NFL coaches on Wilson, according to Cossell

[Russ Willstrong]

As for too quick to escape? How long do you think he needs to stay in a pocket when it is collapsing almost instantly. He played top defenses and with a patchwork offensive line much of the season. Luck and Manzeil have been known to do the same for self-preservation and to extend plays. If you don't then you become a sack statistics. Also if you can make an easier play outside the pocket without getting plastered to the turf you wouldn't be too stupid would you.

 

[TJH]

As for too quick to escape? How long do you think he needs to stay in a pocket when it is collapsing almost instantly. He played top defenses and with a patchwork offensive line much of the season. Luck and Manzeil have been known to do the same for self-preservation and to extend plays. If you don't then you become a sack statistics. Also if you can make an easier play outside the pocket without getting plastered to the turf you wouldn't be too stupid would you.

I'm not talking about all plays and sometimes the interior line did struggle, but there many times where is was obvious he had a large pocket in front of him and he ran right into the edge pressure. As per making easier plays outside of the pocket, the problem with that is when escaping laterally you are effectively cutting your reads and the play's design in half. I have no problem with him escaping out when he has to, but he became skittish at stretches through the year and bailed early, often resulting in holding onto the ball much longer than he should. If you listen to Pete's halftime talk with the sideline reporter in the NFCC his criticism was with Wilson not getting the ball out fast enough, not with the protection. What Wilson did in the Superbowl in terms of stepping INTO the pocket and being decisive was awesome and what the designes dictate.

 

[TXHawkFan]

Here's a challenge: can anyone still claiming Luck is a better QB than Wilson provide any argument not involving unprovable hypothetical situations (if they reversed teams Luck would have had equal/more success), vague premises (Luck shoulders a greater burden), or appeals to authority (most GMs would still draft Luck higher) to support that claim? After two full seasons there has to be some statistical evidence that Luck is the better quarterback. Right?

So let's see it.

So compare the two with stats alone without any context to anything? That's an awful way to evaluate talent, especially at the QB position.

It's done all the time. Otherwise how could you claim that Luck has been better than, say, Brandon Weeden who has been playing with inferior personnel with the Browns?

All starting quarterbacks play with varying quality of personnel surrounding them and in different schemes, yet we make judgements all the time on them based on their performances without having to rely on hypotheticals. Why should Luck be any different? When one QB is evaluated as being more talented than another shouldn't that reveal itself in real world results at some point? Their stories are far from complete but two full seasons as starters is no longer a small sample size either.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

TJH. Give it up. RW was in year 2 behind an inconsistent line and practicing against the best defense daily! Not to mention he faces the best defenses in the NFL.

 

[formido]

The way Wilson struggles against elite defensive lines is way better than the way Luck struggles. Wilson is a better decision maker because he has a better model of what wins football games. A championship caliber QB wants to avoid mistakes more than make plays. It sounds boring, but it is what it is. When Luck faced Arizona, his poor decision making left Indy with no hope. Unlike Luck, Wilson always gives his team a chance, going back deep into college:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/co ... ory/24239/

 

[brimsalabim]

The oakland game was nowhere near as close as the score shows, they were up 14-0 at the beginning of the second quarter and went into run mode, and Luck still had two TDs. SF and Houston were both total blowouts and there was no need to throw after a few series.

Again, there's really no way to defend only being able to put up 100 yards in completitive games, and only being able to put up 108 yards VS the Cardinals in a loss when HFA was on the line.

[/quote]
You could say all same things about Luck you just refuse to acknowledge the fact. On one hand you down grade Russell for benefiting from the run game then you turn around and absolve Luck of a similar performance because the colts were in run mode? Also when comparing the cards games remember Russ faced that D twice. If we compare the two losses both QB's threw for about 4 yards per attempt and both lost. Luck did throw for slightly more yardage but had substantially more attempts.

 

[formido]

Here's a fun thought experiment: If Wilson's and Luck's teams were swapped, and they had identical stats and won/loss records, how often would you hear someone say, "Wilson is obviously better than Luck, you guys are just homers for not taking into account how much more is asked of Wilson"? My guess is that the percentage would be so low as to be indistinguishable from zero.

 

[Sarlacc83]

People are right. Luck does shoulder more responsibility than Wilson.

He throws big time interceptions where Wilson throws Kearse into a game-winning TD pass. Wilson's stats are better, and he's more clutch. That's why Wilson has a Super Bowl ring and Luck is 1-2 in the playoffs (against an incredibly weak AFC nonetheless). People who want Luck on this board are Cosells, and they should be absolutely embarrassed at their inability to change mindsets.

 

[sc85sis]

Both guys are smart. Both can make all the throws. Both guys can use their legs when a play breaks down. Both have had multiple come-from-behind wins. Both came into the NFL having experience in a pro style of play. Both are excellent leaders of their team. Both are good overall athletes.

Luck played in a bigger program for his entire college career and thus got more buzz. Russell played at WI only one year, before which most people had never heard of him. Luck has prototypical size for a QB. Russell doesn't. Those are the primary differences I see. Yes, Russell is on a better team overall, but he's also more constrained by the style of offense Seattle uses.

Honestly, I think both guys are likely to have great careers, and I fail to see why either should be denigrated in order to prop up the other. The media like to create narratives that get attention, even when said narrative may be wrong. I love Russ as our QB. I wouldn't exactly have been heartbroken to have gotten Luck either. It's all good.

 

[v1rotv2]

RW carried the team on his shoulders the last half of the Texans game. When the rest of the team was struggling he made the team win.

Also these same people that won't give credit to RW because he plays on a better team are the same people that say we have inferior WRs. So which is it? It seems so odd that this average qb and these inferior WRs can win a Super Bowl over the best offense in NFL history.

This crap has gone past comical into sad.

 

[pocketprotector]

Honestly, I think both guys are likely to have great careers, and I fail to see why either should be denigrated in order to prop up the other.

When Luck finishes in the top half of the league in passer rating or makes it through a playoff game without throwing an interception, call me. Until then, if it quacks and waddles I will continue to call it a duck.

 

[Laloosh]

I'll sooner pee on an electric fence than get into a Luck vs Wilson debate again this off-season. SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!

 

[davidonmi]

Ditto, I was just shocked to bear "barely above average from NFL coaches"

 

[salamander]

I think Wilson's best assets are much harder to quantify and understand; leadership, preparedness, not making mistakes, making the big plays at the important part of the game, consistency. These traits may not be obvious when watching one game, but become more apparent and impressive the more you watch over time. Luck's skills are more obvious; you can watch one game and see his arm strength, size, speed, etc which can wow you, but he makes mistakes that Wilson just doesn't make.

 

[chris98251]

As long as he plays Wilson will have his detractors, whether it's he is too short, or he just has to manage a game and doesn't have to make plays because of his defense, or the running game takes all the pressure off him or some other reason.

Look at it this way, Wilson has a Super Bowl ring, how many of those coaches that are saying he is just a slightly above average NFL QB have one.

Wilson will be starting his third year, he is still improving, he has a whole new list of things to have a chip on his shoulder about now. Good for us, chip on his shoulder Russell is bad news for the rest of the league. All he has to do is keep doing what he does and the results speak for themselves. Lets hope for a long career for Wilson and listen to all these guys then. The results will stand on their own.

Another thing, if these coaches are all in the AFC then I can't wait for us to get back to the Super Bowl.

 

[Sports Hernia]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10495763&ex_cid=espnapi_public

"Slightly above average QB"
He says they laugh when you mention him in the same sentence as Andrew Luck.
Coaches refuse to change, they continue to think in their myopic mindset.
Now I don't know if Wilson is ahead of Luck, but I feel it's at least close, I believe it's about even personally.

This is again coming from all the coaches who didn't win the Lombardi this year

Good let them keep thinking that way as Russ is hoisting the Lombardi every year! If they STILL think this way then they'll fail at in game adjustments. Wonderful!

 

[SalishHawkFan]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10495763&ex_cid=espnapi_public
Now I don't know if Wilson is ahead of Luck, but I feel it's at least close, I believe it's about even personally.

The same people who knew all along that we'd win the Super Bowl have no doubts who is the better QB:

Listen, the reality is this: Andrew Luck is good. He may go on to be very good. He may in fact live up to the hype of a No. 1 overall pick, win Super Bowls, and reach the Hall of Fame.

We hope he does. We wish the best for him. He seems like a fine, upstanding young man. We think he’ll do.

But right now, here today, Luck is only the third best rookie quarterback in football, probably behind Robert Griffin III still and certainly 100 percent behind Russell Wilson.

 

[CPHawk]

At the end of the day numbers don't matter, Qb are judged on post season success. My money is on Wilson winning more rings and post season games. Tom Brady didn't have a season over 4000 yds until his 6 season in the NFL, and didn't throw for over 28 tds until his 8th season.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

'

Would anyone give a shit about Luck if he was a 3rd round pick. Foles put up a great season as a 3rd rounder and I almost gurantee people talk about Luck more than Foles.

I think Luck gets the benefit of the doubt and the hype SOLELY based on being the first pick not his actual play on the field.

What more does Wilson have to do to prove himself, it is getting out of control. The guy has the 2nd? most TDs of ALL TIME his first 2 seasons he is obviously not being carried and just along for the ride. He along with Rodgers are the 2 QBs I have watched that rarely ever make the wrong throw or decision. I can only think of a handful of INTs that were actually Wilsons fault.

 

[seedhawk]

Actually, Cosell is probably correct in rating Wilson "slightly above average". However, Wilson gets this rating simply because he is NOT asked or tasked with exceeding that level, AT THIS TIME. Wait it out about 4 more years, let Lynch retire, watch our teams dynamic change,, and THEN rate Wilson.