O-Line Woes

[OkieHawk]

In reference to the amount of stupid penalties only, last season we had 152 which led the league, and still won the Superb Owl. This year we currently have 32, while the Stealers have a league high 52. While it sucks, we can't say that they are totally sabotaging us. The team does need to work on tightening things up, but it doesn't inhibit us from re-Pete-ing.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Okung is garbage. That guy has regressed and if he's our best option for left tackle then we are doomed to our qb taking unnecessary hits.

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

Pass Pro seems to be the biggest issue at the moment. The big unknown here is just how much the injuries are affecting the offensive linemen. Unger and Okung are both banged up and their play is showing it IMO. The Carpenter penalty was BS or I suspect he would have had a fairly decent night. Sweezy and Britt may not have been mega last night but at least they were keeping their noses clean and not drawing penalties. Miller's absence no doubt compounded the issues on the right side in particular. I'm off the ledge now.

 

[ivotuk]

Unger was bad last year, especially in the Super Bowl. When you rewatch it, you'll see him completely whiff on "Pot Roast" He's part of the reason Marshawn couldn't get any yards last February 2nd.

Then you look at Washington, backup players all over the defense and we couldn't keep Russell clean? Couldn't stop the penalties?

Carpenter made some idiot plays, Okung, as much as I love him, is a shell of his former self, and Unger, I wonder if he has had too many concussions that he hasn't reported? I can't see any other reason for his bonehead plays.

I think the head bob penalty was BS, but still, Max has not been playing up to even average Center level. I hope we go Offensive line in the 1st and 2nd round and don't let Cable make the picks.

Our "Franchise QB" is too damn important to risk his career on a piss poor offensive line play! There is no one like Russell Wilson, and there will never be again, please Pete! Let's protect him!

Sign some good free agents, draft, anything! Protect our QB!

And the one thing that really frustrates me, teams with 3 or 4 backups on the offensive line, play BETTER than our offensive line WHY?

 

[Recon_Hawk]

How much of the perceived O-line struggle is on Wilson?

Last night's performance was bad for the O-line, all well said in the OP, but a couple of those pressures/sacks was on Russell. He said as much in his press conference after the game.

He's not a tall, statue QB who throws to a receiver at the last second with the pocket collapsing on him. By design and style of play, at the first sign of pressure Wilson is flushing out of the pocket to try and create a "2nd attempt" of the play. With that comes huge throws/run and avoiding bad throws, but it also results in missed receivers and delayed blitzes that catch Wilson trying to play Houdini instead of operating out of the pocket a tad bit longer.

O-line deserves the majority of blame, but there's plenty to go around. That goes for the play calling and receivers not getting open as well.

 

[Wagon12]

Oline play was really bad this game.........things have got to change somehow, unfortunately I don't see them getting much better.

Unfortunately, they NEED to get better... What the hell happened? I mean, they just need to be average! Seriously though, I am fearing for RW if this doesn't get cleaned up... The Redskins are categorically BAD on defense and the OL struggled badly...

 

[Recon_Hawk]

To add to my post up above, here is an example of what I was talking about.

Result of the play was a scramble of 16 yards.




The pocket is perfectly set up. The outside Defensive ends are contained and Seattle has three interior linemen on two defensive tackles. Washington's DBs make a mistake in coverage, leaving Kearse wide open for long TD pass.

To a few watching the game, they might have chalked this up as another instance of the O-line giving up pressure, forcing Wilson to scramble when actually the opposite is happening.

Now, I'm not trying to point out Wilson's style of play as a weakness. Like I said above, Wilson creates way more positive plays than negatives, but on occasion Wilson's tenancy to flush out of the pocket early makes the O-line play look worst then a QB and offense that operates mostly from inside the pocket.

 

[DavidSeven]

How much of the perceived O-line struggle is on Wilson?

Wilson is a unique QB. There are certain throws that he won't make -- i.e. you likely won't see him step up in a collapsing pocket and hit a receiver in the middle of the field. We've seen enough of him now to know that's just sort of who he is. He makes unbelievable things happen by moving to throwing lanes and scrambling, but this often requires the O-line to block for longer.

No, I wouldn't say we have an elite pass-blocking line -- potentially, that may never happen under Carroll/Cable. However, I would definitely say Wilson's unique qualities heighten the perception of a poor O-line. His style of play doesn't make it easy for them.

 

[northseahawk]

The Redskins O-line was 10x worst than ours, but somehow a backup qb manages to get long shots and gets almost 300 yard passing on us, but RW can't?? I would say that our inconsistent Offense has a lot to do with RW panicking earlier than he should, holding on to the ball and being ultra ultra scared to throw a ball to a receiver that has a guy around him even if he is 5 yards away. He only will thrown it if the guy is wide wide open. This is an area where he could drastically improve especially with Lynch not being in our future plans. With no running game and no shutdown defense, his ultra conservative play will not get us many wins in the future.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

How much of the perceived O-line struggle is on Wilson?

Wilson is a unique QB. There are certain throws that he won't make -- i.e. you likely won't see him step up in a collapsing pocket and hit a receiver in the middle of the field. We've seen enough of him now to know that's just sort of who he is. He makes unbelievable things happen by moving to throwing lanes and scrambling, but this often requires the O-line to block for longer.

No, I wouldn't say we have an elite pass-blocking line -- potentially, that may never happen under Carroll/Cable. However, I would definitely say Wilson's unique qualities heighten the perception of a poor O-line. His style of play doesn't make it easy for them.

Thank you. You made my point better than I could. A new offensive line coach or more draft picks may not be the easy fix some are suggesting.

 

[nsport]

Great discussion!

One last point I'd add is I find it extremely frustrating that each guy (maybe except for Britt who we should expect to struggle and grow throughout the year) as shown brilliance at one point in time... the key attributes that seem to be missing are:

a) consistency
b) unity across the line

If we can track forward on these two variables instead of all the ups and downs, I think we can see some brighter days ahead.

 

[Happypuppy]

Okung is garbage. That guy has regressed and if he's our best option for left tackle then we are doomed to our qb taking unnecessary hits.

I could not agree more. He has zero lateral movement and can get bull rushed. He is offsides so much as he is doing anything he can not a step on the pass rusher.

 

[Happypuppy]

quote from northseahawk " The Redskins O-line was 10x worst than ours, but somehow a backup qb manages to get long shots and gets almost 300 yard passing on "

We are too unbalanced IMO to run first to be great pass blockers. During the days of the great 49er teams I attended a lunch with the 49er coaches in San Jose.

I sat across from the offensive line coach for the team and I asked him about evaluation of lineman. The 49ers at the time had one of the lightest lines and washington ( the hogs ) had the largest.

He said he looked first for "quick feet " due TO there pass first offense. He said that to find a big fast offensive lineman was as hard to find as a all pro QB.

I believe we have a team of plodders.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

The Redskins O-line was 10x worst than ours, but somehow a backup qb manages to get long shots and gets almost 300 yard passing on us, but RW can't?? I would say that our inconsistent Offense has a lot to do with RW panicking earlier than he should, holding on to the ball and being ultra ultra scared to throw a ball to a receiver that has a guy around him even if he is 5 yards away. He only will thrown it if the guy is wide wide open. This is an area where he could drastically improve especially with Lynch not being in our future plans. With no running game and no shutdown defense, his ultra conservative play will not get us many wins in the future.

You won't consistently see that when the head coach constantly preaches it's 'all about the ball,' but to say all of his passes have been to 'wide, wide open' receivers is utterly ridiculous. ...also, it's a major halucination to say he's 'panics' when he runs. That portion of your post is completely idiotic.

 

[chiltech500]

I think it's time to start thinking about moving on from Okung. He can't stay healthy, he makes lots of dumb penalties, and appears to be regressing each season. At the very least we should be looking for a potential replacement after his contract expires in 2015.

I so agree here! I watched as he missed blocks, caused penalties and just screwed us up on several major occasions.

 

[chiltech500]

The Redskins O-line was 10x worst than ours, but somehow a backup qb manages to get long shots and gets almost 300 yard passing on us, but RW can't?? I would say that our inconsistent Offense has a lot to do with RW panicking earlier than he should, holding on to the ball and being ultra ultra scared to throw a ball to a receiver that has a guy around him even if he is 5 yards away. He only will thrown it if the guy is wide wide open. This is an area where he could drastically improve especially with Lynch not being in our future plans. With no running game and no shutdown defense, his ultra conservative play will not get us many wins in the future.

You won't consistently see that when the head coach constantly preaches it's 'all about the ball,' but to say all of his passes have been to 'wide, wide open' receivers is utterly ridiculous. ...also, it's a major halucination to say he's 'panics' when he runs. That portion of your post is completely idiotic.

The Redskins O-line was 10x worst than ours

I want what you are smoking bro. They did a half decent job with our pass rush, I would trade in a heartbeat.

 

[chiltech500]

To add to my post up above, here is an example of what I was talking about.

Result of the play was a scramble of 16 yards.




The pocket is perfectly set up. The outside Defensive ends are contained and Seattle has three interior linemen on two defensive tackles. Washington's DBs make a mistake in coverage, leaving Kearse wide open for long TD pass.

To a few watching the game, they might have chalked this up as another instance of the O-line giving up pressure, forcing Wilson to scramble when actually the opposite is happening.

Now, I'm not trying to point out Wilson's style of play as a weakness. Like I said above, Wilson creates way more positive plays than negatives, but on occasion Wilson's tenancy to flush out of the pocket early makes the O-line play look worst then a QB and offense that operates mostly from inside the pocket.

Yes this is quite valid points also. I recall on several plays saying Russ why did you take off there???

 

[brimsalabim]

Sure...your point is valid on that particular play. We also saw scrambles that were created when Willson missed or failed to chip the DE on his side and Britt wiffed all together. On the other side it's pretty easy to see that Okung cannot move laterally with enough quickness to contain a speed rusher on the outside. Meanwhile Unger is struggling physically to contain the middle. All of this leads to a QB that does not and can not trust his protection.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

One of these days, we'll learn to judge an offensive lineman on something besides how many penalties he incurs in a game.

 

[AgentDib]

I don't see how RW's height or playing ability has very much to do with all of the false starts and holding. It would be different if our line was playing clean but giving up artificial pressure statistics, but that just isn't the issue. Look at our third quarter drives, each of which started in very good field position and then was killed by penalties.

It's a good thing that the measurement in the NFL is W/L, not offensive line play.

What is your point? Let's say we had Alex Henery miss 4 field goals for us instead of the Lions. Would you argue that we should hang onto him because what matters is W/L and not field goal accuracy? The job of the offensive line is to run block and pass block and so those are precisely the criteria they should be evaluated on.