1. Russell Wilson
2. Bobby Wagner
3. KJ Wright (missed a quarter of the season already)
4. Doug Baldwin (also hurt)

Does PCJS track record from 2015 to now inspire confidence? With the four draft picks (1, 3, 4, 5) that we have in 2019? We aren't getting anything for Earl now. So we trade down and maybe get another third. Depends on how high we pick this year, to be honest. But that means we likely miss out on the top tier DL talent at the top of the first.

Talent is going to be hard to find. It's time to evolve the offensive philosophy and the scheme.

 

[chris98251]

6 years ago people were saying pete revolutionized the game by playing defense and running the ball.He invented the compete mantra.Now he sucks because running the ball and playing defense is stupid. He will eventually be forced out just like every other coach who is the new hot ticket. Salary cap and age wrecks all teams and the Rams Vikings Chiefs and
Philly will all fall back to the median and have to rebuild. And the OCs will be the first thrown under the bus because thats how it goes.

6 years ago we had the talent to do it. Now we don't, but that doesn't deter Pete from sticking with the same old plan although its not working. That's the problem. If something isn't working, you try something else. Pete refuses to do that.

He brought the talent to the system though.

Fine if you dont think he can do it again. But he didnt inherit the team fans remember so fondly

Most coaches are pretty inflexible. Just depends on patience and trust at this point

Yes, he brought in the talent. Who has he brought in who has been an elite player since the 2012 draft?

1. Frank Clark (elite flashes but inconsistent)
2. BMac (elite so far this year)
3. Coleman (top slot corner)

Who do we have left who is an elite player?

1. Russell Wilson
2. Bobby Wagner
3. KJ Wright (missed a quarter of the season already)
4. Doug Baldwin (also hurt)

Does PCJS track record from 2015 to now inspire confidence? With the four draft picks (1, 3, 4, 5) that we have in 2019? We aren't getting anything for Earl now. So we trade down and maybe get another third. Depends on how high we pick this year, to be honest. But that means we likely miss out on the top tier DL talent at the top of the first.

Talent is going to be hard to find. It's time to evolve the offensive philosophy and the scheme.

So just as we start being able to run the ball and control the clock, abandon it to a pass happy team that can't pass block with defenders having their ears back and teeing off every snap and expect good results?

Sounds like a winner to me.