Make No Mistake The 49ers are the Real Threat NOT the Rams

[Marvin49]

So what do fellow divisional fans think about this after two weeks?

My forecast was mostly right, but what I would tweak is the Rams OLine didn't fall off as I expected, so I think it is a true 3 team race.

I think so far so good, but losing Staley scares me.

They have the Steelers this week without Big Ben...and that actually worries me. Rudolph is an unknown. Niners just came off an emotional trip east and came back with a 2-0 record. They are feeling pretty good about themselves.

This makes me think this could be a trap game before the bye

Steelers are in danger of going 0-3. That organization ain't gonna lay down.

This will be a tougher game than I think most think.

You remind me of myself two years ago. Couldn't let myself believe the Rams might actually be legit.

Offense was never going to be a problem for the Niners with Shannahan - it was defense. And while they may not have been great teams, the 49ers beat down two teams playing their home openers - Niners could very well have a letdown (just like the Rams lost to the Redskins at home McVay's first year) - but with that schedule, the Niners will probably be 7-3 or 6-4 going into that last stretch. The defense looks pretty damn good, and if it stays that way, this is a formidable team. I think 10 wins is going to happen. Whether that's a playoff spot or not probably depends on conference record and head to head versus Seattle.

There is probably a lot of truth in that, but I've seen the Niners be good, so Its lot like I can't believe it. Its more that I am cautious because I've seen them come out of the gate fast and then tank. The Niners won in week one under BOTH Tomsula and Kelly....so while I see all the reasons for optimism and actually saw them before the season, I've been burned way to often to be definitive.

Additionally, the loss of Staley really does concern me. They lost Shon Coleman in preseason so literally the only tackles on their active Roster are McGlinchey and Skule, the last of which was a 6th round pick who struggled in preseason.

That always seems to be the killer....multiple injuries to the same position group.

 

[Fade]

Seahawks schedule doesn't look too bad either:

Saints
@Cardinals
Rams
@Browns
Ravens
@Falcons
Bucs
@Niners
BYE
@Eagles
Vikings
@Rams
@Panthers
Cardinals
Niners

For the Seahawks, they should be 4-0 going into the Thursday game at home against the Rams. That game will be huge for the Seahawks - based on how they've played through two weeks, I'd put them behind the Niners and Rams - the defense looks very shaky.

Seattle also drew the Eagles and Vikings, which is tough. I think 10-6 is also likely with this schedule.

Two cheap short field TDs for Pittsburgh off of fluke fumbles.

The defense looks good actually. They are shutting down the run, and only allowed 1 pass over 20 yards last week, plus a gimmicky flea-flicker. Ziggy is coming back this week.

Do yourself a favor and look up how the Seahawks do in night games over their history, and especially under Pete Carroll, when coincidentally they play both the Vikings & Eagles.

 

[Ramfan128]

Seahawks schedule doesn't look too bad either:

Saints
@Cardinals
Rams
@Browns
Ravens
@Falcons
Bucs
@Niners
BYE
@Eagles
Vikings
@Rams
@Panthers
Cardinals
Niners

For the Seahawks, they should be 4-0 going into the Thursday game at home against the Rams. That game will be huge for the Seahawks - based on how they've played through two weeks, I'd put them behind the Niners and Rams - the defense looks very shaky.

Seattle also drew the Eagles and Vikings, which is tough. I think 10-6 is also likely with this schedule.

Two cheap short field TDs for Pittsburgh off of fluke fumbles.

The defense looks good actually. They are shutting down the run, and only allowed 1 pass over 20 yards last week, plus a gimmicky flea-flicker. Ziggy is coming back this week.

Do yourself a favor and look up how the Seahawks do in night games over their history, and especially under Pete Carroll, when coincidentally they play both the Vikings & Eagles.

The shaky comment was more so about the Bengals, but you're right - I didn't realize how well the defense played against the Steelers overall. And at the end of the day, there was no film on what Zac Taylor and the Bengals were going to do, so that could explain Dalton's success in week one.

As for the primetime games:

2018 - 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road
2017 - 3-1 at home
2016 - 4-0 at home, 1-0-1 on the road
2015 - 1-1 at home, 1-1 on the road
2014 - 3-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2013 - 2-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2012 - 2-0 at home, 0-1 on the road

I'll stop there since that covers Wilson - on the road Seattle is 6-4-1, but 4 of those wins came when Seattle was definitively the best team in the NFL.

They're not scary in primetime - they're scary in primetime in Seattle. So playing at Philly and at LA isn't an advantage for Seattle even though those games are in primetime.

 

[Fade]

Seahawks schedule doesn't look too bad either:

Saints
@Cardinals
Rams
@Browns
Ravens
@Falcons
Bucs
@Niners
BYE
@Eagles
Vikings
@Rams
@Panthers
Cardinals
Niners

For the Seahawks, they should be 4-0 going into the Thursday game at home against the Rams. That game will be huge for the Seahawks - based on how they've played through two weeks, I'd put them behind the Niners and Rams - the defense looks very shaky.

Seattle also drew the Eagles and Vikings, which is tough. I think 10-6 is also likely with this schedule.

Two cheap short field TDs for Pittsburgh off of fluke fumbles.

The defense looks good actually. They are shutting down the run, and only allowed 1 pass over 20 yards last week, plus a gimmicky flea-flicker. Ziggy is coming back this week.






Do yourself a favor and look up how the Seahawks do in night games over their history, and especially under Pete Carroll, when coincidentally they play both the Vikings & Eagles.

The shaky comment was more so about the Bengals, but you're right - I didn't realize how well the defense played against the Steelers overall. And at the end of the day, there was no film on what Zac Taylor and the Bengals were going to do, so that could explain Dalton's success in week one.

As for the primetime games:

2018 - 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road
2017 - 3-1 at home
2016 - 4-0 at home, 1-0-1 on the road
2015 - 1-1 at home, 1-1 on the road
2014 - 3-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2013 - 2-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2012 - 2-0 at home, 0-1 on the road

I'll stop there since that covers Wilson - on the road Seattle is 6-4-1, but 4 of those wins came when Seattle was definitively the best team in the NFL.

They're not scary in primetime - they're scary in primetime in Seattle. So playing at Philly and at LA isn't an advantage for Seattle even though those games are in primetime.

Here is how it has gone -->
====

MNF
2012 1-0
2013 1-0 (1-0 Division)
2014 1-0
2015 1-0
2016 1-0
2017 0-1
2018 1-1

The Seahawks historically have the highest win % in MNF history. The Russell Wilson Seahawks are 6-2.

SNF
2012 1-0
2013 2-0 (1-0 Division)
2014 2-0 (1-0 Division)
2015 0-2 (0-1 Division)
2016 2-0-1 (Tie Division)
2017 2-0
2018 1-0

Outside of 2015 The Russell Wilson Seahawks have never lost on SNF. (10-2-1)

TNF
2012 0-1 (Division)
2013 1-0 (Division)
2014 1-0 (Division)
2015 1-0 (Division)
2016 1-0 (Division)
2017 1-0 (Division)
2018 1-0

The Russell Wilson Seahawks are 6-1 on TNF. The only loss coming early in his Rookie year to the Super Bowl bound 49ers.

And yet here you are handing out losses to the Seahawks on MNF, SNF, & TNF like candy.

 

[rcaido]

His numbers were wrong too.

2018 - 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road
2017 - 3-1 at home
2016 - 4-0 at home, 1-0-1 on the road
2015 - 1-1 at home, 1-1 on the road
2014 - 3-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2013 - 2-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2012 - 2-0 at home, 0-1 on the road

In 2017 Seahawks beat the Cardinals so that 1-0
In 2014 Seahawks were 3-0 on the road not 2-0

Wilson era

Home Prime Time
W17 -2 L

Away Prime Time
W8-4-1

Prime Time Total
W25-4-1

 

[Fade]

His numbers were wrong too.

2018 - 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road
2017 - 3-1 at home
2016 - 4-0 at home, 1-0-1 on the road
2015 - 1-1 at home, 1-1 on the road
2014 - 3-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2013 - 2-0 at home, 2-0 on the road
2012 - 2-0 at home, 0-1 on the road

In 2017 Seahawks beat the Cardinals so that 1-0
In 2014 Seahawks were 3-0 on the road not 2-0

Wilson era

Home Prime Time
W17 -2 L

Away Prime Time
W8-4-1

Prime Time Total
W25-4-1

You must be factoring in post season. I only listed regular season.

25-6-1 is pretty sick though.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

People will continue to ignore that Russ is one of the best QB's in the history of the game, already. And clearly one of the most clutch QB's in huge games and when the game is on the line.
It's ok, when he's in the HOF, people will still say it was because of the D and the running game. :yawn:

 

[xray]

The 49ers might be the big surprise in the NFC west this season . They can go 4-2 in the division quite easily . IMO

 

[Shanegotyou11]

So what do fellow divisional fans think about this after two weeks?

My forecast was mostly right, but what I would tweak is the Rams OLine didn't fall off as I expected, so I think it is a true 3 team race.

I said this in the spring as well. Superbowl loss teams usually fall off and SF i knew would improve. I even put wins in the predictions for each team.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There is a LOT of football to be played. Crowning the Niners a great team already? Funny
If they keep this up going in to mid-November, I'll believe a little more. Plus, they just lost Staley.

 

[Popeyejones]

The Rams, 49ers and Seahawks are a combined 6-0.

The teams they've beaten are a combined 1-5.

The only win came from the Rams beating the Saints, who had Drew Brees for their week 1 win but not their loss to the Rams.

Is the NFC West good or have NFC West teams so far just gotten lucky from playing crap teams and teams without their QBs?

So far I don't think we've learned anything about the Rams or Seahawks: we expected them to be able to beat crappy teams. What we've learned about the 9ers is that unlike the last few years they also have a shot at beating crappy teams too.

So, if you went into the season predicting that all three teams would end up around or above .500, that sounding about right is what we know so far, which ain't much.

In reality, the teams we've beaten are a combined 2-2 if you remove the games that we've won against them.

Bucs are 1-0 against non NFC West opponents. Bengals are 0-0. Panthers are 0-1. Saints are 1-0. Steelers are 0-1.

The Rams did about what I think they should have done - but even still, all three teams have traveled across the country and won at 1pm ET.

I get what you're saying though, because many of the 2-0 teams (all except the Packers) have played bad teams to start the year.

Ahh, thanks. I forgot that the Bucs beat the Panthers.

So the 9ers and Rams have both beaten a team that won its game against a non-NFC W opponent, so the Rams/9ers/Seahawks are 6-0 against opponents who are 2-4, not 1-5.

I still think the Bucs, Bengals, and Saints and Steelers (w/out their QBs) suck, though. :lol:

 

[NINEster]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

 

[Ramfan128]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

 

[chris98251]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

Hmm but no comment on what the Patriots did to the Rams...…………...

 

[Fade]

The 49ers should trade for Jalen Ramsey.

As a Seahawks fan I hope they don't, but they totally should.

 

[Marvin49]

The 49ers should trade for Jalen Ramsey.

As a Seahawks fan I hope they don't, but they totally should.

Nah.

1) Witherspoon has been fantastic so far this year.
2) If they trade a one, they already don't have a 2 so their first pick is in round 3.
3) The can't give him a huge contract because they will very soon need to resign DeForest Buckner, George Kittle, etc.
4) They don't need that headache in the locker room.

Seahawks started making these kinds of moves when they were good to get them over the top. I think both Harvin and Graham were mistakes, but even if they weren't, Niners aren't nearly as close as those Seahawk teams were.

 

[Ramfan128]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

Hmm but no comment on what the Patriots did to the Rams...…………...

See above. And it wasn't exclusive to that play - the Rams had open WRs for most of the game. That was on Goff, not McVay.

 

[chris98251]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

Hmm but no comment on what the Patriots did to the Rams...…………...

See above. And it wasn't exclusive to that play - the Rams had open WRs for most of the game. That was on Goff, not McVay.

I tend to think it was on the Patriots for being able to figure out how to apply pressure and take away hot reads and outlets.

 

[Marvin49]

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

Hmm but no comment on what the Patriots did to the Rams...…………...

See above. And it wasn't exclusive to that play - the Rams had open WRs for most of the game. That was on Goff, not McVay.

I tend to think it was on the Patriots for being able to figure out how to apply pressure and take away hot reads and outlets.

By "able to figure out", if you mean "clone what the Bears did", then you would be correct.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

The 49ers should trade for Jalen Ramsey.

As a Seahawks fan I hope they don't, but they totally should.

I felt they shouldn't until Witherspoon went down. He thinks he'll be back after the bye, but if not, I'd consider pulling the trigger.