Jermaine Kearse won't give hometown discount to Seahawks

[TeamoftheCentury]

Good on him for answering (what IMO is an obnoxious question) honestly.

If you value your employer more than your employer values you then you either don't have a lot of options or are a sucker, IMO.

Actually, that should be a fairly equal two-way street. Those who value their employer tend to BE valued BY their employer. Too, there's more than just ONE sense of what constitutes value. He's a valued member of this team. But, his compensatory value is what it is. Free Agency may offer a dose of reality there. Would love to have him back, at the right and fair price. But, ultimately... that has to work best for the team plans moving forward.

I'm sure Kearse is certainly welcome and wanted back. But, because of the competition and talent at the position, he's probably going to be allowed to test the market and come back to the Hawks with his "true" compensation value.

 

[Mad Dog]

It bugs me when people ask these questions. Why should anyone give their team a hometown discount? Football is dfferent than other sports. Players should go for the money.

Because workplace satisfaction counts too. I could go work in the boonies for much more money but I prefer to work in a great city with great recreational options where my family is happy.

If money is close, I'd always go for the better workplace environment. Playing for a coach like Pete, an owner like Paul and a QB like Russell would be strong enticement to stay for a little less.

It seems somewhere along the way the world has forgotten a very sage adage: money doesn't buy happiness.

 

[Ad Hawk]

And if you care about winning, there may not be winning teams (or those that have a realistic chance of doing so soon) making you offers. The Hawks win a lot of games--have a chance to go into February regularly now--and that's worth something that maybe the bottom line can't make up for.

That's not being stupid; it's just having different values than others might.

 

[AROS]

Kearse is a decent player and has made some big plays for us of course but he's not a player I will lose sleep over if he moves on. Baldwin? Yeah I would lose sleep if he moved on.

 

[kearly]

James Jones signed for 3 years, $10 million with Oakland a couple years ago. They are very similar players with similar production. Jones was slightly more valued as a commodity, but NFL inflation the past two years would probably even out the difference. Then again, Jones was signed by a Raiders team that was desperate to spend cash and was struggling to find takers, and had a GM who was in the room when Green Bay drafted Jones.

So if anything, I see 3/10 as probably being Kearse's ceiling in the open market. And at least for me, that kind of money is within what I think Seattle will pay. Kearse wasn't as good a year ago as he is today, and a year ago the team felt he was worth a $2.36 million 2nd round RFA tag.

I think he'll get priced out around $4m or $5m APY. But I don't think he'll get that much money.

 

[RichNhansom]

I'm curious to see how he would do in a different system. I like how he has built chemistry with Wilson but it's not like he has Tates natural born talent.

I suspect he will struggle in most systems at least for a while and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he struggled to get playing time.

His biggest strength is high pointing the ball down field and down field blocking. Route running and speed are very suspect and his hands are not elite.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him leave only to end up back with us down the road.

All that being said I think he is valuable in Seattle and I hope we find a way to keep him.

 

[45Hawker]

It might be a risky assessment, but I don't think there's a huge delta in talent between Kearse and Kevin Smith and Kasen Williams. The latter two guys are under contract in 2016 for $525k and $450k respectively.

IMO, Kearse isn't worth potentially $3-4m more than those WR's, and we should take a chance on one of those young guys being the 3rd WR. That "savings" could be used elsewhere.

I think Kearse is similar to to Lance Moore, who's biggest contract was $2.6m.

 

[Popeyejones]

Good on him for answering (what IMO is an obnoxious question) honestly.

If you value your employer more than your employer values you then you either don't have a lot of options or are a sucker, IMO.

For example, Joe Staley left probably $20 million on the table (6 yr(s) / $44.6 million vs. the 6 yr(s) / $65 million he was worth) -- which would make him one of the biggest suckers around, per your definition.

That's another thing you can think Harbaugh for, since I doubt Staley would have accepted such a 'stingy' extension had the 49ers not been coming off three-consecutive seasons of Super Bowl contention.

Happiness is sometimes more important than money. Too bad things can change fast in the NFL.

I think you're mixing some stuff up.

FIRST EXTENSION:

Staley signed a six year extension when Mike Singletary was the head coach.

He had been in the league for two years at that point (this was before the new CBA when you could still sign an extension that early).

His extension was for less than he ended up being worth for two reasons:

1) He still had three years left on his rookie deal when he signed it.
2) Joe Staley was at that point, still a guy with a lot of promise rather than the Joe Staley we know today. When he signed that extension he was still undersized and pretty inconsistent (gave up 8 sacks as a RT his rookie year, and another 8 sacks as an LT in his second year right before he signed the extension.

SECOND EXTENSION:

In 2014, when Harbaugh was the coach, he again signed another two year exension when he still had three years left on his deal. This was basically an acknowledgement that he had totally outplayed his 2009 extension, and for the three years he was still under contract it around doubled his salary for each of the first two years and tripled it for the last year he was still under contract, in exchange for just under doubling it for an additional two years (his age 34 and 35 seasons) added to the deal.



OVERALL:

I guess someone could argue that Staley undervalued himself when he signed his 2009 extension, but I think it takes a hefty dose of hindsight to make that argument. Staley, twice now, has basically gotten both MUCH MORE immediate money and guaranteed immediate money than if he had waited for his deals to play out.

With Staley I don't see a guy giving hometown discounts, I see a guy whose taking an IMO pretty smart and conservative strategy in getting the most guaranteed money he can as quickly as he can.

 

[Popeyejones]

Good on him for answering (what IMO is an obnoxious question) honestly.

If you value your employer more than your employer values you then you either don't have a lot of options or are a sucker, IMO.

Actually, that should be a fairly equal two-way street. Those who value their employer tend to BE valued BY their employer. Too, there's more than just ONE sense of what constitutes value. He's a valued member of this team. But, his compensatory value is what it is. Free Agency may offer a dose of reality there. Would love to have him back, at the right and fair price. But, ultimately... that has to work best for the team plans moving forward.

I'm sure Kearse is certainly welcome and wanted back. But, because of the competition and talent at the position, he's probably going to be allowed to test the market and come back to the Hawks with his "true" compensation value.

Oh, yeah, agreed that particularly in a professional sports league with a salary cap ALL THE TIME there are guys who a team would keep if they could, but they just can't make it work from a cap perspective.

Just because (hypothetically) the Seahawks have already made too many other commitments to keep Kearse or (again hypothetically) value other people they want to bring back more than Kearse doesn't mean that they dislike him or anything.

As for there being more than just one sense of what constitutes value, of course, and if someone wants to take below their market rate from their employer based on that logic, well heck, more power to 'em, but I also wouldn't fault somebody for not doing that.

That said, if it's the employer who's using this argument to try to tell their employee that they should take a below market rate (i.e. we value you in a lot of ways beyond just your financial compensation), I think employees have a right to be pretty suspicious of those claims (e.g. employee of the month awards don't pay bills). Not saying the Seahawks ever have or would do this, but I'm much more accepting about it when it's the people who are taking the below market rate who cite this reason rather than the people who are trying to pay the below market rate by citing it.

 

[Popeyejones]

James Jones signed for 3 years, $10 million with Oakland a couple years ago. They are very similar players with similar production. Jones was slightly more valued as a commodity, but NFL inflation the past two years would probably even out the difference. Then again, Jones was signed by a Raiders team that was desperate to spend cash and was struggling to find takers, and had a GM who was in the room when Green Bay drafted Jones.

So if anything, I see 3/10 as probably being Kearse's ceiling in the open market. And at least for me, that kind of money is within what I think Seattle will pay. Kearse wasn't as good a year ago as he is today, and a year ago the team felt he was worth a $2.36 million 2nd round RFA tag.

I think he'll get priced out around $4m or $5m APY. But I don't think he'll get that much money.

Great comparison.

The only difference IMO is Jones was 29 when he did that and was also coming out of a really pass heavy offense, so it was really hard for the Raiders (or any team) to convince themselves that they could get more out of Jones than he'd already shown.

For Kearse, he's 25 and coming out of (what until the last month or two is) a really run heavy offense, so his value is probably a bit higher as teams can tell themselves a Golden Tate story about him.

I think 3/10 would be great from the Hawks side and they'd be wise to jump all over that. I think 4/16 is probably more in his ballpark though, and it wouldn't totally shock me if someone ended up throwing him 4/20 given those two factors and that the cap has jumped the past two years and will supposedly keep on jumping.

If teams think he can be a #2 w/ the cap at 153 next year and still rising I don't think 5APY is that crazy at all. (my only hesitation is I like him much more as a #3 than #2).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't think he'll have a choice.

Like Doug before him, Kearse's value is much higher within our system and team. It took him what 2-3 full seasons to be the kind of WR he is now learning what Russell needed him to do?

I highly doubt another team is going to give him a big contract offer, as Kearse is the textbook definition of a "system player." Not tall, not fast, not particularly long or quick.............but smart and savvy within our system.

 

[Popeyejones]

I don't think he'll have a choice.

Like Doug before him, Kearse's value is much higher within our system and team. It took him what 2-3 full seasons to be the kind of WR he is now learning what Russell needed him to do?

I highly doubt another team is going to give him a big contract offer, as Kearse is the textbook definition of a "system player." Not tall, not fast, not particularly long or quick.............but smart and savvy within our system.

Does that to you introduce the question of if he's even that valuable to the Seahawks, then?

As far as fitting well within the system goes the Seahawks seem to really have knack for cobbling together guys who are "right" (e.g. Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, Lockett) which in a weird way makes them kind of expendable too.

As the cap gets tighter for the Hawks this year and next year, maybe 3.75 of that 4.5 for Kearse might actually be more useful at another position.

Not saying that's true or anything, but just rolling around the idea.

IIRC wasn't there a receiver whose name I don't remember who the Hawks were pretty high on during pre-season?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't think he'll have a choice.

Like Doug before him, Kearse's value is much higher within our system and team. It took him what 2-3 full seasons to be the kind of WR he is now learning what Russell needed him to do?

I highly doubt another team is going to give him a big contract offer, as Kearse is the textbook definition of a "system player." Not tall, not fast, not particularly long or quick.............but smart and savvy within our system.

Does that to you introduce the question of if he's even that valuable to the Seahawks, then?

As far as fitting well within the system goes the Seahawks seem to really have knack for cobbling together guys who are "right" (e.g. Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, Lockett) which in a weird way makes them kind of expendable too.

Kearse is a poor man's Baldwin, so yeah he's still worth keeping, but not at free agent prices.

So we'll do the same thing we did with Doug, let him put out the feelers, find out there's not much interest, then he'll be more open to our lowball offer.

I'd resign Kearse for around 2M a year, that's about right. But if someone gives him more? No thanks, I think there's 30 Kearse's in the league we could bring in that'd be fine in our system.

 

[HawkGA]

If I were a player of any worth, I would include a lot of things other than just money in my final evaluation. Somebody mentioned no income tax. That's a big deal and would mean some states would need to pay in the neighborhood of 10% for my services (income tax plus the fact that you get taxed on the extra you earn so you have to earn even more to cover the higher taxes). I would also consider whether the team was a winner or not. This wouldn't necessarily be a huge consideration but it would cross some teams off the list. For example, I wouldn't play for Cleveland, not matter how much money they threw at me (unless of course they were the only one throwing money at me).

So whereas I don't think Kearse should give a hometown discount, I think there are a lot of factors that work in favor of choosing Seattle over other locations.

 

[bjornanderson21]

The Hawks have to be moving on from guys not on rookie deals.

Our overall depth as a team has taken a hit because we haven't drafted many replacements and our starters have gotten a lot more expensive so we can't afford high quality depth.

Draft another WR, sign another UDFA WR (we've actually had more luck with them than drafted WRs) give a little more attention to the fringe WRs in developing them, and hope that Richardson stays healthy until Graham gets back.

The Hawks will need to pick up another TE receiving option better than Helfet and Coffman anyway, so that's a little extra receiving help that we didn't have after Graham went down.

The Hawks probably won't replace Kearse with someone who makes as many memorable catches, but up until this season Kearse was very spotty. Besides, if the Hawks improve their poor 1st half offense we won't need many awesome catches in the 4th quarter.

 

[bjornanderson21]

If I were a player of any worth, I would include a lot of things other than just money in my final evaluation. Somebody mentioned no income tax. That's a big deal and would mean some states would need to pay in the neighborhood of 10% for my services (income tax plus the fact that you get taxed on the extra you earn so you have to earn even more to cover the higher taxes). I would also consider whether the team was a winner or not. This wouldn't necessarily be a huge consideration but it would cross some teams off the list. For example, I wouldn't play for Cleveland, not matter how much money they threw at me (unless of course they were the only one throwing money at me).

So whereas I don't think Kearse should give a hometown discount, I think there are a lot of factors that work in favor of choosing Seattle over other locations.

Tax is a factor, but players are taxed on their game check in the state the game was played. So even the Hawks end up paying state taxes because they play games in states with SIT, so it mitigates the benefit a little bit.

 

[Greenhell]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14617205/jermaine-kearse-give-hometown-discount-stay-seattle-seahawks

Ingrate.

Just kidding, I just hope he breaks the bank somewhere else so the Seahawks get a comp pick. The Hawks have plenty of Receivers.

Baldwin
Lockett
Richardson
Kevin Smith
Kasen Williams

Jimmy Graham should be playing, and can lineup at receiver.

Saying "plenty of WR's" is a huge stretch. We have no idea what Graham will look like post injury.. Richardson hasn't stayed healthy.. Kevin Smith and Kasen Williams haven't shown anything special in games of importance.

That leaves two guys on the roster you know are capable. I'd much rather have Kearse back than a comp pick.

I agree. The dude has been clutch when needed most and shows up in big games. I'd rather see him stay if the $ works for both sides.

 

[kobebryant]

Clutch, smart, decent yac ... could see him as a heck of Patriot unfortunately (they've struggled to draft WRs too).

I wish him the best of performance and pay, wherever it may be. Local boy goes undrafted, gets a ring, and made some of the biggest plays in franchise history.

 

[Slick]

He doesn't owe anyone anything so I hope he assesses his maximum value and gets what he's worth.

I like Jermaine. He's made big catches in big games. Outside of those big games, he's a little inconsistent. The market will probably reflect that.

 

[BullHawk33]

As Bennett said, there is no such thing as a hometown discount.