Michael Bowie on IR

[chris98251]

Just a thought concerning injuries to the O line, with our practice techniques are we causing it because they are always at full speed and we have ankle roll ups and shoulder issues because of the aggression and also since they are protecting versus being the attackers absorb more punishment, also the defense rotates players a lot more and are fresher.

 

[HawkWow]

HawkWow -

Hawk fans seem to have this conversation every year since Hutch left. If the coaches were that worried about the line they would've drafted an OL early instead of going with Richardson or addressed the need during free agency. The Hawks seem to get banged up every year on the OL and end up doing just fine because they have a great coach in Tom Cable who finds talent in the scrap heap and coaches them up. Unger was worthy of the Pro Bowl a couple of years ago but he was really banged up last year, which led to a decline. All the reports I've read on Unger this year say he looks healthier and better than last year. If more injuries happen on the OL I'll start to get worried but I have all the faith in the world that John, Pete and Tom will figure it out if things get rough.

I know you know Wilson was the most pressured QB in the league last year and those NFCW Ds are now even tougher. Scarier would be a better word. I have no idea why the FO would be confident in our line. It astonishes me. How many times was Lynch hit at or behind the LOS? That had to be the worst O line to ever win a modern day SB.

And we'd do well to keep Cable at the scrap heap and out of the war room, imo. I mean no disrespect, we are just real far off on this, Hawkfiend. The O line is our lone weak spot, imo and that speedy new receiver is going to be chasing his tail if RW goes down. Shudder to think.

 

[kearly]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

 

[chris98251]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

I wonder if it has to do with the PUP and bring back to roster situation and how that works, is there a work around if he clears waivers and can be brought back on another designation.

Also I think this is a message, your hurt ok , but you're hurt by not doing what you need to do, cut you and put you on the IR, now you're back to square one. Get healed, get in shape, or get out.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I'm still more optimistic about the O-Line than I was two weeks ago.

Okung is still a mystery but it seems the rest of the line is prepared to progress.

Alvin Bailey, who did not get injured today, has been holding his own and might be the future at the position in a year or two.

James Carpenter, by all accounts, looks to be great shape, but he's still a behometh of a man.

Max Unger, looks healthy and said to be in much better shape than he was a year ago.

JR Sweezy, continues to gain more experience, he's was more than solid starting in his 2nd season, and gaining 20 pounds of muscle over the off-season makes him one of the physically intimidating guards in the NFL.

Michael Bowie, was a surprise in 2013, but what you did yesterday is not as important in what you do today, and it seems Bowie didn't put in the work over the off-season to be prepared and now his shoulder injury is unfortuante.

But Bowie's lost isn't a big one, not when you replace his 9 starts with a player with 119 starts. And I at least not speaking for anyone else have belief that Eric Winston is not only going to be an upgrade over Bowie but Winston can be an upgrade over Giacomini.

Britt, also is a better position to learn at his own pace without the weight of expectations, behind a conssumate savvy veteran that wants to be a mentor for him. A great situation for him because he was struggling against the pass-rush.

I still see a lot of good things an this Offensive Line, health withstanding, will be tremendously better that what we had in 2013 and likely improved than what we had in 2012.

But again that is me and my optimism. Can't say the same for you.

 

[bjornanderson21]

HawkWow -

Hawk fans seem to have this conversation every year since Hutch left. If the coaches were that worried about the line they would've drafted an OL early instead of going with Richardson or addressed the need during free agency. The Hawks seem to get banged up every year on the OL and end up doing just fine because they have a great coach in Tom Cable who finds talent in the scrap heap and coaches them up. Unger was worthy of the Pro Bowl a couple of years ago but he was really banged up last year, which led to a decline. All the reports I've read on Unger this year say he looks healthier and better than last year. If more injuries happen on the OL I'll start to get worried but I have all the faith in the world that John, Pete and Tom will figure it out if things get rough.

Uggghhhh.....when will the myth that Tom Cable is a good oline coach die?

He has not improved the o-line and he is a horrible talent evaluator.

In all honesty, Tom Cable is the weakest link on the coaching staff and he has not produced any results that support him keeping his job. He finds turds and he tries to polish them but at the end of the day they are still just turds.

 

[IndyHawk]

OL depth is shot...not good going into season. Back to square 1 for offensive pass protection. I'm afraid to say it, but, RW is going to get sacked alot. ukeface:

Just love your positive vibe...We have lost before the season even starts..

 

[Bob_the_Destroyer]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

Injured players get placed on waivers so they won't count against the 90-man roster. If Bowie clears waivers, which he probably will, he will be put on IR and get another chance next year.

Too bad he hurt his shoulder just minutes into the first practice, where he was so out of shape he couldn't keep up. Because he practiced, even if only for a few minutes, he cannot be placed on PUP, where he also would not have counted against the 90-man limit, and he would have had the option to play later in the season.

The Seahawks aren't giving up on Bowie, but it says something that they are willing to risk losing him on waivers, compared to a Jesse Williams, for example, who is on IR, but probably won't be put in waivers and will continue to be on the 90-man roster (but not the 53-man roster once the season starts.)

Pete Caroll and Tom Cable have to be super pissed-off with Bowie and probably wouldn't care that much if they lost him. Michael Bowie is a lazy, stupid, irresponsible, immature, fat-assed, dumb-assed knucklehead, just like he was in college. He was on a fast-track to being a long term starter in the NFL, but he blew it. When a great head coach like Pete Carroll asks his players to have the off-seaon of their lives, it is unbelievable that someone like that comes in completely out of shape, overweight and unready to practice or play.

I suspect the shoulder isn't that bad. They had been calling it a "tweek". He just isn't ready to practice so once they saw Winston was going to work out, they decided to stash Bowie on IR until next year. Hopefully, he has learned his lesson and comes back in peak condition, but I really, really doubt it. These kinds of knuckleheads rarely get their acts together.

.

 

[Bob_the_Destroyer]

I'm still more optimistic about the O-Line than I was two weeks ago.

Okung is still a mystery but it seems the rest of the line is prepared to progress.

Alvin Bailey, who did not get injured today, has been holding his own and might be the future at the position in a year or two.

James Carpenter, by all accounts, looks to be great shape, but he's still a behometh of a man.

Max Unger, looks healthy and said to be in much better shape than he was a year ago.

JR Sweezy, continues to gain more experience, he's was more than solid starting in his 2nd season, and gaining 20 pounds of muscle over the off-season makes him one of the physically intimidating guards in the NFL.

Michael Bowie, was a surprise in 2013, but what you did yesterday is not as important in what you do today, and it seems Bowie didn't put in the work over the off-season to be prepared and now his shoulder injury is unfortuante.

But Bowie's lost isn't a big one, not when you replace his 9 starts with a player with 119 starts. And I at least not speaking for anyone else have belief that Eric Winston is not only going to be an upgrade over Bowie but Winston can be an upgrade over Giacomini.

Britt, also is a better position to learn at his own pace without the weight of expectations, behind a conssumate savvy veteran that wants to be a mentor for him. A great situation for him because he was struggling against the pass-rush.

I still see a lot of good things an this Offensive Line, health withstanding, will be tremendously better that what we had in 2013 and likely improved than what we had in 2012.

But again that is me and my optimism. Can't say the same for you.

I am *super* optimistic about the offensive line. It is probably the best in the Carroll era and has the potential to be great, one of the best in the league.

The last two seasons we were saddled with mediocre Breno Giacomini, mediocre Paul McQuistan, developing JR Sweezy and injured, lackluster and unmotivated James Carpenter. Carpenter is now super-motivated, a completely new person. Sweezy has arrived. Giacomini and McQuistan are gone, replaced by an army of talent: Justin Britt, Eric Winston, Garry Gilliam, Stephen Schilling, Garrett Scott (long term), and 350-lb, 22-year-old Nate Isles.

Look close, there is now a *lot* of talent on the O-line.

Okung, when healthy, is one of the top handful of linemen in the game. Unger was a pro-bowler and voted on to the NFL Network's Top-100 players after the 2012 season. JR Sweezy is just breaking out as an elite lineman, and could be the best offensive lineman for the Seahawks, Carpenter could have a breakout season and I would not be totally shocked if he has a pro-bowl caliber year. That's four potential pro-bowl caliber players, with Carpenter as a longshot.

I am very high on Justin Britt. I think he will be our starting right tackle for many years to come, starting this year. He was a brilliant draft pick, far better than, say, Joel Boitano, or the favorite of our local know-nothing media, OG Xavier Su'a-Filo.

There is a good lineup of backups: Winston, who could start, was unsuccessful his last two stops, but he should be good now that he is back to his famliar zone-blocking scheme. Hauptmann is an athletic specimen and very young, Bailey is young, but soild. Jean-Pierre has another year of experience at center. Schilling is better than Giacomini or McQuistan. Gilliam shows a lot of longterm promise. Garrett Scott who, contrary to media rumors, is expected back next year adds to the long term depth. Michael Bowie, if he gets his act together, also adds to the long term depth.

The Seahawks are loaded with talent on the offensive line. Great starters, great backups, lot of young guys for the future. I don't know what people are looking for. Have they been so brainwashed by the local media, that they think drafting OG Xavier Su'a-Filo (Britt is way better) would have magically changed everything? We have a couple of players - Okung and Carpenter - who can be called injury prone, but even given that, there s no reason to believe we will experience the unusual rash of injuries we had last season.

.

 

[McG]

What in the hell is it with the Seattle Seahawks and offensive line injuries?

I think witchcraft is real, and Steve Hutchinson cursed our line forevermore.

HA, if you believe that then I'm sure that you think that magicians, psychics, mediums, ghosts (ghost hunters-HA), are all real. I know you are half kidding, but what is real about football is that it's a contact sport. The line is where contact happens probably 95% of the time, with the teams strongest players. Not only that, but they are also the players that have their bodies at their biggest, which equals to the most amount of stress on their body due to the added size/weight. Ask Mark Schlereth (current ESPN NFL analyst and radio host and former NFL guard for 12 seasons for the Redskins and Broncos) how taxing playing o-line on your body is. He had 29 surgeries and still played most of the time hurt. I'm just saying that I'm surprised that more injuries don't originate from the offensive and defensive lines. In all reality most of them are probably playing hurt, but it's not enough to put them on IR or to put them out for a period of time. There's not a jinx due to a player who "futched" us 8 years ago, it's more of a "big things crashing into other big things is bad, umm kay" thing.

 

[Scottemojo]

Exposing him to waivers is a massive statement about Bowie, as was the Wally Pipp comment. With him it isn't about talent, it is about drive. It seems the hawks are very disappointed in his conditioning, but trying to motivate the guy through media comments has never been a Pete thing, and feels kind of like they are grasping at straws trying to get through to him. Kicked off his college team, and now this.

I, like others suspect his injury is not that bad, but this is a way for the Hawks to develop him for one more year. And see if he responds.

 

[DavidSeven]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

Injured players get placed on waivers so they won't count against the 90-man roster. If Bowie clears waivers, which he probably will, he will be put on IR and get another chance next year.
.

Players placed directly on IR (e.g. Jesse Williams, Anthony McCoy) don't count against the 90 man roster. Those players are not exposed to waivers either. From my understanding, they could have put the same designation on Bowie if they wanted to.

I agree with Scotte. Putting Bowie on waiver/IR, as opposed to IR, may be a statement to Bowie more than anything else.

 

[drdiags]

Also, if the team wanted to they could sign him back after he cleared waivers and he could play this year if need be. He could get his injury settlement and be eligible to play for anyone this year as well. I think there have been Seahawks players in the past that have been waived/injured and signed later in the season, but I could be making this stuff up?

Right now, if he goes unclaimed the team can sign him back and put him on IR or they can just have a injury settlement with the option to bring him back later this year. Maybe putting him on IR would have guaranteed him more money vs an injury settlement and signing him later in the season, etc.

All just speculation on my part since I don't really know the financial mechanics in all the various scenarios.

 

[Jville]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

My understanding is that if the player is moved directly to the IR ...... they are credited for that year toward the pension fund.

However, if a player is waved first before being placed on IR, they do not receive credit for that year toward the pension fund.

I would infer that the difference is a judgement call on whether a specific player has earned an accredited year or not.

If the player is placed on IR after wavers, an injury settlement is still an option if the the team chooses not to retain the player. I think we saw that route play out in the case of guard Jared Smith .... AKA Fat Rabbit.

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

One thing that confuses me, can anyone clarify why a team would expose a player to waivers if there is a method to IR a player without doing so?

Typically when a player is waived/injured its because the injury is non-season-ending and it provides the opportunity (if mutually desired) to negotiate an injury settlement to allow the player to pursue other opportunities with another club if he goes unclaimed on waivers (or to return to the releasing team at a later point in the season). In this case, however, Bowie's injury is clearly a season-ender, so the fact that the Hawks waived/injured him is a sure indication that the Hawks don't think enough of Bowie (at present) to the point that they would not mind if he we was claimed on waivers by another team, thus taking the Hawks off of the financial hook for his salary/contract or injury settlement. If they'd put him on I.R. straight away, they'd owe him every penny of his 2014 salary (which would continue to count against the Hawks' 2014 salary cap as well). As others in this thread have stated, this move (rather than placing him directly on I.R.) was a clear statement to/about Bowie, from the Seahawks' coaching staff and front office.

 

[kearly]

I just saw this posted from a few minutes ago, might explain things a bit:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... d-process/

Basically, if you IR a player with less than 4 years NFL experience before the first cutdown (75 players) date, you must put him on waivers first.

When they IR'd McCoy and Williams, they kept them on the 90 man roster and will continue to do so until August 26th when the first cutdown happens and they can remove them from the roster at that time.

By using the waive/injured method for Bowie now, the benefit is that it frees a roster spot today, rather than 3 weeks from now. So there is *SOME* tangible benefit to an NFL team for using this method.

If they'd put him on I.R. straight away, they'd owe him every penny of his 2014 salary (which would continue to count against the Hawks' 2014 salary cap as well).

According to the Times article above, if Bowie clears waivers and is put on IR he'd be like any other IR'd player, the team would still have to pay his salary. If the team wants to avoid paying his salary the only way to do that is to release him completely after the waiver period ends.

If Pete doubts Bowie is part of their future, release could be a viable option. Unless the injury settlement counts against the cap (The team says Bowie would miss 4-6 MONTHS which would mean his settlement would be for 16 game checks). If settlements do count against the cap then there would be basically no savings, and IR would be the smart move.

 

[drdiags]

Was going to post the same article Kearly just did. BTW, according to Curtis Crabtree, Jesse Williams was also waived/injured prior to being put on IR. Otherwise, the Condotta article would not make sense (less than 4 years stipulation) because Jesse's roster spot was not left open, neither was McCoy's.

 

[kearly]

McCoy is entering his 5th NFL season so he's exempt from this rule, which covers players who have 3 years or less of service time. So with Williams getting waived/IR too, it all adds up nicely now.

 

[NorthDallas40oz]

If they'd put him on I.R. straight away, they'd owe him every penny of his 2014 salary (which would continue to count against the Hawks' 2014 salary cap as well).

According to the Times article above, if Bowie clears waivers and is put on IR he'd be like any other IR'd player, the team would still have to pay his salary. If the team wants to avoid paying his salary the only way to do that is to release him completely after the waiver period ends.

If Pete doubts Bowie is part of their future, release could be a viable option.

Yes, I know he gets his full salary if he gets placed on IR, whether it's through direct placement or following the waived/injured process. I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just pointing out that they would be off the hook completely if Bowie were to be claimed on waivers.

Also, injured players cannot be outright released, unless an injury settlement is reached, which doesn't happen in cases like Bowie's where the injury is a season-ender.

 

[kearly]

I think you replied to me in mid-edit, I mentioned the settlements. I'm curious to know if settlements count against the cap though. I assume they do but haven't found confirmation.

Edit: Confirmed by google, settlements do count against the cap.