Pete has to go

[NJlargent]

It is amazing how dismissive people are of our talent level when evaluating the coaches. The relevant question is whether 10 wins with this talent level is impressive.

It's amazing how Seahawk fans over-rate the talent on their team.

Sure, in March it looked great but this is November and our roster looks like this:
1) A defensive backfield consisting of a rookie, a almost traded underperforming vet, a cast-off from Miami, A Cast off from NE, A decent backup safety and an injured all-pro
2) A solid defensive line rotation
3) A couple stud LB'ers
4) A crap offensive line with a scheme everyone has figured out
5) A RB crew minus its 2 best players in Carson and Procise
6) A solid but undersized receiving crew
7) A TE that is his own worst enemy at times
8) A short QB that bails from the pocket too much, but is still the only reason we win half the time

The Rams roster is better than ours. The Eagles roster is better than ours. The Falcons roster is better than ours.

We've lost Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, Carson, Procise, MC Dowell for the season. That's a solid group of starters gone. Arizona lost David Johnson and fell apart.

We won a SB because we were healthier than the other team and lost a couple SB's because we weren't. Ignoring injuries is foolish because its quite apparent to anyone that watched football that they are likely the biggest factor in any winning and losing season. That and QB play.

The roster with all our injuries is pretty league average.

I agree that our roster is average. My point is that I look at a roster today that is about a 9-10 win roster. I look at where the team is now and it appears we are heading towards 9-10 wins. So if we are an "average"roster and we win 9-10 games, then I am not sure that makes Carroll a great coach. Likewise, the 2013 roster was a 13 win roster and SB material. I am not so sure Carroll is only one of a few who would have been able to win a ring with that roster, and quite frankly, I think Holmgren and Knox would have won with that roster as well.

My issue is that over the past few seasons we have regressed. Each year the team gets weaker and we continue to try the same game approach with the 9-10 win roster that we did with a 13 win roster. That is not great coaching. But we want to continuously point to 2013 and turn a blind eye to the regression, and I think a truly great coach would have made some adjustments over the past few years to try and halt the regression. We certainly had enough talent to afford ourselves a couple of years of adjustments without having to regress towards a complete and eventual rebuild.

I don't want to revert to the 90s or the 09 squad. But I will gladly take a few years of 5-11 if it means we can be serious contenders again in 5 years. Otherwise, we will continue the regression and end up at 5-11 anyways. And the current mentality of let's just try and get into the playoffs and anything can happen is exactly the same mentality we had in the 90s.

If you want to make the argument that Carroll is a great coach because he built that roster, then that is a good argument. However, the past few drafts have been less than stellar and he needs to go back and tap into his magic and rebuild this average roster. I just do not know that he can or has he same personnel to support him.

 

[hawknation2017]

Carroll has won playoff games EVERY year, including this franchise's only Super Bowl championship.

We have been in the hunt for the Super Bowl each of the last five seasons and counting.

He set NFL records for most consecutive games without losing by more than 7 points and by 10 points.

In the last 98 games, only FOUR times have the Seahawks lost by more than a TD. That is totally unprecedented in NFL history. In the last 99 games, the Seahawks have only lost ONCE by more than 10 points (last year's GB game without Earl Thomas and with a beat up Russell Wilson). 1 in 99.

You are never going to win every game; that is a reality. The goal is to be as competitive as possible to give ourselves the best opportunity to compete for the chance at another Super Bowl. The Patriots under Belichick went nine years between Super Bowl championships. We have gone just three and a half years, and some idiots now want Carroll gone.

When will this thread die?

 

[oldhawkfan]

It is amazing how dismissive people are of our talent level when evaluating the coaches. The relevant question is whether 10 wins with this talent level is impressive.

It's amazing how Seahawk fans over-rate the talent on their team.

Sure, in March it looked great but this is November and our roster looks like this:
1) A defensive backfield consisting of a rookie, a almost traded underperforming vet, a cast-off from Miami, A Cast off from NE, A decent backup safety and an injured all-pro
2) A solid defensive line rotation
3) A couple stud LB'ers
4) A crap offensive line with a scheme everyone has figured out
5) A RB crew minus its 2 best players in Carson and Procise
6) A solid but undersized receiving crew
7) A TE that is his own worst enemy at times
8) A short QB that bails from the pocket too much, but is still the only reason we win half the time

The Rams roster is better than ours. The Eagles roster is better than ours. The Falcons roster is better than ours.

We've lost Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, Carson, Procise, MC Dowell for the season. That's a solid group of starters gone. Arizona lost David Johnson and fell apart.

We won a SB because we were healthier than the other team and lost a couple SB's because we weren't. Ignoring injuries is foolish because its quite apparent to anyone that watched football that they are likely the biggest factor in any winning and losing season. That and QB play.

The roster with all our injuries is pretty league average.

I agree that our roster is average. My point is that I look at a roster today that is about a 9-10 win roster. I look at where the team is now and it appears we are heading towards 9-10 wins. So if we are an "average"roster and we win 9-10 games, then I am not sure that makes Carroll a great coach. Likewise, the 2013 roster was a 13 win roster and SB material. I am not so sure Carroll is only one of a few who would have been able to win a ring with that roster, and quite frankly, I think Holmgren and Knox would have won with that roster as well.

My issue is that over the past few seasons we have regressed. Each year the team gets weaker and we continue to try the same game approach with the 9-10 win roster that we did with a 13 win roster. That is not great coaching. But we want to continuously point to 2013 and turn a blind eye to the regression, and I think a truly great coach would have made some adjustments over the past few years to try and halt the regression. We certainly had enough talent to afford ourselves a couple of years of adjustments without having to regress towards a complete and eventual rebuild.

I don't want to revert to the 90s or the 09 squad. But I will gladly take a few years of 5-11 if it means we can be serious contenders again in 5 years. Otherwise, we will continue the regression and end up at 5-11 anyways. And the current mentality of let's just try and get into the playoffs and anything can happen is exactly the same mentality we had in the 90s.

If you want to make the argument that Carroll is a great coach because he built that roster, then that is a good argument. However, the past few drafts have been less than stellar and he needs to go back and tap into his magic and rebuild this average roster. I just do not know that he can or has he same personnel to support him.

Going 5-11 for a few years is not a guarantee of future success! I really wish people would stop this way of thinking!!! This team spent the first 38 years of existence as merely mediocre with a few winning seasons sprinkled in. We cannot simply unplug and reboot to a dominant team. Paul Allen stated clearly when he bought this team that he wanted a consistent winner. We have that. By the logic of tanking seasons for future success, then Cleveland should have many undefeated seasons in the near future.

 

[oldhawkfan]

It is amazing how dismissive people are of our talent level when evaluating the coaches. The relevant question is whether 10 wins with this talent level is impressive.

It's amazing how Seahawk fans over-rate the talent on their team.

Sure, in March it looked great but this is November and our roster looks like this:
1) A defensive backfield consisting of a rookie, a almost traded underperforming vet, a cast-off from Miami, A Cast off from NE, A decent backup safety and an injured all-pro
2) A solid defensive line rotation
3) A couple stud LB'ers
4) A crap offensive line with a scheme everyone has figured out
5) A RB crew minus its 2 best players in Carson and Procise
6) A solid but undersized receiving crew
7) A TE that is his own worst enemy at times
8) A short QB that bails from the pocket too much, but is still the only reason we win half the time

The Rams roster is better than ours. The Eagles roster is better than ours. The Falcons roster is better than ours.

We've lost Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, Carson, Procise, MC Dowell for the season. That's a solid group of starters gone. Arizona lost David Johnson and fell apart.

We won a SB because we were healthier than the other team and lost a couple SB's because we weren't. Ignoring injuries is foolish because its quite apparent to anyone that watched football that they are likely the biggest factor in any winning and losing season. That and QB play.

The roster with all our injuries is pretty league average.

I agree that our roster is average. My point is that I look at a roster today that is about a 9-10 win roster. I look at where the team is now and it appears we are heading towards 9-10 wins. So if we are an "average"roster and we win 9-10 games, then I am not sure that makes Carroll a great coach. Likewise, the 2013 roster was a 13 win roster and SB material. I am not so sure Carroll is only one of a few who would have been able to win a ring with that roster, and quite frankly, I think Holmgren and Knox would have won with that roster as well.

My issue is that over the past few seasons we have regressed. Each year the team gets weaker and we continue to try the same game approach with the 9-10 win roster that we did with a 13 win roster. That is not great coaching. But we want to continuously point to 2013 and turn a blind eye to the regression, and I think a truly great coach would have made some adjustments over the past few years to try and halt the regression. We certainly had enough talent to afford ourselves a couple of years of adjustments without having to regress towards a complete and eventual rebuild.

I don't want to revert to the 90s or the 09 squad. But I will gladly take a few years of 5-11 if it means we can be serious contenders again in 5 years. Otherwise, we will continue the regression and end up at 5-11 anyways. And the current mentality of let's just try and get into the playoffs and anything can happen is exactly the same mentality we had in the 90s.

If you want to make the argument that Carroll is a great coach because he built that roster, then that is a good argument. However, the past few drafts have been less than stellar and he needs to go back and tap into his magic and rebuild this average roster. I just do not know that he can or has he same personnel to support him.

Going 5-11 for a few years is not a guarantee of future success! I really wish people would stop this way of thinking!!! This team spent the first 38 years of existence as merely mediocre with a few winning seasons sprinkled in. We cannot simply unplug and reboot to a dominant team. Paul Allen stated clearly when he bought this team that he wanted a consistent winner. We have that. By the logic of tanking seasons for future success, then Cleveland should have many undefeated seasons in the near future.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Going 5-11 for a few years is not a guarantee of future success! I really wish people would stop this way of thinking!!! This team spent the first 38 years of existence as merely mediocre with a few winning seasons sprinkled in. We cannot simply unplug and reboot to a dominant team. Paul Allen stated clearly when he bought this team that he wanted a consistent winner. We have that. By the logic of tanking seasons for future success, then Cleveland should have many undefeated seasons in the near future.

Absolutely true, the league is littered with perennial losers that go under .500 for a decade, and never get better.

Having said that, if we don't make the playoffs and Pete doesn't make some changes to his staff and tweak his schemes, then I fear this cycle of underachieving due to injuries to an old roster and dysfunctional schemes will continue.

 

[Seanhawk]

Cards on the table guys. Let's name some names. Who should take over? I need a laugh.

I want this guy.

[youtube]vqCADoEzr1E[/youtube]

 

[HAWKAMANIA]

Is this thread real life?

 

[chris98251]

How about this guy first.

and this guy OC.

 

[hawknation2017]

Is this thread real life?

Unfortunately. ukeface:

 

[Maulbert]

 

[jammerhawk]

Really??? Pete needs to go, whatever?

I guess b/c the team actually lost consecutive home games that the lynch mob is justified. Two starting Pro Bowl DBs out for the year, and a starting pro Bowl DE, zero running game, five or now six different OLine combinations that reliably look like matadors, the second most injuries of any team in the league, but Pete isn’t going anything? The very fact that the team is still competing means his team is playing for him and although the results aren’t 43-8 every game the the team is 7-4 and has won all three away divisional games and 4 of 6 to date. If they win this weekend and continue to stay close to LA until their meeting in December and win then the Division is won again notwithstanding adversity.

Maybe some of you guys should try to recall how ugly things were in the nineties, at the end of a To me the team had done pretty darn well under Pete’s leadership and still is despite having a ridiculously awful OLine and little effective running game for 2 seasons now. Pete has to go? Really? I ask the same question many others have here “who replaces him?”. Thankfully Paul Allen has a longer view than some of you closet owners here. I greatly doubt he’s close to thinking Pete needs to be replaced. Pete will leave on his terms exactly when he’s ready to go. A reasonable successor, not Cable or Bevell, will be obvious or announced by JS or even Pete.

I repeat it’s not on Pete, but Cable and he needs to go. I’d
Not be disappointed to see Bevell gone too.

 

[907Hawk]

In 41 years of Seahawk football this team has 10 seasons with at least 10 wins, Pete Carroll can claim 5 of those. This football team has plenty of flaws, as pointed out ad nauseam on dot net, but the Head Coach is not one of them, imho.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete was gifted with one of the best couple of years of drafting that led to several HOFs in the mix.

Unfortunately, that guy is no longer part of the team. The same guy that brought a bunch of fantastic players to SF that ended up getting THEM to the SuperBowl.

Plenty of coaches could have made and won a SB with that roster. But Carroll is a winning coach and his methods/philosophy worked for this team - for a while.

Unfortunately, this team is now finding that same collection of methods/philosophies not only don't work, they work against the success of this team.

JS isn't going to turn this team around. We pretty much have seen that we now have very average drafts and tremendously bad FA decisions. Carroll isn't because his misplaced loyalties and nepotism hurt us, his unwillingness to scheme to opponents hurt us and his bizarre focus on shutting down the run, in a league that is slanting every rule in favor of the QB, makes no sense.

(As an example, we cannot run the ball at all but we seem to still be able to win games. Stopping the run hardly matters if you can barely stop the opposing QB)

It won't matter.

The problem is a FO that has been milking great drafts for years from someone else, that covered up some fairly major flaws in the FO decision making process. Now without those offsets, there is not much reason to expect much.

There are a lot worse guys than Carroll we could get stuck with. But it is clear that Carroll isn't taking this team anywhere but slowly to worse and worse records. This is a team that hasn't been great in years, but is edging closer to average each year.

 

[semiahmoo]

Carroll has won playoff games EVERY year, including this franchise's only Super Bowl championship.

We have been in the hunt for the Super Bowl each of the last five seasons and counting.

He set NFL records for most consecutive games without losing by more than 7 points and by 10 points.

In the last 98 games, only FOUR times have the Seahawks lost by more than a TD. That is totally unprecedented in NFL history. In the last 99 games, the Seahawks have only lost ONCE by more than 10 points (last year's GB game without Earl Thomas and with a beat up Russell Wilson). 1 in 99.

You are never going to win every game; that is a reality. The goal is to be as competitive as possible to give ourselves the best opportunity to compete for the chance at another Super Bowl. The Patriots under Belichick went nine years between Super Bowl championships. We have gone just three and a half years, and some idiots now want Carroll gone.

When will this thread die?

We haven't been in the hunt for a SB for a few seasons. I said last year we were playoff pretenders and we were.

And this season because of injury and the fact Tom Cable is STILL coaching the O-Line, we're even worse.

I actually thing Bevell has shown a little growth this season but Cable seems to be getting worse and worse...

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Pete was gifted with one of the best couple of years of drafting that led to several HOFs in the mix.

Unfortunately, that guy is no longer part of the team. The same guy that brought a bunch of fantastic players to SF that ended up getting THEM to the SuperBowl.

Plenty of coaches could have made and won a SB with that roster. But Carroll is a winning coach and his methods/philosophy worked for this team - for a while.

Unfortunately, this team is now finding that same collection of methods/philosophies not only don't work, they work against the success of this team.

JS isn't going to turn this team around. We pretty much have seen that we now have very average drafts and tremendously bad FA decisions. Carroll isn't because his misplaced loyalties and nepotism hurt us, his unwillingness to scheme to opponents hurt us and his bizarre focus on shutting down the run, in a league that is slanting every rule in favor of the QB, makes no sense.

(As an example, we cannot run the ball at all but we seem to still be able to win games. Stopping the run hardly matters if you can barely stop the opposing QB)

It won't matter.

The problem is a FO that has been milking great drafts for years from someone else, that covered up some fairly major flaws in the FO decision making process. Now without those offsets, there is not much reason to expect much.

There are a lot worse guys than Carroll we could get stuck with. But it is clear that Carroll isn't taking this team anywhere but slowly to worse and worse records. This is a team that hasn't been great in years, but is edging closer to average each year.

Great post!

I agree!

I think a lot of fans are unwillingly to let go the past and believes since Pete did it once he can do it again!

Here's the thing, the Seahawks won the Super Bowl on a 3rd round rookie quarterback contract, a young hungry defense in their prime and of course a once in a decade HOF running back.

This current Seahawks team no longer has any of those three.

After this season, Lynch has been gone for two years and the front office has not found a capable successor. The elite defense is former shell of itself and Wilson commands a big check.

The team is essentially operating on the last few year(s) of former pro bowl and all pro players that are no longer who they were but now get paid a lot more.

And to top it off, most teams know this and have game planned successfully to counter any of the Seahawks former strengths.

It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

You can call me a pessimist but you can't deny this also what you see.

 

[hawknation2017]

In 41 years of Seahawk football this team has 10 seasons with at least 10 wins, Pete Carroll can claim 5 of those. This football team has plenty of flaws, as pointed out ad nauseam on dot net, but the Head Coach is not one of them, imho.

 

[original poster]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

 

[IrishNW]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

 

[Seanhawk]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

While I'm not in favor of Pete not being the head coach, it is very much a possibility that this would improve the team as Cable would be forced to relinquish his duties as OL coach.

 

[semiahmoo]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

Not going to happen, but sure is a chilling thought...