Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB

[SoulfishHawk]

mic drop

 

[Spin Doctor]

As far as the he was drafted too early crowd, was this for just Penny, or all the rb's taken about that time? Seems once Penny was taken, it started a run.

27 - Penny
31 - Michel
35 - Chubb
38 - Jones
43 - Johnson

....and Guice all the way down at 59

Kinda awesome they got to pick their favorite, their guy before the run was on. Doesn't seem early at all, seems perfect timing if you look at it like that.

The pundits were more of "too soon for Penny", not necessarily the top available RB's (on their boards).

But what the hell do a bunch of east coast talking blowhards know about a RB out of San Diego St vs the 1,000's of man hours we dedicated to vetting him as a great fit four US.

This is exactly why the good teams stay on top, they draft to their strengths and style, and not just "the best available" player according to the draft experts who are wrong 80% of the time.

I think a lot of people are mad that they didn't take an offensive lineman earlier, and I for one am inclined to agree with that group. Our line couldn't open up holes, and got beat at the point of attack consistently. This was a draft that was deep in running back talent -- not so in offensive line. After the top prospects there was a huge drop off in talent. If Pete is serious about establishing a running game -- the only way to do it is address that poor line play.

I think the main selling point for Penny is that he was consistent in college, and was very durable. He is also a good sized back with a deceptively quick second gear. The durability part was probably the biggest sell, considering Carson, Rawls, and especially Procise's ability(or lack thereof)to stay healthy. Penny also had quietly been rising up the big boards pretty quickly, and consistently. At the end of the season people placed him at around the 5th best back. After the combine, and workouts he got quiet a bit off buzz from just about everybody.

I can also understand people's skepticism of the Seahawk's draft process in the last few years. They haven't exactly drafted well, and as a result we've seen a Seahawks in a slow and steady decline. I actually like this draft, but I do have a few reservations about Penny.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think the main selling point for Penny is that he was consistent in college, and was very durable. He is also a good sized back with a deceptively quick second gear. The durability part was probably the biggest sell, considering Carson, Rawls, and especially Procise's ability(or lack thereof)to stay healthy. Penny also had quietly been rising up the big boards pretty quickly, and consistently. At the end of the season people placed him at around the 5th best back. After the combine, and workouts he got quiet a bit off buzz from just about everybody. .

Pretty much exactly what John and Pete said when asked why they picked Penny.

- physical style of running to contact
- durability
- crazy speed for his size
- intangibles

So I get it, but yes I was also in the "let's draft Hernandez and stop this cycle of trying to patch together a line every year" camp.

Time will tell, but I am excited to see Penny run and not have to watch the revolving door of oft injured brittle stable of inconsistent RB's we've had to see the past three years.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Now onto my reservations about Penny. I watched quite a few videos, and games with Penny the last few days. I also took a look at how he fared in the Senior Bowl practices and such. I think he could end up being a good back, but I took note of a few things that were a bit concerning to me.

Lets talk about the good first:

Penny is a patient runner, and he is very good at setting up his blockers. As a runner he is subtle in everything he does. Defenders have a hard time getting a good hold on him at the LOS, he has deceptive speed, and a good second gear ala Shaun Alexander. His cutback looks small and inconsequential looking but it leaves defenders grasping for air. He makes very small body movements that throw defenders off, very good at faking out defenders. His vision is also an asset, he can squeeze through tiny holes, and creases -- becoming almost invisible to defenders. This is his greatest asset as a runner, and it will be why he succeeds at the next level if he does end up successful.

The bad:

At the Senior Bowl, coaches noted that he struggled to pick up the playbook, and even struggled with basic concepts. This concerns me given Christine Michael, and his inability to adapt to the NFL playbook. Coaches also noted that his default move when he was unsure to the playbook was to swing outside. His great vision all of the sudden became questionable in practice when he was trying to juggle the playbook in his head with his play in practice.

His yards after first contact stat is deceptive. Despite Penny's size, he was very easy to take down with basic arm tackles. This is what gives me the most pause. He seemed to have no power, or authority as a runner here. I notice a lot of people touched him at the LOS but his cut and subtle body movements messed with defenders heads. I think that is where the "yards after contact" stat comes from. When defenders were able to square up on him he wasn't particularly hard to bring down one on one.

Not an every down back. He is one of the worst pass blockers I've seen in the collegiate level. Doesn't look like he's worked on it much. I don't want to see him blocking for Russ until the coaching staff is able to sort this out. His route running is also sloppy as hell, though he has VERY good hands for a running back. If he masters route running, and the passing game he could be one of, if not the best receiving backs in the NFL. He catches away from his body, and made some fantastic one handed grabs at San Diego. He at least has better hands than good ol' Kearse.


What to take away from all of this: I think he has a chance to be very good in this league. I was a bit surprised to see how bad he was at breaking away from basic arm tackles. I expected him to look more physical. He is a patient runner that will take what he is given and run with it. He is a bit rough around the edges but he does the basics right. He kind of reminds me of a young, upright Shaun Alexander. His cutback is pretty wicked, just like Alexander's was. I think with a bit of fine tuning he could be a great running back. I think if he lowers his center of gravity while running, and he doesn't skip leg day he could even deal with the his arm tackles. I don't think he is going to bust for sure, but I'm not exactly sure how good he will be exactly. That will all hinge on how well our coaching staff is able to bring him up. He has a good base to build upon. I just hope that he doesn't struggle with the playbook.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As far as the trouble with the playbook criticism, Pete also talked about Penny running a LOT of the same schemes, concepts and plays as we already run.

In fact, SD State is one one of the few west coast colleges that still runs an NFL pro style run offense.

So while I agree that could be a problem, Pete and John obviously did their homework on this criticism and are comfortable with Penny's transition into our offense............as opposed to coming from a typical college spread shotgun offense.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think a lot of people are mad that they didn't take an offensive lineman earlier, and I for one am inclined to agree with that group. Our line couldn't open up holes, and got beat at the point of attack consistently..

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think a lot of people are mad that they didn't take an offensive lineman earlier, and I for one am inclined to agree with that group. Our line couldn't open up holes, and got beat at the point of attack consistently..

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

Apparently that was all Cable's fault. Now that he's gone, it's gonna be nothing but All Pro invites up and down the line.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think a lot of people are mad that they didn't take an offensive lineman earlier, and I for one am inclined to agree with that group. Our line couldn't open up holes, and got beat at the point of attack consistently..

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

the Seahawks also did some really goofy crap with their line picks (thanks Cable). We can't just stop drafting lineman and expect our line to magically get better. They have also passed on some really good lineman in the past via the draft, and came away with questionable picks.

 

[Spin Doctor]

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

Apparently that was all Cable's fault. Now that he's gone, it's gonna be nothing but All Pro invites up and down the line.

Well, not taking random DT's and turning them into lineman will be a good start. Another nice improvement will be using players at their given positions, rather than training each player for every position in the name of "versatility". As a result they are crappy at every position. We're already off to a better start lol

 

[hawknation2018]

The offensive line is still a genuine problem. Brown (getting up there is age), Britt, and three question marks.

Clearly the weakest position group on the roster.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

Apparently that was all Cable's fault. Now that he's gone, it's gonna be nothing but All Pro invites up and down the line.

Well, not taking random DT's and turning them into lineman will be a good start. Another nice improvement will be using players at their given positions, rather than training each player for every position in the name of "versatility". As a result they are crappy at every position. We're already off to a better start lol

Sounds good, but as much as we think Solari will make a positive difference...........talent matters.

Right now 100% healthy this line is mediocre at best, and thin as hell for depth. You've got a late 5th round rookie as your LT backup, Fant coming off a major injury battling Ifedi at RT, and two terrible backup guards in Odhiambo and Roos.

I get that we can't address all of our needs in one thin draft pick wise, but to not pick a lineman until the late 5th round at our most important position of need? Yikes.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

Apparently that was all Cable's fault. Now that he's gone, it's gonna be nothing but All Pro invites up and down the line.

You're the one who snapped an axle a couple months ago about Carson not being reliable. If we don't get a good RB to make hay behind that OL, the gain from more offensive linemen remains limited.

Solari doesn't need to make All-Pros out of the current crew. He just needs them average. Additionally, Penny is the type who can produce somewhat behind that line.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

Apparently that was all Cable's fault. Now that he's gone, it's gonna be nothing but All Pro invites up and down the line.

You're the one who snapped an axle a couple months ago about Carson not being reliable. If we don't get a good RB to make hay behind that OL, the gain from more offensive linemen remains limited.

Solari doesn't need to make All-Pros out of the current crew. He just needs them average. Additionally, Penny is the type who can produce somewhat behind that line.

1. I was being sarcastic
2. I never "snapped an axle"
3. I'd RATHER we drafted Hernandez, but I like Penny
4. Cut a hole in the box

 

[Mad Dog]

The problem is, OL is the second toughest position to evaluate after QB. In college, what OL and QB's do is so fundamentally different from how it works in the pros, that the boom or bust potential is huge. A late first round OL is a total crapshoot and only slightly more likely to pan out than a 4th round OL. A first round RB on the other hand is much easier to evaluate and a higher likelihood of success because of that. And late first round is a perfect slot to get a top RB. Their peak years are likely their first five and you have a palatable cap hit for all those years.

We've been spending decent capital on OL for the last 6 years. That strategy isn't working. Let's see how a new strategy of different coach and OC with a strong RB and TE group works. I'm all for it.

If that fails then it's time to re-evaluate the OL scouts and find better ones.

the Seahawks also did some really goofy crap with their line picks (thanks Cable). We can't just stop drafting lineman and expect our line to magically get better. They have also passed on some really good lineman in the past via the draft, and came away with questionable picks.

Hindsight is 20-20. We have no idea if any of the "really good linemen" would have fared any better than our "questionable picks" in our system. This year we learn if its system or talent. If Brown returns to ProBowl levels, Ifedi blooms into a competent blocker and Fluker and Pocic play solid at guard, we won't be whining that much. If it remains a dumpster fire than we know the finger must be pointed at scouting.

If is scouting, then drafting more linemen with our current scouting staff would lead to another "questionable pick" to complain about.

 

[AgentDib]

People outsmart themselves when it comes to running production and running backs. It's boring to talk about how important the RB is and you can sound much more insightful if you talk about OL scheme, OL personnel, OC play calling and NFL rule changes. As a result I find people undervalue the most obvious piece of the puzzle.

With our supposedly garbage OL scheme and personnel we were great in the running game when we had Lynch. Even after the rule changes the running game was good for the first three weeks last season and somehow became dumpster tier at the exact same time Carson was injured vs. Green Bay. Sure it was just three full games, but Carson had a 4.2 YPC behind the line that everybody thinks was awful and that was before we picked up Duane Brown. And even after Carson went down, Russ still rushed for nearly 600 yards on the season. It's crazy that people use that stat primarily to talk up Russ instead of realizing how completely ineffective our remaining RBs were in comparison.

At this time last year the Oakland Raiders were widely regarded to have a top 2 OL. They went on to finish with less total rushing yards than even we had because Lynch was only available for 13 carries per game and they didn't have a good #2 rusher. I know it's boring but the running back is a key element of the running game.

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/robstaton/status/991066307935330307[/tweet]

 

[KiwiHawk]

We had a crappy OL. Last year.

Since then, we have:
Change OL coaches
Added Fluker
Got Fant back from injury
Added the best blocking tight end in College
Subtracted the worst blocking tight end in the NFL
Added some proper fullbacks

It's entirely possible we've done enough to get the running game going without adding Hernandez, and given we didn't have another pick until the 3rd, selecting Hernandez would have precluded taking a good running back in the draft.

On that basis I think we made the correct call, but time will tell.

 

[chris98251]

2017 2nd Ethan Pocic Center
2017 6th Justin Senior Tackle
2016 1st Germain Ifedi Tackle
2016 3rd Rees Odhiambo Guard
2016 6th Joey Hunt Center
2015 4th Terry Poole Guard
2015 4th Mark Glowinski Guard
2014 2nd Justin Britt Tackle
2014 6th Garrett Scott Tackle
2013 7th Ryan Seymour Guard
2013 7th Michael Bowie Tackle
2012 7th J.R. Sweezy Guard
2011 1st James Carpenter Tackle
2011 3rd John Moffitt Guard
2010 1st Russell Okung Tackle


We have invested heavily, just like cooking you can get the best cut of steaks all day long but if a guy can't cook he will ruin every one of them no matter the meat cut. Thats been the case here.

Lets see what a new Caoch can do, he can't do worse it's got to be better then worst line in the league.

 

[hawkfan68]

We had a crappy OL. Last year.

Since then, we have:
Change OL coaches
Added Fluker
Got Fant back from injury
Added the best blocking tight end in College
Subtracted the worst blocking tight end in the NFL
Added some proper fullbacks

It's entirely possible we've done enough to get the running game going without adding Hernandez, and given we didn't have another pick until the 3rd, selecting Hernandez would have precluded taking a good running back in the draft.

On that basis I think we made the correct call, but time will tell.

Very good points. To add, the Seahawks have 3 first rounders (Brown, Ifedi, and Fluker) and 2 second rounders (Pocic and Britt) penciled in as starters. It's time to develop their talent and help them realize their potential. That was not done under the previous coach. All that was taught was how to dive at the defenders knees. I think Solari will teach them more and the improvement will be tremendous. Having a good rb who can help the line is also a bonus. Together they can help one another play better. Just as Lynch and Wilson did for the OL in 2012-2015.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Hawks draft a RB: "What a reach" "Horrible pick"
Pats draft a RB a few spots later: "What a great pick" :?

That sums it up nicely. If the Cheatriots draft Penny, it would be “the steal of the draft”.