Pete has to go

[Seymour]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

While I'm not in favor of Pete not being the head coach, it is very much a possibility that this would improve the team as Cable would be forced to relinquish his duties as OL coach.

Doubtful and here is why. Now instead of crap for talent in mainly just the oline, we will now be faced with crap for talent at every drafted position.

Paul Allen is not that stupid anyway.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

While I'm not in favor of Pete not being the head coach, it is very much a possibility that this would improve the team as Cable would be forced to relinquish his duties as OL coach.

Cable's play-calling was widely derided in Oakland.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pete was gifted with one of the best couple of years of drafting that led to several HOFs in the mix.

Unfortunately, that guy is no longer part of the team. The same guy that brought a bunch of fantastic players to SF that ended up getting THEM to the SuperBowl.

Plenty of coaches could have made and won a SB with that roster. But Carroll is a winning coach and his methods/philosophy worked for this team - for a while.

Unfortunately, this team is now finding that same collection of methods/philosophies not only don't work, they work against the success of this team.

JS isn't going to turn this team around. We pretty much have seen that we now have very average drafts and tremendously bad FA decisions. Carroll isn't because his misplaced loyalties and nepotism hurt us, his unwillingness to scheme to opponents hurt us and his bizarre focus on shutting down the run, in a league that is slanting every rule in favor of the QB, makes no sense.

(As an example, we cannot run the ball at all but we seem to still be able to win games. Stopping the run hardly matters if you can barely stop the opposing QB)

It won't matter.

The problem is a FO that has been milking great drafts for years from someone else, that covered up some fairly major flaws in the FO decision making process. Now without those offsets, there is not much reason to expect much.

There are a lot worse guys than Carroll we could get stuck with. But it is clear that Carroll isn't taking this team anywhere but slowly to worse and worse records. This is a team that hasn't been great in years, but is edging closer to average each year.

Great post.

 

[xgeoff]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

ukeface:

 

[Seanhawk]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

While I'm not in favor of Pete not being the head coach, it is very much a possibility that this would improve the team as Cable would be forced to relinquish his duties as OL coach.

Doubtful and here is why. Now instead of crap for talent in mainly just the oline, we will now be faced with crap for talent at every drafted position.

Paul Allen is not that stupid anyway.

It's more doubtful that my post was even a little bit serious.

 

[Seymour]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

While I'm not in favor of Pete not being the head coach, it is very much a possibility that this would improve the team as Cable would be forced to relinquish his duties as OL coach.

Doubtful and here is why. Now instead of crap for talent in mainly just the oline, we will now be faced with crap for talent at every drafted position.

Paul Allen is not that stupid anyway.

It's more doubtful that my post was even a little bit serious.

Interesting. Most people don't use terms like "very much a possibility" in sarcasm. This :sarcasm_off: would clear that up.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Can you just imagine if Pete retires after the season and they announce Tom Cable as new HC.

ukeface:

I’m not sure I would renew my season tickets I’d be so disgusted.

 

[ducks41468]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

But they weren't riding on their QB success a couple years ago when their teams were underachieving.

That's Irish's point, sometimes under a coach's tenure his team dips and underachieves. Doesn't mean you fire him.

IMO Pete's earned the benefit of the doubt to this point. He's earned a little slack to see if he, John and his staff can return this team to the SB.

 

[Seymour]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

But they weren't riding on their QB success a couple years ago when their teams were underachieving.

That's Irish's point, sometimes under a coach's tenure his team dips and underachieves. Doesn't mean you fire him.

IMO Pete's earned the benefit of the doubt to this point. He's earned a little slack to see if he, John and his staff can return this team to the SB.

That "little bit of slack" started on Feb 1 2015 as far as I'm concerned. By now, there is so much slack in the rope it's gunna rip someones head off when full tension hits.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

But they weren't riding on their QB success a couple years ago when their teams were underachieving.

That's Irish's point, sometimes under a coach's tenure his team dips and underachieves. Doesn't mean you fire him.

IMO Pete's earned the benefit of the doubt to this point. He's earned a little slack to see if he, John and his staff can return this team to the SB.

That "little bit of slack" started on Feb 1 2015 as far as I'm concerned. By now, there is so much slack in the rope it's gunna rip someones head off when full tension hits.

So what's your plan Seymour?

Is a new coach with an entire new staff a guarantee of anything? What about Schneider? You think he's going to stay if Pete gets fired? He's one of the top 2-3 GM's in all of football? You replacing him too?

With who? Please, enlighten us with your organizational rebuilding plan for a team that's been to two SB's and never missed the playoffs in Pete and John's entire tenure.

 

[Seymour]

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

But they weren't riding on their QB success a couple years ago when their teams were underachieving.

That's Irish's point, sometimes under a coach's tenure his team dips and underachieves. Doesn't mean you fire him.

IMO Pete's earned the benefit of the doubt to this point. He's earned a little slack to see if he, John and his staff can return this team to the SB.

That "little bit of slack" started on Feb 1 2015 as far as I'm concerned. By now, there is so much slack in the rope it's gunna rip someones head off when full tension hits.

So what's your plan Seymour?

Is a new coach with an entire new staff a guarantee of anything? What about Schneider? You think he's going to stay if Pete gets fired? He's one of the top 2-3 GM's in all of football? You replacing him too?

With who? Please, enlighten us with your organizational rebuilding plan for a team that's been to two SB's and never missed the playoffs in Pete and John's entire tenure.

I don't have "a plan". That is above my pay grade. That said, I'd be quite pleased to keep Pete and have him take care of the business he needs to to get this team to it's potential which means FIRE Cable 1st and getting an "average oline", and if that doesn't do it then Bevell next.

 

[adeltaY]

Wasn't Pete heavily involved in those drafts where we picked Sherman, Kam, and KJ in the 5th, Maxi in the 6th, Russ in the 3rd, etc.? He's also regarded as a DB wizard and that aspect of the defense is pretty much his baby. Regardless of scouting, taking 5th round picks and turning them into elite players is very much due to coaching prowess.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There's a reason this team got good so quickly with Pete and company. Draft picks and seeing talent, and making that talent play to it's highest potential etc. is a huge reason for it. He gets enough crap about bad draft picks, but he has had some incredible draft choices as well. So, which is it?? He makes a great pick, and it's luck? Or, he makes a pick that doesn't work out, and he sucks?

 

[ducks41468]

the saints should have fired Sean Payton and the steelers should have fired Mike Tomlin...oh wait maybe not

Both of these teams are also still riding on the success of their franchise QB's. Point being, how much of Carroll's success is due to Russ and the 2010-2012 drafts, and how much of it is Carroll's coaching? Pretty much all great coaches have that reputation because their tenure coincides with that of a franchise QB that makes them look better.

But they weren't riding on their QB success a couple years ago when their teams were underachieving.

That's Irish's point, sometimes under a coach's tenure his team dips and underachieves. Doesn't mean you fire him.

IMO Pete's earned the benefit of the doubt to this point. He's earned a little slack to see if he, John and his staff can return this team to the SB.

Hopefully we can draft our Kamara or Antonio Brown soon, but the last 4-5 drafts haven't produced anyone nearly on that level. Russ could probably carry this team to 7+ wins a season until he retires but at some point we need to be proactive and the strategy needs to be re-evaluated. We shouldn't have to wait until the team completely falls apart and goes 4-12 like the Colts before we realize something is wrong.

 

[Seymour]

Well, since he hasn't turned a later pick into an elite player since 2012, each year that goes by it looks more and more like luck to me. Prove me wrong Chris Carson....PLEASE!
What is worse is that our early picks are not being hit a very high rate either.
Also, much of our SB roster was bought through the savings of Wilson, Wagner, Sherman all on rookie contracts. We are paying better than 10X that now to keep them, and that limits the "buy a player" market we were in.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Hopefully we can draft our Kamara or Antonio Brown soon, but the last 4-5 drafts haven't produced anyone nearly on that level. Russ could probably carry this team to 7+ wins a season until he retires but at some point we need to be proactive and the strategy needs to be re-evaluated. We shouldn't have to wait until the team completely falls apart and goes 4-12 like the Colts before we realize something is wrong.

We've stayed competitive by using draft capital to trade and acquire FA's, rather than use it to draft unknown college players that may or may not pan out. For the most part.

NE does the same thing, why keep all your picks and try and remain competitive or get better through the draft when you can use those picks to acquire known commodities...........you just have to do it right.

Have we done it right? Idk, that's a good question. But when you're consistently picking at the end of the first round, not sure it's prudent to continue to try and get better through the draft.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

So, being a damn good coach has nothing to do with it? If players are good on the Hawks, it's luck? got it........

 

[ducks41468]

Hopefully we can draft our Kamara or Antonio Brown soon, but the last 4-5 drafts haven't produced anyone nearly on that level. Russ could probably carry this team to 7+ wins a season until he retires but at some point we need to be proactive and the strategy needs to be re-evaluated. We shouldn't have to wait until the team completely falls apart and goes 4-12 like the Colts before we realize something is wrong.

We've stayed competitive by using draft capital to trade and acquire FA's, rather than use it to draft unknown college players that may or may not pan out. For the most part.

NE does the same thing, why keep all your picks and try and remain competitive or get better through the draft when you can use those picks to acquire known commodities...........you just have to do it right.

Have we done it right? Idk, that's a good question. But when you're consistently picking at the end of the first round, not sure it's prudent to continue to try and get better through the draft.

Not picking high in the first round isn't what's setting us back. The only guy on the team that was drafted with a high first was ET. We haven't been hitting on our draft picks as a whole. The only arguably elite player taken in the last 5 drafts is Britt. Richardson has been pretty solid, Lockett/Clark are decent and Reed/Pocic/Naz Jones/Griffin/Carson have shown a bit of promise, but that's really about it.

Even when factoring in the FA/trade acquisitions we're still only adding about 2 solid players a year; the rest have all been either flops or replacement-level players like Joeckel/Jordan/McDougald. That's not enough of a talent influx to balance out injuries/aging/departures. The talent evaluation has been poor and points to the concern that Pete has struggled to find talent the further away he gets from the college game.

 

[USChawk]

There is so much wrong here.

Everyone that is complaining about "just making the playoffs" knows that only one team wins a year right?

Winning the bowl is HARD!!!

We've done it once emphatically and came a yard short from doing it again.

This is emblematic of a societal issue of always wanting everything now now now and never being satisfied.

I'm good with running with the Wilson/Carroll/Schneider combo for however long it runs. Its the best football I've had the privilege to watch from Seattle since the early 80s and 2005.

My advice. Temper your expectations down a notch from super bowl champ every year. In my mind having a winning record and making the playoffs is a helluva year. Winning is hard people, enjoy it while you can or your lives will constantly be chasing your next great success which will leave you an annoying malcontent. There is nothing wrong with success that can break through to great success with the right breaks.

I miss the days of a coach being able to last through peaks and valleys and having a long career in one place.

God forbid this end up like the premier league or other international soccer leagues where teams have a new coach almost every year.

With the players that have gone down this season and the complete lack of a running game having a winning record and making the playoffs this season might just be one of Carroll's greatest coaching seasons.