NFL coaches on Wilson, according to Cossell

[JMR]

By "shoulders more of the offense" do you mean that he gets to throw the ball more when it's not third and long? It's all relative. I would say that Russell has done a better job of exacuting his game plan. I also think that comparing these two is like comparing Brady and Manning the greater.

Is this really all you see when you watch the Colts play? It's just as simple as more pass attempts?

 

[Steve2222]

We'll I'm sure many coaches still doubted Tom Brady early in his career as well. He didn't really start lighting the league on fire until his third Super Bowl season.

 

[TXHawkFan]

By "shoulders more of the offense" do you mean that he gets to throw the ball more when it's not third and long? It's all relative. I would say that Russell has done a better job of exacuting his game plan. I also think that comparing these two is like comparing Brady and Manning the greater.

Is this really all you see when you watch the Colts play? It's just as simple as more pass attempts?

He shoulders more and produces less. Fewer touchdown passes, fewer yards per attempt, fewer points per game, and fewer wins while playing in a weak division and against softer defenses.

Andrew Luck fans never provide any stats to help back up their claims of why he should be considered the best young quarterback and ranked ahead of Russell Wilson, because they can't. It's always vague stuff like "shoulders more of the offense" or unprovable hypothetical speculation about how great Luck would perform if surrounded by the talent that Russell Wilson has. When you start quoting actual stats commonly used to measure quarterback performance they dismiss it with a flurry of excuses and rationalizations.

The bottom line is that Wilson has been a much more efficient and effective quarterback than Luck to this point in their careers and it hasn't been close.

 

[Hawkspur]

I can't work out why anyone cares what Greg Cosell says. He's quite possibly (probably)the most self-aggrandizing and objectionable individual in a profession that is full of them. But with even more questionable judgment than most. I don't get it.

 

[JMR]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Arians. I am confident he was one of the sources.

That gave me a belly laugh. He is the first person that came to my mind. I hope we kick that beret-wearing sideline piggy into the next century next season. I want to roast that ######### over a spit! :twisted: He is the of the NFC West version of Rex Ryan.

 

[truehawksfan]

Haters are going to hate.

And, they will continue to hate even when the Seahawks win multiple Super Bowls.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I agree 100%. Why do we have to beat down a very good young QB to make our own look better? Give Luck a defense as effective as ours and I'd venture to say we would have faced the Colts Super Bowl. As I've said before, Luck is a much smarter, more mobile and more elusive version of Rapelessburger. He's on the path to greatness, IMO. That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with Cosell's assessment of Russell Wilson. 'Slightly above average" is well below the mark for Russell Wilson and reeks of bias, IMO. I envision both Wilson and Luck as future HOFers given their current trajectory. How cool would it be to see a Hawks vs Colts Super Bowl? Another anointed vs under-rated QB, but the contest would be much closer. I'd really like to see is our 'Nerd Nation' guys stop being in such awe of Luck. Saying that he has no tendencies is utter BS (Sherman). That mindset mostly likely factored into our loss in Indy. Treat him like any other QB in the league... Do you film study, then go for the jugular.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

Hello Far-From-a-Luck-Fan. Let's be fair and not minimize Lucks better position for success being given the keys to a franchise, all the passes he needs to grow as a passer, good O line, good receivers in Wayne and TY. You like many who attribute Seattle 's success to its great defense and strong running game. Give RW his due for winning the job and always competing every day against such a great defense while throwing love to the running game. Guys like you probably never saw RW tackle a Michigan State corner 20 yd down field following an INT but rant on about Lucks similar play at Stanford. RW is a gamer and it shows in his comebacks as well as his consistent play. RW has played in worse passing teams than Luck and it isn't close. Yet he has been consistent as a passer and leader even in playoffs. How's Luck ' s fortune been in playoffs when it counts?

 

[bigtrain21]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I would argue that Russell Wilson is putting up better numbers per attempt than Luck while being held back by Pete because we have such a dominant defense and don't need to score as many points. Not held back developmentally, held back from big statistics. He has thrown 52 touchdowns with just 19 interceptions and averages 8.1 Y/A. Strong defense and running game aside, those numbers are extremely impressive and I hate it when people minimize them due to the team he is on. As a Seahawks fan, you really should know better.

I like Luck but to say he is better than Wilson at this point is kind of silly. There is not one statistic that says he is better and Luck has faced significantly worse defenses up to this point than Wilson has to face in the NFC and Wilson puts up better numbers per attempt vs those defenses.

 

[brimsalabim]

By "shoulders more of the offense" do you mean that he gets to throw the ball more when it's not third and long? It's all relative. I would say that Russell has done a better job of exacuting his game plan. I also think that comparing these two is like comparing Brady and Manning the greater.

Is this really all you see when you watch the Colts play? It's just as simple as more pass attempts?

No and Look I’m not denigrating Luck here I just don’t understand how anyone could laugh at Russell Wilson in comparison. Yes they are asked to do different things and I will grant that the Seahawks are the better team (even though we lost the head to head). Your ascertain that Luck “shoulders a greater load can be spun the other direction. Luck is given free rain to stand back there and “grip it and rip it” and is NEVER held accountable for his mistakes. Russell on the other hand is asked to be a point guard and facilitate his teammates all the while limiting his mistakes as well as those of his teammates. In addition he is often asked to bail out the offense when they are up against the wall. Pete has asked him to know when to do each. Luck doesn't have to worry about that. He can throw three picks in a play off game and still be lauded for his performance. I would argue that the pressure on Russ is substantially greater than that place upon the shoulders of Andrew Luck. Russell has done all that is asked of him and has brought his team a Lombardi. I’m thinking it’s a safe bet that Russell will keep his job longer than any NFL coach laughing at him now.

 

[TXHawkFan]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I don't mean to jump down your throat, JMR, but I've been in this debate on other forums and Luck's supporters consistently want to ignore real world stats and results in favor of the type of vague premises you are using.

Has a lot been placed on Luck's shoulders? Sure. Well how about being the quarterback of a team expected in the preseason to make a Super Bowl run? And then having to play most of the season without two of your top receivers and behind a patchwork offensive line that was borderline awful at times while playing regularly against top tier defenses? And playing in the toughest division in the league where any misstep can cost home field advantage and force the team to win three road games as a wildcard? And then expected to outscore a team in the Super Bowl with a future HOF quarterback and the most prolific offense of all time?

Think there might have been just a bit of pressure on Russell Wilson's shoulders as well?

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Nobody is trying to beat down Andrew Luck but sheet you guys are as far up Drews anus as colts fans. When folks say RW can't carry Lucks jockstrap we prove otherwise. Now you guys who love Luck are crying foul on hawks fan site. Really? Really?

 

[RussWils3]

I'm honestly shocked by the admission. He is not above average. He's a star with a ring.

 

[JMR]

This is sorta weird. I'm a HUGE RW fan. My fave player in the NFL. Probably already my favorite Seahawk ever.

But at the same time I think it's ok to acknowledge what is going on around the league, appreciate other players without being a traitor. There's more to the game than pure stats. Usually stats are used to validate what your eyeballs are telling you. Russell has great measures of performance in the stats that indicate effectiveness...ypa, TD:INT, passer rating. He's an amazing player, no two ways about it. To say he's "slightly above average" is ridiculous, which I've already stated.

And it's ok to love on our guys without thinking they have to be the best at their position in the NFL.

 

[Shadowhawk]

Anybody who honestly believes that Wilson is "slightly above average" needs to watch the second half of our playoff game in Atlanta last year. Our vaunted defense wasn't getting it done and our running game was stuck in neutral. Carroll took all of the reins off Wilson and he all-but-single-handedly brought this team back from a 20-0 deficit.

Too many "experts" and coaches look at nothing but stats. I'm sure the people that Cosell allegedly spoke with think that Matthew Stafford is a better QB than Wilson because he throws for more yards. They see Wilson throw for 200-some yards a game and assume that's all he CAN throw for. Idiots, the lot of them.

I look forward to re-reading this article a few years from now when this "slightly above average QB" is sporting a few more rings and driving one or more of the free cars he was given for being Super Bowl MVP.

 

[randomation]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I agree 100%. Why do we have to beat down a very good young QB to make our own look better? Give Luck a defense as effective as ours and I'd venture to say we would have faced the Colts Super Bowl. As I've said before, Luck is a much smarter, more mobile and more elusive version of Rapelessburger. He's on the path to greatness, IMO. That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with Cosell's assessment of Russell Wilson. 'Slightly above average" is well below the mark for Russell Wilson and reeks of bias, IMO. I envision both Wilson and Luck as future HOFers given their current trajectory. How cool would it be to see a Hawks vs Colts Super Bowl? Another anointed vs under-rated QB, but the contest would be much closer. I'd really like to see is our 'Nerd Nation' guys stop being in such awe of Luck. Saying that he has no tendencies is utter BS (Sherman). That mindset mostly likely factored into our loss in Indy. Treat him like any other QB in the league... Do you film study, then go for the jugular.

Luck had the number 9 scoring D, if he didn't throw 4 picks against the patriots to put his D in a massive hole its quite possible we would be facing them but he threw 7 picks in 2 playoff games sorry but that doesn't say amazing QB to me.

 

[pocketprotector]

The colts averaged 8.7 wins per season the three years before acquiring Luck, and have averaged 11 wins per year since.
The seahawks averaged 6.3 wins per season the three years before acquiring Luck, and have averaged 12 wins per year since.

Russell Wilson has had 2 seasons with a passer rating over 100
Tom Brady has had 3 seasons with a passer rating over 100
Andrew Luck has yet to have a season passer rating over 90.

In the playoffs, Andrew luck has thrown interceptions at a rate 13 times greater per game than Russell Wilson.

Andrew Luck has yet to throw more touchdowns than Russell Wilson in a regular season. Yup, Andrew is really carrying that team on his back while Russell is just tagging along!

Russell Wilson has thrown for 8.1 yards per attempt
Andrew Luck has thrown for 6.8 yards per attempt

This year the Colts averaged 4.3 yards per rush attempt
This year the Seahawks averaged 4.3 yards per rush attempt

But wait.... the colts and the seahawks rushed for the same yardage per attempt? I thought Russell was being propped up by his amazing running game while Andrew is forced to carry his team? Or is it the fact that Russell's far superior passing efficiency props up the Seahawks running game?

I also find it amazing that the Seahawks had 4 straight seasons with a losing record before drafting Russell, and yet people say that he has the benefit of playing on a stacked team. What a coincidence! They went from a bunch of players who couldn't manage to pull out a winning season to world beaters... and it just so happened to coincide with the drafting of a quarterback who has put up all time great efficiency numbers for his first two seasons in the league. Wow, how lucky for a slightly above average qb like Russell.

Here is the bottom line, people don't like to admit when they are wrong. They all pegged Luck as an all time great and Russell as no better than a backup before either one of them stepped foot on an NFL field. There are some huge egos in the nfl and the networks that cover it, and they will hold on to that narrative for as long as they can. But it is undeniable that Russell has been the far superior quarterback his first two years on the league, and shame on any seahawks fan who is still to blind to recognize that.

 

[JMR]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I agree 100%. Why do we have to beat down a very good young QB to make our own look better? Give Luck a defense as effective as ours and I'd venture to say we would have faced the Colts Super Bowl. As I've said before, Luck is a much smarter, more mobile and more elusive version of Rapelessburger. He's on the path to greatness, IMO. That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with Cosell's assessment of Russell Wilson. 'Slightly above average" is well below the mark for Russell Wilson and reeks of bias, IMO. I envision both Wilson and Luck as future HOFers given their current trajectory. How cool would it be to see a Hawks vs Colts Super Bowl? Another anointed vs under-rated QB, but the contest would be much closer. I'd really like to see is our 'Nerd Nation' guys stop being in such awe of Luck. Saying that he has no tendencies is utter BS (Sherman). That mindset mostly likely factored into our loss in Indy. Treat him like any other QB in the league... Do you film study, then go for the jugular.

Luck had the number 9 scoring D, if he didn't throw 4 picks against the patriots to put his D in a massive hole its quite possible we would be facing them but he threw 7 picks in 2 playoff games sorry but that doesn't say amazing QB to me.

I agree: Luck played poorly for most of the playoffs. And overall, I think he gets too much credit for "comebacks" when his early mistakes contributed to his team getting behind.

Taking the situations into account, I think Luck is in a tougher spot to succeed (so far) and I'm impressed overall by his performance given what's being asked of him and what he has for a supporting cast.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

In 2011 while Andrew Luck was being billed and positioned to win a Heisman there was a transfer player at Wisconsin who was met with way less fanfare. National pundits who don't follow him closely didn't understand his success and attribute it to the team's running game and stout defense. Luck was valiantly leading comebacks and game-winners but so was this player hidden in Wisconsin.
Funny how history tends to repeat itself. While Luck continues to be groomed as THE SUCCESSOR a guy name Wilson in the PNW continues to excel like an elite player without national fanfare. Luck will continue to have all the media's love because he has NFL 'bloodline' and the backing of big name connections. For RW there is no better compliment than the respect of your opponents. Check out this article from 2011.
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2011/10/spartans_pat_narduzzi_knows_ba.html