Fumble or Incomplete Pass Question

[tdlabrie]

When DangeRuss flipped that little shovel pass to Beast, it got me to thinking... I know sometimes when passes are not caught, it's ruled incomplete. But I also know there are cases where it's ruled a fumble and the ball is live.

Can somebody tell me what the rule is? I think it has something to do with a pass behind the LOS, or maybe a pass behind the quarterback.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Navyhawkfan187]

ball traveled forward past the line of scrimage, therefore it was a forward pass and if dropped would have been incomplete, if the ball had traveled backwards like on a bubble screen and dropped it would be a fumble

 

[Sprfunk]

If it is a backward pass or "lateral" and it is not completed its a fumble. That pass was a forward pass and if Lynch didnt catch it it would be like any other pass.

 

[Oakhawk]

I've been trying to find a shot of this pass--anyone have a link?

Can't get enough of RW in "shortstop" mode!

 

[Sprfunk]

I remember Farve doing that too us too. Forgot what game but it was in the snow, Farve was taking a sack and flipped it out for a TD.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I remember Farve doing that too us too. Forgot what game but it was in the snow, Farve was taking a sack and flipped it out for a TD.

That was the 2007 playoff game where Seattle went up 14-0 early then proceeded to get blown out the building.

I remember it well because I was the only Hawks fans among 14 Packer's fans. I got to cheer for a quarter, then proceeded to drink 4 glasses of bourbon by halftime...

 

[jblaze]

I love RW's presser after the game about this play. He said he went through his 1-4 reads and none were open so he went for Lynch on a flip, double play style! One of my favorite plays of the year so far, just so improvised and clutch! Then Lynch with the finger roll! LOL, three sports in one play.

Gotta love a 2nd year QB who progresses through his reads like that and also has the time (O-line).

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

In order for it to be considered a 'forward pass' it must literally be tossed forward. Anything that travels sideways (i.e. parallel to the LOS) or backwards is considered a backwards pass - or more technically, a lateral - and is thus a live ball....which is to say that if its not caught by the offensive player its just like a fumble and must be recovered. If it travels out of bounds, it's marked dead at the spot that it went out of bounds and is a lost yardage play for the offense (if it went out behind the LOS).

But back to the forward pass - a pass can be tossed forward in any way...overhand, underhand, shovel, option pitched, even the two-handed 'push pass' that you see by the QB out of the shotgun on the Jet Sweep play (mostly at the college level). Regardless of how its tossed, if it's not caught and hits the ground, it's an incomplete pass and the play is dead.

 

[nepahawk]

I love RW's presser after the game about this play. He said he went through his 1-4 reads and none were open so he went for Lynch on a flip, double play style! One of my favorite plays of the year so far, just so improvised and clutch! Then Lynch with the finger roll! LOL, three sports in one play.

Gotta love a 2nd year QB who progresses through his reads like that and also has the time (O-line).

What's amazing is that he had time to go through his progressions!
He has had barely enough time to find his first read this year.
Things are looking up.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

There is also the situation when a ball is knocked out of the quarterback's hand during a pass attempt--if the arm is moving forward, it's an incomplete pass, if not a fumble--this can be a razor's edge distintion.

 

[Blitzfan]

It has nothing to do with the line of scrimmage, but everything to do with the location of the passer. If the pass or toss is dropped and the ball lands behind the passers location when the ball was thrown, it's a fumble.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

It has nothing to do with the line of scrimmage, but everything to do with the location of the passer. If the pass or toss is dropped and the ball lands behind the passers location when the ball was thrown, it's a fumble.

I don't know about that. The rule as I understand it is like 40oz explained.

 

[rjas77]

Elway used to use the shovel pass all the time and many times it was dropped and a huge scramble ensued. They were always ruled incomplete.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

If the rec establishes posession and drops it, it's a fumble on him and has nothing to do with the pass.

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

It has nothing to do with the line of scrimmage, but everything to do with the location of the passer. If the pass or toss is dropped and the ball lands behind the passers location when the ball was thrown, it's a fumble.

Umm, that is absolutely and positively not true. Trust me.

 

[JGreen79]

It has nothing to do with the line of scrimmage, but everything to do with the location of the passer. If the pass or toss is dropped and the ball lands behind the passers location when the ball was thrown, it's a fumble.

Umm, that is absolutely and positively not true. Trust me.

Actually in the way I believe he was thinking it is true. The line of scrimmage has nothing to do with fumble vs incomplete. If the passer(LOS being the 25, from his own 20) throws it to the 21 and it's not caught it's incomplete. Likewise if he throws it to the 19 it's considered a lateral and a fumble if not caught.

The way he worded it though sounds like if he throws it to the 21 and is swatted and lands on the 18 it's a fumble which it is not. It's 100% based on the trajectory from the passer.

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

Ok, but nobody said the ball had to be thrown beyond the LOS. My reference to the LOS in my earlier post was simply in describing a 'sideways' pass....i.e. one in which the ball travels parallel to the LOS from the where it's released by the QB towards the intended receiver. That would be considered a non-forward pass, and thus the ball would be live.

 

[bloodkingg]

Yeah, it's either a forward pass or a lateral. Incomplete laterals are fumbles. If it's in between (i.e. perpendicular to the sideline) then it's a lateral.

Edit: The guy above this post is correct, parallel pass is a lateral.

 

[BullHawk33]

From a video review standpoint as well, all that matters is that the hand is going forward. It doesn't have to be an overhand pass to qualify, so if that pass was tipped and fell to the ground, it would still be an incomplete pass.

 

[sutz]

No such thing as a "lateral." The technically part of the post is incorrect. "Technically" what everyone thinks of as a lateral is a backwards pass.

And yeah, the LoS has nothing to do with it, just the direction the ball travels when it leaves the QB's hand/s. I remember, when I was a kid we used to think he had to throw it overhand on a forward pass and underhand on a 'lateral,' but as was pointed out above, it doesn't matter how he throws it, either.