Hawks should impose a deadline w/ Kam

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I would offer Chancellor and Bennett the same deal. They can essentially buy out thier contracts by returning thier 2016 and 2017 signing bonuses and become free agents after this year.

Either take the gamble for a better contract or report and play on the contract you have.

Bennett would return $4m.
Chancellor would be $2m.

And it would be full savings with no dead cap in 16 and 17. It would free up $13.1m in '16 and $17.625m.

All of sudden you could maybe re-sign Okung, drop his 2015 down by 2-3m giving him a hefty signing bonus. Then ask Graham to convert some of his base salary into future signing bonus. Then you call Evan Mathis up and offer him $5m.

Kam and Bennett also offer you a decent chance for a 3rd round comp if they stay healthy and both put in a great year.

Then you also realistically have the future cap for a Sweezy and Irvin extension. Possibly Mebane as well if they want to go that route.

 

[gowazzu02]

Is there still a magic week number where the player can hold out until then.like week 8 and not lose a year of FA? Cause this thing is ugly.

Kams too prideful to turn back now and Seattle cannot budge. So I dont expect kam to be back before that date.

 

[hawk45]

Like I said, it's not the money to the Hawks, it's not the base, it's not the guaranteed, it's not the bonus...........it's the precedent. Ripping up Kam's deal with three year's left opens up Pandora's Box.

We like 5 year deals, heck, why would any player performing well not pull this after 2 years?

Or just pull it immediately? If we're going to cave to players with 3 years remaining, there essentially is no limit to the amount of caving if the player in question is a core player.

 

[CodeWarrior]

I wonder if this situation opens up the possibility for a new organizational policy: collection of fines is no longer subjective. If any Seahawks player willingly holds out from a mandatory activity, the fine will be collected on the day it is accrued. Or possibly have such language written in to the new CBA as it would remove the "bad guy/bully" image from the organization by relieving them of choice in the matter.

 

[kf3339]

Tell him he shows up by X date or they will collect on the bill. Every once in awhile a public execution is needed.

^ THIS.

It's time some player be held accountable for their actions. I have no problem with a player who is at the end of his contract wanting to hold out to get the best deal. We would probably all do the same thing.

But tell me what professions or industry would accept you making these demands after just "one" year into a contract that would stand for it. The answer is none.

Give him a hard deadline date, and then make all fines and penalties due and payable.

If they don't this will happen even more which will start to hurt the team. NO player is greater than the team.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Tell him he shows up by X date or they will collect on the bill. Every once in awhile a public execution is needed.

Save it for people who don't have as much value to the team in every aspect.

Convenient, but you just can't run an organization with that mindset. As the players like to say, "This is business." Yes, exactly. This is business. You agreed to the terms collectively bargained by YOUR union. If you don't like it, take it up with your union representative, not the team.

 

[kf3339]

I would offer Chancellor and Bennett the same deal. They can essentially buy out thier contracts by returning thier 2016 and 2017 signing bonuses and become free agents after this year.

Either take the gamble for a better contract or report and play on the contract you have.

Bennett would return $4m.
Chancellor would be $2m.

And it would be full savings with no dead cap in 16 and 17. It would free up $13.1m in '16 and $17.625m.

All of sudden you could maybe re-sign Okung, drop his 2015 down by 2-3m giving him a hefty signing bonus. Then ask Graham to convert some of his base salary into future signing bonus. Then you call Evan Mathis up and offer him $5m.

Kam and Bennett also offer you a decent chance for a 3rd round comp if they stay healthy and both put in a great year.

Then you also realistically have the future cap for a Sweezy and Irvin extension. Possibly Mebane as well if they want to go that route.

Seems like a reasonable plan to me.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Is there still a magic week number where the player can hold out until then.like week 8 and not lose a year of FA? Cause this thing is ugly.

Kams too prideful to turn back now and Seattle cannot budge. So I dont expect kam to be back before that date.

There is... but it's not relevant in Kam's case.

To become an UFA, a player needs at least four (4) accrued years, which Kam already has... 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

An accrued season... is basically any year in which a player is on a team's 53-man roster for at least six games... so there's the answer to your question about being back before a certain date. Depending on when the team's bye week is, it would be either back before the week 12 game or the week 11 game.

If Seattle cuts Kam this year, he's entitled to the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $4.45M. Also, the team would take a $5.45M dead money hit but save a paltry $200k in cap room.... so that is not going to happen.

 

[mrt144]

Tell him he shows up by X date or they will collect on the bill. Every once in awhile a public execution is needed.

Save it for people who don't have as much value to the team in every aspect.

Convenient, but you just can't run an organization with that mindset. As the players like to say, "This is business." Yes, exactly. This is business. You agreed to the terms collectively bargained by YOUR union. If you don't like it, take it up with your union representative, not the team.

The benefit of being the front office is you can arbitrarily negotiate with players on a 1 v 1 basis according to their value to the team.

Also, this is exactly the same argument as mortgage default and delinquency - some hardass is going to chime in that "there's a contract and the debtor should just live up to the contract they sign". Except, ya know, default is covered in the contract just as hold outs and the attendant repercussions are in Kam's contract.

I know that I'm the odd man out here in not being mad at Kam but I just don't see the point in a "tough daddy" routine with him specifically because of his on field presence and essential personality in the lockeroom.

I'd like him suited up just as much as anyone else but these fanfic front office schemes you guys are pondering just seem like you're defaulting back to how you treat recalcitrant teenagers and ne'er do wells. Kam is neither, he has bonafide value to the team and he obviously has leverage - no one person could possibly command this kind of hand wringing about his absence and what example needs to be made if they werent worth it.

 

[gowazzu02]

Is there still a magic week number where the player can hold out until then.like week 8 and not lose a year of FA? Cause this thing is ugly.

Kams too prideful to turn back now and Seattle cannot budge. So I dont expect kam to be back before that date.

There is... but it's not relevant in Kam's case.

To become an UFA, a player needs at least four (4) accrued years, which Kam already has... 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

An accrued season... is basically any year in which a player is on a team's 53-man roster for at least six games... so there's the answer to your question about being back before a certain date. Depending on when the team's bye week is, it would be either back before the week 12 game or the week 11 game.

If Seattle cuts Kam this year, he's entitled to the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $4.45M. Also, the team would take a $5.45M dead money hit but save a paltry $200k in cap room.... so that is not going to happen.

So we may not see him before week 12..... I dont see seattle budging, I def dont see Kam budging......So Stupid. Ill use the same rw analogy, how long would it take to recoup the lost wages of sitting out! go back to work kam!

 

[onanygivensunday]

Is there still a magic week number where the player can hold out until then.like week 8 and not lose a year of FA? Cause this thing is ugly.

Kams too prideful to turn back now and Seattle cannot budge. So I dont expect kam to be back before that date.

There is... but it's not relevant in Kam's case.

To become an UFA, a player needs at least four (4) accrued years, which Kam already has... 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

An accrued season... is basically any year in which a player is on a team's 53-man roster for at least six games... so there's the answer to your question about being back before a certain date. Depending on when the team's bye week is, it would be either back before the week 12 game or the week 11 game.

If Seattle cuts Kam this year, he's entitled to the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $4.45M. Also, the team would take a $5.45M dead money hit but save a paltry $200k in cap room.... so that is not going to happen.

So we may not see him before week 12..... I dont see seattle budging, I def dont see Kam budging......So Stupid. Ill use the same rw analogy, how long would it take to recoup the lost wages of sitting out! go back to work kam!

You're missing my main point.

Kam already has enough accrued years to become an UN-restricted FA should Seattle either cut him or he plays out his current contract... meaning Seattle would have no rights to him.

Conversely, if Kam were going into his year four, then it would be important for him to report in time to get six (6) games under his belt... so he could get four (4) accrued years... so he would become an UFA at the end of his (assumed) four year contract with the team... but that doesn't apply to Kam at all.

If a player's contract ends with less that four accred years, he becomes a Restricted FA... meaning the club still owns the rights to him.

 

[Exittium]

I dont think he'll miss any regular season games. Someone blatantly asked him VIA twitter if we'll see him when the season starts and he said yes

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Cgully27/status/632444225968308224[/tweet]

 

[onanygivensunday]

I dont think he'll miss any regular season games. Someone blatantly asked him VIA twitter if we'll see him when the season starts and he said yes

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Cgully27/status/632444225968308224[/tweet]

"Indeed" can be interpreted a couple of different ways.

I wouldn't put too much stock into his one-word answer.

 

[Exittium]

I dont think he'll miss any regular season games. Someone blatantly asked him VIA twitter if we'll see him when the season starts and he said yes

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Cgully27/status/632444225968308224[/tweet]

"Indeed" can be interpreted a couple of different ways.

I wouldn't put too much stock into his one-word answer.

I don't think he'll miss game day checks either. Turst me i am not getting my hopes up. Im no longer a fan of him personally. Used to be but after this stunt no thanks. Being a teammate and competing is more than sitting at home while your buddies work. It's more than calling a few rookies and telling them how stuff should be done. Get off your ass, show the f up, be a man and accept what you did was childish. COMPETE, show the rookies what they could be doing better etc etc. Because at this point he's not being a team player. And at this point I'd be bumping him down in the depth chart to make a point.

 

[scutterhawk]

If you were the Hawks GM, how many regular season games does Kam have to hold out for before you start shopping him around the league? 4 games? Or would you just let him continue to sit out even if he ends up missing the entire season in the hope that he eventually returns and to make a point that your team will stand firm in its contact position.

Unless some team offers a late 1st or early 2nd round pick for Kam, I'd let him continue to hold out without trying to trade him.

Shopping him gives him what he wants. Then it will encourage others to act this same way. Its his career and his money. He is only getting older and costing himself.

On this I agree.
Me personally?, I love the guy, but there has to be a point to which this kind of excessive greed loses it's foothold.
The Seahawks should make it plain to Kam, that you're under contract for three more Years, and we will not trade you, so you'd best stay in shape if you hope to get another chance to catch on with another team when this contract runs out.
Meanwhile, you're getting a taste of what it feels like to be retired.

 

[LymonHawk]

Even if Kam decides to hold out all season, wouldn't the 'Hawks still own his rights?

I don't see that Kam has any choices besides play or retire.

 

[hawknation2015]

Tell him he shows up by X date or they will collect on the bill. Every once in awhile a public execution is needed.

Save it for people who don't have as much value to the team in every aspect.

Convenient, but you just can't run an organization with that mindset. As the players like to say, "This is business." Yes, exactly. This is business. You agreed to the terms collectively bargained by YOUR union. If you don't like it, take it up with your union representative, not the team.

The benefit of being the front office is you can arbitrarily negotiate with players on a 1 v 1 basis according to their value to the team.

Also, this is exactly the same argument as mortgage default and delinquency - some hardass is going to chime in that "there's a contract and the debtor should just live up to the contract they sign". Except, ya know, default is covered in the contract just as hold outs and the attendant repercussions are in Kam's contract.

I know that I'm the odd man out here in not being mad at Kam but I just don't see the point in a "tough daddy" routine with him specifically because of his on field presence and essential personality in the lockeroom.

I'd like him suited up just as much as anyone else but these fanfic front office schemes you guys are pondering just seem like you're defaulting back to how you treat recalcitrant teenagers and ne'er do wells. Kam is neither, he has bonafide value to the team and he obviously has leverage - no one person could possibly command this kind of hand wringing about his absence and what example needs to be made if they werent worth it.

Good post. I don't think actually fining him is a legitimate option on the table, as long as he agrees to return at some point this season. They could probably offer him as many guarantees as Marshawn received last year ($1 million in additional guarantees), but nothing more than that and definitely no new money.

He signed this "#trueblessing," now he has to live with it.

 

[Polaris]

Even if Kam decides to hold out all season, wouldn't the 'Hawks still own his rights?

I don't see that Kam has any choices besides play or retire.

What Kam can do (and it's really his last best play) is to hold out until week 10, and then play the last six games to get an accrued year....and then threaten to do it again. Essentially, "Pay me or lose without me". The problem I have with this, is while I value Kam and think the team is better with Kam, I do NOT think he is absolutely essential or irreplaceable. I think not having him would cost us a couple of games, but that's not a disaster.....and outside of Seattle's system, the harsh reality is that Kam is a tweener...and a tweener coming off an injury at that. He's already making about the best Strong Safety money in the NFL. It's difficult to see how he'd get more elsewhere even if he were able to ask.

 

[byau]

If you were the Hawks GM, how many regular season games does Kam have to hold out for before you start shopping him around the league? 4 games? Or would you just let him continue to sit out even if he ends up missing the entire season in the hope that he eventually returns and to make a point that your team will stand firm in its contact position.

Unless some team offers a late 1st or early 2nd round pick for Kam, I'd let him continue to hold out without trying to trade him.

If I were the Hawks GM, I would do nothing. No trade. No contract restructure. Whatever you do, you are setting a precedent of "dealing with a terrorist" and then the rest of the "terrorists" will come out of the woodwork.

I would tell Kam to keep sitting out, we will do a "next man up". Yes, I know there is no equivalent to Kam, but there is a "next man" and you got to do the best with what you got.

I don't know if I would ultimately collect on the fines, definitely holding back the game checks once the season starts will be plenty.

 

[StoneCold]

If you were the Hawks GM, how many regular season games does Kam have to hold out for before you start shopping him around the league? 4 games? Or would you just let him continue to sit out even if he ends up missing the entire season in the hope that he eventually returns and to make a point that your team will stand firm in its contact position.

Unless some team offers a late 1st or early 2nd round pick for Kam, I'd let him continue to hold out without trying to trade him.

If I were the Hawks GM, I would do nothing. No trade. No contract restructure. Whatever you do, you are setting a precedent of "dealing with a terrorist" and then the rest of the "terrorists" will come out of the woodwork.

I would tell Kam to keep sitting out, we will do a "next man up". Yes, I know there is no equivalent to Kam, but there is a "next man" and you got to do the best with what you got.

I don't know if I would ultimately collect on the fines, definitely holding back the game checks once the season starts will be plenty.

Terrorist? Really? Byau, you are usually more level headed. I would tell Kam I love him, but I can't restructure. I hope you come back and play. No hard feelings. Hugs all around.