Jalen Ramsey a Ram....

[Chapow]

Name me another top 1 or 2 CB in the past 20 years that has not been a diva.

That's actually pretty easy.

Nnamdi Asomugha.

In fairness, I can't think of another one right off the top of my head.

 

[Fade]

I feel if this was a trade the Hawks has done most would applaud it. The price was certainly steep. But we don’t even know the cost yet. What if it’s too late 1st round picks? He was certainly worth a 1st.

Jalen

1st round pick = unknown unlikely to be as a talented
2nd 1st round pick = unknown

The real cost is the picks + money certainly. It wasn’t a terrible trade but not great. He’s likely to perform well for years to come.

The Seahawks were in much better position to pull off the trade with $70M in space and a ton of picks at their disposal, but that is too steep of a price to pay for a corner. Ramsey holds all the leverage now. He can demand $20M apy. Or He'll walk. The Rams are screwed.

It's now a 2 team division. When the Cards get a D they can join the conversation.

 

[2_0_6]

Name me another top 1 or 2 CB in the past 20 years that has not been a diva.

That's actually pretty easy.

Nnamdi Asomugha.

In fairness, I can't think of another one right off the top of my head.

I wouldn't lump him in the top 2 CB's at any point of his career. Top 5, you bet but top 2 is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Darrelle Revis and Champ Bailey occupied those spots for most of his tenure.

 

[GeekHawk]

Bottom line is that the lambs really screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[Marvin49]

Just my opinion, but I think it very rarely works out for the team giving up the picks when they make this kind of monster trade.

1) The player is available for a reason

2) You simply do not know what those picks would have been. Now some call that the known vs the unknown and surmise the logical choice is to choose the known. I disagree. Its not because those picks are unknown. Its because I don't think the "known" is really known.

Nobody knows what will happen with Ramsey once he steps on the field as a Ram. Its just as big a gamble. You've just ramped up the stakes by giving up so much.

How many guys have been traded for huge sums and have worked out? Herschel? OJ Simpson? Are you guys happy with the Harvin and Graham trades? Was OBJ worth it for Cleveland?

Maybe in the draft? RGIII? Ricky Williams? Mike Vick? (Vick was good, but Chargers moved down and got LaDainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees).

As for the picks in return? Yeah, they could end up sucking too. That why I look at it as a value proposition.

Maybe I'm just gunshy, I dunno. In 1995 the 49ers were coming off a Super Bowl and moved way up in the draft to take JJ Stokes. They made the trade with the Ravens (tho I think they were the Browns on the day of the trade...not sure) and gave up their 1st the following year to make the move. I loved it. JJ Stokes!!

ugg.

Who did the Ravens take with the 49ers 1st the following year?

Ray Lewis.

Ouch.

 

[Chapow]

Name me another top 1 or 2 CB in the past 20 years that has not been a diva.

That's actually pretty easy.

Nnamdi Asomugha.

In fairness, I can't think of another one right off the top of my head.

I wouldn't lump him in the top 2 CB's at any point of his career. Top 5, you bet but top 2 is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Darrelle Revis and Champ Bailey occupied those spots for most of his tenure.

2 time first team all pro, 2 time 2nd team all pro.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but I think most would disagree with you. He was absolutely considered a top 2 CB in the league for several years.

 

[2_0_6]

Good god, you're splitting hairs here. I never said he was terrible, all I said is that Revis and Bailey IMO were #1 and #2.

It is crazy how he was an absolute shell of himself once he went to Philly. Everyone and their momma thought that was a super team

 

[Chapow]

Good god, you're splitting hairs here. I never said he was terrible, all I said is that Revis and Bailey IMO were #1 and #2.

It is crazy how he was an absolute shell of himself once he went to Philly. Everyone and their momma thought that was a super team

Wait a sec. You asked a question, I gave you a pretty obvious answer. You're the one saying that a guy that was a 2x first team all pro and 2x second team all pro wasn't a top 2 CB, but somehow I'm the one splitting hairs?

:roll:

 

[Elemas]

It's hard to predict how picks are going to pan out (no sh*t Sherlock). There have been plenty of busts....plenty of studs that weren't even drafted and have had incredible careers.

Objectively, it's a bad argument.

In my opinion, Ramsey is the top corner in the game right now. Subjective, but...if he's not in your top 3, you may have some type of impairment.

But....his off-the-field antics are ridiculous and he's not going to sign for anything less than $17M+...

Rams trading picks aside, talent aside, antics aside, I don't see how it makes sense considering how much they've already invested in a few players.

Next two years or bust?

 

[knownone]

This trade actually makes sense for the Rams.

Disagree. If they were going to blow two first-round picks, it should have been to get a new QB. That's the biggest hole their team has. Peters is a good corner. Trading that kind of draft capital to replace a good (not great) corner with an elite one is stupidity, for the Rams and the scenario they are in as a team, talent-wise...

Here's the thing, the Ram's structured their cap and roster to win now, and they are 3-3. There is nothing they can do about Goff and Gurley's contracts. They can't rebuild on the fly because no one is going to take Goff or Gurley off their hands. On top of that, which QB is available that you'd trade for? Do you want Marcus Mariota? Maybe Andy Dalton? I just don't see a move that is a significant upgrade for the Rams that is remotely feasible with out completely selling the future to offload Goff's contract for a guy who may not be better than Goff.

So, pretend your Les Snead. You've had 2 winning seasons in 7 years. You've arguably signed two of the worst contracts in the NFL in Goff + Gurley. You choose to make win now moves on defense in the off-season instead of maintaining the continuity of your offensive line. Now, 6 weeks into the season, your pass defense is terrible, your offensive line went from top 5 in 2018 to bottom 20 in 2019, and defense's may have figured out the young QB you just resigned to a mega deal that no one will take off your hands.

What do you do? IMO, the only option they have is to identify the weaknesses of their defense, or try to find fix the offensive line with the hope that will fix Goff (risky). Peters is a good corner, but he's ranked 90th in receptions against, and he's not a great culture fit in the locker room. Snead is banking on Ramsey being able to fix their pass defense while gambling that Mcvay will be able to fix the offense. This makes sense for them under these circumstances. They are 2 games out of the division, and, on paper, this makes the Rams a better team. This is definitely a panic button move, but it's the only move Snead has.

That's the thing I think people are missing. I'm not saying this move makes the Rams better than Seattle or the 49ers. I'm saying this move makes sense for the Rams because they really don't have any other options. If they don't turn it around; Les Snead is out of job. That's why trading two years of draft capital doesn't matter. If they are not a playoffs team this year or next, they'd be better off firing Snead, blowing up the roster, and recouping much of what they lost in the Ramsey trade.

 

[2_0_6]

Good god, you're splitting hairs here. I never said he was terrible, all I said is that Revis and Bailey IMO were #1 and #2.

It is crazy how he was an absolute shell of himself once he went to Philly. Everyone and their momma thought that was a super team

Wait a sec. You asked a question, I gave you a pretty obvious answer. You're the one saying that a guy that was a 2x first team all pro and 2x second team all pro wasn't a top 2 CB, but somehow I'm the one splitting hairs?

:roll:

I know what I asked, TOP 2 CB. Not top 3 LOL

 

[Marvin49]

This trade actually makes sense for the Rams.

Disagree. If they were going to blow two first-round picks, it should have been to get a new QB. That's the biggest hole their team has. Peters is a good corner. Trading that kind of draft capital to replace a good (not great) corner with an elite one is stupidity, for the Rams and the scenario they are in as a team, talent-wise...

Here's the thing, the Ram's structured their cap and roster to win now, and they are 3-3. There is nothing they can do about Goff and Gurley's contracts. They can't rebuild on the fly because no one is going to take Goff or Gurley off their hands. On top of that, which QB is available that you'd trade for? Do you want Marcus Mariota? Maybe Andy Dalton? I just don't see a move that is a significant upgrade for the Rams that is remotely feasible with out completely selling the future to offload Goff's contract for a guy who may not be better than Goff.

So, pretend your Les Snead. You've had 2 winning seasons in 7 years. You've arguably signed two of the worst contracts in the NFL in Goff + Gurley. You choose to make win now moves on defense in the off-season instead of maintaining the continuity of your offensive line. Now, 6 weeks into the season, your pass defense is terrible, your offensive line went from top 5 in 2018 to bottom 20 in 2019, and defense's may have figured out the young QB you just resigned to a mega deal that no one will take off your hands.

What do you do? IMO, the only option they have is to identify the weaknesses of their defense, or try to find fix the offensive line with the hope that will fix Goff (risky). Peters is a good corner, but he's ranked 90th in receptions against, and he's not a great culture fit in the locker room. Snead is banking on Ramsey being able to fix their pass defense while gambling that Mcvay will be able to fix the offense. This makes sense for them under these circumstances. They are 2 games out of the division, and, on paper, this makes the Rams a better team. This is definitely a panic button move, but it's the only move Snead has.

That's the thing I think people are missing. I'm not saying this move makes the Rams better than Seattle or the 49ers. I'm saying this move makes sense for the Rams because they really don't have any other options. If they don't turn it around; Les Snead is out of job. That's why trading two years of draft capital doesn't matter. If they are not a playoffs team this year or next, they'd be better off firing Snead, blowing up the roster, and recouping much of what they lost in the Ramsey trade.

...and the bolded right there is what makes this a move of desperation and the wrong move for the team.

That is the wrong reason to make a trade. You don't make a big move to sacrifice the future to hope to save your job. You do what is in the best interest of the organization.

When you make moves out of desperation, you are just pushing yourself out the door faster. Its foolish.

 

[Chapow]

Good god, you're splitting hairs here. I never said he was terrible, all I said is that Revis and Bailey IMO were #1 and #2.

It is crazy how he was an absolute shell of himself once he went to Philly. Everyone and their momma thought that was a super team

Wait a sec. You asked a question, I gave you a pretty obvious answer. You're the one saying that a guy that was a 2x first team all pro and 2x second team all pro wasn't a top 2 CB, but somehow I'm the one splitting hairs?

:roll:

I know what I asked, TOP 2 CB. Not top 3 LOL

Fair enough. Like I already said, obviously you're entitled to your opinion.

Buuuuuuttt... knowing that he was a 2x first team all pro and 2x time second team all pro, do you think you're going to find many people that agree with you that at no time was Asomugha a top 2 CB in the league?

 

[knownone]

This trade actually makes sense for the Rams.

Disagree. If they were going to blow two first-round picks, it should have been to get a new QB. That's the biggest hole their team has. Peters is a good corner. Trading that kind of draft capital to replace a good (not great) corner with an elite one is stupidity, for the Rams and the scenario they are in as a team, talent-wise...

Here's the thing, the Ram's structured their cap and roster to win now, and they are 3-3. There is nothing they can do about Goff and Gurley's contracts. They can't rebuild on the fly because no one is going to take Goff or Gurley off their hands. On top of that, which QB is available that you'd trade for? Do you want Marcus Mariota? Maybe Andy Dalton? I just don't see a move that is a significant upgrade for the Rams that is remotely feasible with out completely selling the future to offload Goff's contract for a guy who may not be better than Goff.

So, pretend your Les Snead. You've had 2 winning seasons in 7 years. You've arguably signed two of the worst contracts in the NFL in Goff + Gurley. You choose to make win now moves on defense in the off-season instead of maintaining the continuity of your offensive line. Now, 6 weeks into the season, your pass defense is terrible, your offensive line went from top 5 in 2018 to bottom 20 in 2019, and defense's may have figured out the young QB you just resigned to a mega deal that no one will take off your hands.

What do you do? IMO, the only option they have is to identify the weaknesses of their defense, or try to find fix the offensive line with the hope that will fix Goff (risky). Peters is a good corner, but he's ranked 90th in receptions against, and he's not a great culture fit in the locker room. Snead is banking on Ramsey being able to fix their pass defense while gambling that Mcvay will be able to fix the offense. This makes sense for them under these circumstances. They are 2 games out of the division, and, on paper, this makes the Rams a better team. This is definitely a panic button move, but it's the only move Snead has.

That's the thing I think people are missing. I'm not saying this move makes the Rams better than Seattle or the 49ers. I'm saying this move makes sense for the Rams because they really don't have any other options. If they don't turn it around; Les Snead is out of job. That's why trading two years of draft capital doesn't matter. If they are not a playoffs team this year or next, they'd be better off firing Snead, blowing up the roster, and recouping much of what they lost in the Ramsey trade.

...and the bolded right there is what makes this a move of desperation and the wrong move for the team.

That is the wrong reason to make a trade. You don't make a big move to sacrifice the future to hope to save your job. You do what is in the best interest of the organization.

When you make moves out of desperation, you are just pushing yourself out the door faster. Its foolish.

You left out the justification though. If this move doesn't make them a contender, they'll have to blow up the team anyway because they can't win with Goff and Gurley's contracts. That means potentially trading Donald, Brockers, Cooks, or even Ramsey in a year or two because they no longer fit your window.

 

[2_0_6]

Good god, you're splitting hairs here. I never said he was terrible, all I said is that Revis and Bailey IMO were #1 and #2.

It is crazy how he was an absolute shell of himself once he went to Philly. Everyone and their momma thought that was a super team

Wait a sec. You asked a question, I gave you a pretty obvious answer. You're the one saying that a guy that was a 2x first team all pro and 2x second team all pro wasn't a top 2 CB, but somehow I'm the one splitting hairs?

:roll:

I know what I asked, TOP 2 CB. Not top 3 LOL

Fair enough. Like I already said, obviously you're entitled to your opinion.

Buuuuuuttt... knowing that he was a 2x first team all pro and 2x time second team all pro, do you think you're going to find many people that agree with you that at no time was Asomugha a top 2 CB in the league?

I would be willing to be if a poll was given asking to rate the top 10 CB's of all time, both Revis and Bailey would be on there in likely the top five while Nnamdi would not sniff the top 10.

Again just my .02.

BTW this trade still sucks! :irishdrinkers:

 

[Marvin49]

Disagree. If they were going to blow two first-round picks, it should have been to get a new QB. That's the biggest hole their team has. Peters is a good corner. Trading that kind of draft capital to replace a good (not great) corner with an elite one is stupidity, for the Rams and the scenario they are in as a team, talent-wise...

Here's the thing, the Ram's structured their cap and roster to win now, and they are 3-3. There is nothing they can do about Goff and Gurley's contracts. They can't rebuild on the fly because no one is going to take Goff or Gurley off their hands. On top of that, which QB is available that you'd trade for? Do you want Marcus Mariota? Maybe Andy Dalton? I just don't see a move that is a significant upgrade for the Rams that is remotely feasible with out completely selling the future to offload Goff's contract for a guy who may not be better than Goff.

So, pretend your Les Snead. You've had 2 winning seasons in 7 years. You've arguably signed two of the worst contracts in the NFL in Goff + Gurley. You choose to make win now moves on defense in the off-season instead of maintaining the continuity of your offensive line. Now, 6 weeks into the season, your pass defense is terrible, your offensive line went from top 5 in 2018 to bottom 20 in 2019, and defense's may have figured out the young QB you just resigned to a mega deal that no one will take off your hands.

What do you do? IMO, the only option they have is to identify the weaknesses of their defense, or try to find fix the offensive line with the hope that will fix Goff (risky). Peters is a good corner, but he's ranked 90th in receptions against, and he's not a great culture fit in the locker room. Snead is banking on Ramsey being able to fix their pass defense while gambling that Mcvay will be able to fix the offense. This makes sense for them under these circumstances. They are 2 games out of the division, and, on paper, this makes the Rams a better team. This is definitely a panic button move, but it's the only move Snead has.

That's the thing I think people are missing. I'm not saying this move makes the Rams better than Seattle or the 49ers. I'm saying this move makes sense for the Rams because they really don't have any other options. If they don't turn it around; Les Snead is out of job. That's why trading two years of draft capital doesn't matter. If they are not a playoffs team this year or next, they'd be better off firing Snead, blowing up the roster, and recouping much of what they lost in the Ramsey trade.

...and the bolded right there is what makes this a move of desperation and the wrong move for the team.

That is the wrong reason to make a trade. You don't make a big move to sacrifice the future to hope to save your job. You do what is in the best interest of the organization.

When you make moves out of desperation, you are just pushing yourself out the door faster. Its foolish.

You left out the justification though. If this move doesn't make them a contender, they'll have to blow up the team anyway because they can't win with Goff and Gurley's contracts. That means potentially trading Donald, Brockers, Cooks, or even Ramsey in a year or two because they no longer fit your window.

?

So then the assumption is you aren't really giving up the future because you can trade/dump all those other contracts?

That seems convoluted to me. The strategy is if getting Ramsey doesn't fix everything when the problem clearly wasn't CB then you will blow up everything anyway?

That makes no sense to me.

Take your lumps this year, draft/sign 3-4 O-Linemen in the offseason, make another run. Goff isn't perfect, but he can be the puppet in McVays Puppet show if you protect him.

They are a missed field goal away from being 4-2. The 49ers crushed their offense, but NEWSFLASH: they've done that to everyone this year. They were good for three weeks, then they got Jimmie Ward back at FS and for two weeks they've been ludicrous. They've allowed a net 126 yards passing (pass yards minus sack yardage) in the last two weeks. That's not an average. That's TOTAL. 15 of those yards were a pass from Odell Beckham. Vs the Steelers, Rudolph had 160 yards, but 81 of them were on a single play where the other FS (Tarvarious Moore) took a bad angle, which he has been prone to do.

In the offseaon, so much was made of Jimmy G sucking in practice and once throwing 5 INTs. THIS IS THE D HE WAS PLAYING AGAINST.

I';m not saying all this to brag about my Niners (well at least, not 100% about that). What I'm saying is that the move is total desperation because they won't play SF every week and the trade didn't address the real problem.

If I'm the Rams, I suck it up for a week and reset.

This move is desperation and IMO made for a number of Non-Football reasons and that is how you end up a bad team.

 

[Rat]

?

So then the assumption is you aren't really giving up the future because you can trade/dump all those other contracts?

That seems convoluted to me. The strategy is if getting Ramsey doesn't fix everything when the problem clearly wasn't CB then you will blow up everything anyway?

That makes no sense to me.

Take your lumps this year, draft/sign 3-4 O-Linemen in the offseason, make another run. Goff isn't perfect, but he can be the puppet in McVays Puppet show if you protect him.

They are a missed field goal away from being 4-2. The 49ers crushed their offense, but NEWSFLASH: they've done that to everyone this year. They were good for three weeks, then they got Jimmie Ward back at FS and for two weeks they've been ludicrous.

If I'm the Rams, I suck it up for a week and reset.

This move is desperation and IMO made for a number of Non-Football reasons and that is how you end up a bad team.

Not to mention, the Rams get the Falcons, Steelers, and Bengals the next three weeks, so there's a good chance they'd be sitting at 6-3 in a month without Ramsey, and if their normally very reliable kicker doesn't uncharacteristically push a 44-yarder against the Seahawks, they're 7-2 with the tiebreaker on Seattle and sitting pretty for at least a wild card spot. They have some trouble spots, but they're not complete trash either.

 

[Marvin49]

?

So then the assumption is you aren't really giving up the future because you can trade/dump all those other contracts?

That seems convoluted to me. The strategy is if getting Ramsey doesn't fix everything when the problem clearly wasn't CB then you will blow up everything anyway?

That makes no sense to me.

Take your lumps this year, draft/sign 3-4 O-Linemen in the offseason, make another run. Goff isn't perfect, but he can be the puppet in McVays Puppet show if you protect him.

They are a missed field goal away from being 4-2. The 49ers crushed their offense, but NEWSFLASH: they've done that to everyone this year. They were good for three weeks, then they got Jimmie Ward back at FS and for two weeks they've been ludicrous.

If I'm the Rams, I suck it up for a week and reset.

This move is desperation and IMO made for a number of Non-Football reasons and that is how you end up a bad team.

Not to mention, the Rams get the Falcons, Steelers, and Bengals the next three weeks, so there's a good chance they'd be sitting at 6-3 in a month without Ramsey, and if their normally very reliable kicker doesn't uncharacteristically push a 44-yarder against the Seahawks, they're 7-2 with the tiebreaker on Seattle and sitting pretty for at least a wild card spot. They have some trouble spots, but they're not complete trash either.

This.

 

[2_0_6]

They have some VERY EXPENSIVE trouble spots named Gurley and Goff.

 

[Chapow]

Wait a sec. You asked a question, I gave you a pretty obvious answer. You're the one saying that a guy that was a 2x first team all pro and 2x second team all pro wasn't a top 2 CB, but somehow I'm the one splitting hairs?

:roll:

I know what I asked, TOP 2 CB. Not top 3 LOL

Fair enough. Like I already said, obviously you're entitled to your opinion.

Buuuuuuttt... knowing that he was a 2x first team all pro and 2x time second team all pro, do you think you're going to find many people that agree with you that at no time was Asomugha a top 2 CB in the league?

I would be willing to be if a poll was given asking to rate the top 10 CB's of all time, both Revis and Bailey would be on there in likely the top five while Nnamdi would not sniff the top 10.

Again just my .02.

BTW this trade still sucks! :irishdrinkers:

What?

How did "knowing that he was a 2x first team all pro and 2x time second team all pro, do you think you're going to find many people that agree with you that at no time was Asomugha a top 2 CB in the league?" turn into a poll rating the top 10 CB's of all time? I never said Asomugha was a top ten all time CB.

You didn't just move the goal posts, you moved the goal posts to a whole different stadium.

Nice work skirting around the question instead of just answering it, but we both know the answer anyway.

Meh, whatever. I think a guy that was a 4x all pro was at one point one of the top 2 CB's in the league, apparently you don't. Moving on...