Poll: Collins or Pope?

[sc85sis]

While Collins has nice burst on his 3rd or 4th step, his initial steps are painfully slow. For this reason, he's a completely ineffective back out of read option looks because they require a RB to be very sudden. Collins also isn't very good as a pure between the tackles power back. See him get planted on his backside that one run? That would never happen to Lynch, or even to most average power runners.

Where Collins does shine (faintly) is in single set back formations where the ball is snapped under center and Collins is very deep behind the LOS. This gives Collins time to hit full speed by the time he takes the handoff, and if you give him a place to run with that modestly good 2nd gear, he can get you some 10-20 yard runs.

It seems Seattle's coaches realized this as well and started giving Collins several single set back looks in a row during the 4th quarter. Not surprisingly, this is when Collins finally started to look like a productive RB.

Unfortunately, these kinds of runs are only one piece of the puzzle for Tom Cable's system, and Collins' looking absolutely horrible out of read option looks would be the kiss of death in a just world. That said, John Schneider was higher on Collins than most and apparently was pretty enthusiastic about Collins' big carries tonight. It would be a big mistake to cut Pope for Collins, but don't be surprised if draft bias gets the better of our GM.

Pope just continues to look like a good NFL player. He's not J-Force 2.0, he's Rawls-lite. And Rawls-lite is something I really want on this roster a year from now when C-Mike signs a lucrative contract with another team this next offseason. Pope has earned the right to be this team's #2 RB in 2017. But if they cut him this weekend, Seattle will be pissing away a good player, for nothing.

John doesn't have final say on the roster though. Pete does.

 

[ACFan]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

Having said that, every back was facing some pretty serious penetration at some point, not just tonight but all preseason.

All preseason, I think C-Mike got the best opportunties (field position, down and distance, quality of O-line) and Collins got the worst.

Every decent opportunity AC got he produced, as did Pope and Prosise.

If the question is which backs are the most talented, From what I've witnessed, I'd put it at 1) Rawls then a 3 way tie for 2nd AC, CJ and Pope. really close.

I concede the special teams play by Pope is valuable.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Yep.

If AC was an UDFA, he would have been gone already.

This is a clear sign of the team saying any player gets a chance from any slot but keeping AC (who will never be anything but a less effective Turbin) will be a sign that is not correct. AC is good once up to speed but takes too long to get up to speed.

 

[sc85sis]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

Having said that, every back was facing some pretty serious penetration at some point, not just tonight but all preseason.

All preseason, I think C-Mike got the best opportunties (field position, down and distance, quality of O-line) and Collins got the worst.

Every decent opportunity AC got he produced, as did Pope and Prosise.

If the question is which backs are the most talented, From what I've witnessed, I'd put it at 1) Rawls then a 3 way tie for 2nd AC, CJ and Pope. really close.

I concede the special teams play by Pope is valuable.

I think perhaps your AC bias is showing.

 

[vin.couve12]

The comparisons of Collins to Beast Mode were always staggeringly asinine to me. As if people were looking at height, weight, and dreads and looking at nothing else.

Collins has an extremely narrow base and narrow gate with a very lacking center of gravity. You want a RB who is hard to knock of his feet, but with Collins center of gravity coupled with his narrow feet, it almost looks like his shoes are tied together. It's galactically stupid to compare him to Marshawn, who almost had a base like a spider.

I said it when he was drafted and I"ll say it again, the OL has to do a lot of the work for a guy like Collins so he can get up to speed and build forward momentum so that his vision and forward momentum even remotely comes into play.

He'll make the practice squad anyway. He won't be claimed.

 

[kearly]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

 

[theincrediblesok]

Just some more perspective. Pope did play against lower tiers before Alex got his chance, but Pope also did a lot of good things, reminds of Rawls during his preseason games when he also played against 3rd-4th stringers. Remember Michael and Turbin was the presumed leads before the 2015 preseason game, and Rawls made them both dispensable.


Pope
2-10
10-86 1TD
4-14 yards
8-52 1TD, 1-13 yards receiving

24 carries 162 yards 2 TD (6.75 yards per carry), 1 receiving 13 yards


Collins
Chiefs: 3-5 yards 1-4 receiving
Vikings: 6-13 yards, 1-8 yards receiving
Cowboys: 3-19 yards
Raiders: 9-40 1TD 1-0 receiving

21 carries 77 yards 1 TD (3.66 yards per carry), 3 receiving 12 yards


Rawls
Broncos: 9-31, 1-19 1TD
Chiefs: 4-20
Chargers: 6-20, 1-7 receiving
Raiders: 11-87 1 TD, 2-16 receiving

30 carries 158 yards 1TD (5.26 yards per carry), 4-42 yards receiving 1TD

 

[ACFan]

Because they want Collins to be a "power back" I think a 1/3 of his carries this preseason were in 3rd/4th and short, where there was major penetration and he had no chance, that killed his average.

 

[McGruff]

The comparisons of Collins to Beast Mode were always staggeringly asinine to me. As if people were looking at height, weight, and dreads and looking at nothing else.

Collins has an extremely narrow base and narrow gate with a very lacking center of gravity. You want a RB who is hard to knock of his feet, but with Collins center of gravity coupled with his narrow feet, that almost look like his shoes are tied together. It's galactically stupid to compare him to Marshawn, who almost had a base like a spider.

I said it when he was drafted and I"ll say it again, the OL has to do a lot of the work for a guy like Collins so he can get up to speed and build forward momentum so that his vision and forward momentum even remotely comes into play.

He'll make the practice squad anyway. He won't be claimed.

Collins had the low, quick, stutter step feet of Marshawn, but not the bow legged wide base running style.

 

[vin.couve12]

The comparisons of Collins to Beast Mode were always staggeringly asinine to me. As if people were looking at height, weight, and dreads and looking at nothing else.

Collins has an extremely narrow base and narrow gate with a very lacking center of gravity. You want a RB who is hard to knock of his feet, but with Collins center of gravity coupled with his narrow feet, that almost look like his shoes are tied together. It's galactically stupid to compare him to Marshawn, who almost had a base like a spider.

I said it when he was drafted and I"ll say it again, the OL has to do a lot of the work for a guy like Collins so he can get up to speed and build forward momentum so that his vision and forward momentum even remotely comes into play.

He'll make the practice squad anyway. He won't be claimed.

Collins had the low, quick, stutter step feet of Marshawn, but not the bow legged wide base running style.

No. Not at all. Their feet are not comparable what so ever.

 

[ACFan]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

maybe I'll eventually see C-mike make a good open field move, until then, my opinion is just that.

every good run he had, the first teamers blew open a big hole hole he'd run through and then fall down for 10 yards. (I think both AC and Pope would've gone for 20+ on those plays)

I'm just not sold, maybe I haven't seen him enough yet.

 

[McGruff]

The comparisons of Collins to Beast Mode were always staggeringly asinine to me. As if people were looking at height, weight, and dreads and looking at nothing else.

Collins has an extremely narrow base and narrow gate with a very lacking center of gravity. You want a RB who is hard to knock of his feet, but with Collins center of gravity coupled with his narrow feet, that almost look like his shoes are tied together. It's galactically stupid to compare him to Marshawn, who almost had a base like a spider.

I said it when he was drafted and I"ll say it again, the OL has to do a lot of the work for a guy like Collins so he can get up to speed and build forward momentum so that his vision and forward momentum even remotely comes into play.

He'll make the practice squad anyway. He won't be claimed.

Collins had the low, quick, stutter step feet of Marshawn, but not the bow legged wide base running style.

No. Not at all. Their feet are not comparable what so ever.

Agree to disagree. They are similar in one way. Both run with quick stutter steps. The difference to me is that Marshawn's steps were 3 feet apart, and Collins feet were 3 inches.

I agree overall that collins base is far too narrow to be successful unless he learns to widen that base.

 

[vin.couve12]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

maybe I'll eventually see C-mike make a good open field move, until then, my opinion is just that.

every good run he had, the first teamers blew open a big hole hole he'd run through and then fall down for 10 yards.

I'm just not sold, maybe I haven't seen him enough yet.

This is not Madden or College. The open field is about 10% of an NFL running back's carries. Maybe less.

 

[ACFan]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

maybe I'll eventually see C-mike make a good open field move, until then, my opinion is just that.

every good run he had, the first teamers blew open a big hole hole he'd run through and then fall down for 10 yards.

I'm just not sold, maybe I haven't seen him enough yet.

This is not Madden or College. The open field is about 10% of an NFL running back's carries. Maybe less.

true, I should have just said "good move" that's what I meant, saw plenty of good moves out of CJ, AC and Pope.

 

[Rocket]

whatever god wants

That's a funny joke ( said in Eddy Murphy's voice )

 

[Rocket]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

That's a no, right?

 

[johnnyfever]

Because they want Collins to be a "power back" I think a 1/3 of his carries this preseason were in 3rd/4th and short, where there was major penetration and he had no chance, that killed his average.

This makes no sense. If this is the spot and situation he is to be used in, then he needs to do well in that instance. He has not. He is way too easy to get off balance and gives up when touched. On third and short teams expect the seahawks to run it. He needs to be able to power through 1 or 2 defenders to get the first down. He made almost no yards after initial contact in those situations. I kept wanting to see something from him as he has the build to be a good power back, just doesn't have the hunger and drive to get it done. Maybe in a few years, but right now he is unimpressive. I haven't kept track around the league of how many decent backs will probably get released, but from what he has shown just in the preseason, he is practice squad fodder. Might be good in camp, but camp doesn't win you Lombardis.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The thing about Troymaine Pope is that he reminded me of, say, the 2012 preseason when we would have players who dominated second- and third-stringers. Pope was around that level where he was just clearly better than the other team's scrubs.

A guy who flashes that much against lesser talent clearly has enough of it to be on a 53-man roster.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Rawls and Michael are locks to make the roster. Prosise should make the roster as well. Assuming the Seahawks keep four running backs, who gets the final spot between Troymaine Pope and Alex Collins?

Can we have a third option? I didn't see the game, so I have no clue who Pope is beyond some old Catholic mummy type guy in the Vatican?

Especially since Smelly loves being the contrarian with no actual proof. Show Me already because you're boring me and the whole state of Missouri at the same time.

 

[TwistedHusky]

This isn't the only game he has done this....