Poll: Collins or Pope?

[mrt144]

Tonight on Pope and DangeRuss: Who Stole All the Fun?

 

[Natethegreat]

(For what purpose? Your pride?

We've drafted 2 slendermen in the past few years and run screens in their general direction with them as blockers, hinged our blocking on offensive players that haven't played on that side of the ball sometimes ever, and threw a pass against in a superbowl game winning situation against the 31st worst run defense in the league.

Hedging bets on other men's decisions is for the broke and desperate. We're not talking odds here and it's certainly not worth your feelings.)


Ahh yes, not willing to back up your ridiculous statements you then claim if he does stick that there must be some nefarious reason other than the coaches seeing a man with talent and ability and wanting to keep him.

Maybe he does get cut ( I doubt it but Pope has played very well and I'm rooting for him) but I guarantee he would be snatched up in a nanosecond by other teams who do not share your negative view of Collins.

 

[sc85sis]

In my completely inexpert opinion, Pope has shown more than Collins in game situations.

What we don't know, because we aren't there to witness it, is how they compare in practice. Also, is AC better at catching out of the backfield and handling RB blocking assignments? Is Pope more valuable from a Teams perspective?

Pete, John and the staff do know these things, and they will consider them all.

I don't envy them right now.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Ok., show me. And some 4th preseason game isn't proof. Go ahead now. That is football and not crap correct?

All those guys playing for their NFL lives tonight would disagree. As would PC/JS. John Schneider was even at the game in person to help get as best a feel as possible for the decisions that are coming over the next 48 hours. Obviously, the 4th preseason game matters from an evaluation standpoint.

It does, but only for the fringe players. We already chose the players we as fans will see in real games last week. This week all about should we keep someone that isn't ready but valuable.

 

[kearly]

You're a much more patient poster than I, Kearly, and in that respect a much better one.

I saw RW run out on the field to congratulate Collins tonight though. Something he didn't do for Pope and in that I was reminded of his former roomy, Turbin. I don't put it past anything that Collins makes the team. There are always other factors at play than a mantra of competition.

Normally it wouldn't bother me all that much, because Turbin never really blocked anybody by making the roster his first three years. That's not the case here. Sure, I can't say that Pope is a future NFL star. But I can say that he looks roughly as impressive as Joey Hunt has looked against the same level of competition, and nobody questions that Hunt is worth keeping. Maybe Pope is a flash in the pan or maybe he's the next Devonta Freeman. I like him as a system fit and hope he makes it.

I agree that cutting a guy like Pope really hurts their message about open competition, and undercuts their message to future UDFA's about playing their way onto the roster.

There are so many teams that are so needy at RB, it's hard to imagine Pope making it to our PS. BTW, I think Collins would get claimed if cut. His tape is bad, but he's still a big back with decent speed. Some team will kick the tires. If that team runs a lot of single set back formations and has a good OL, Collins could be a great fit for them.

 

[kearly]

It does, but only for the fringe players. We already chose the players we as fans will see in real games last week.

Rawls was terrible in his first three preseason games last year, and effectively earned his spot on the roster with a masterful performance in the 4th preseason game.

 

[vin.couve12]

(For what purpose? Your pride?

We've drafted 2 slendermen in the past few years and run screens in their general direction with them as blockers, hinged our blocking on offensive players that haven't played on that side of the ball sometimes ever, and threw a pass against in a superbowl game winning situation against the 31st worst run defense in the league.

Hedging bets on other men's decisions is for the broke and desperate. We're not talking odds here and it's certainly not worth your feelings.)


Ahh yes, not willing to back up your ridiculous statements you then claim if he does stick that there must be some nefarious reason other than the coaches seeing a man with talent and ability and wanting to keep him.

Maybe he does get cut ( I doubt it but Pope has played very well and I'm rooting for him) but I guarantee he would be snatched up in a nanosecond by other teams who do not share your negative view of Collins.

There's nothing to back up, dude. It's not my decision. The vast majority of players drafted or signed get cut within 1 to 2 years. That said, initial interest doesn't hold weight, but hey....maybe you're right and he sticks in some universe.

 

[kearly]

In my completely inexpert opinion, Pope has shown more than Collins in game situations.

What we don't know, because we aren't there to witness it, is how they compare in practice. Also, is AC better at catching out of the backfield and handling RB blocking assignments? Is Pope more valuable from a Teams perspective?

Pete, John and the staff do know these things, and they will consider them all.

I don't envy them right now.

While practice can be a deciding factor in certain cases (like C-Mike getting ousted last year for lacking fundamentals in practice situations), it's not a great tool for evaluating RBs. Most practices are non-contact and you are kind of left guessing how a lot of runs would have gone.

I think if they keep Collins over Pope, it will be because of draft eval bias. Based on statements JS has made, he had nearly as high a grade on Collins as he did for CJ Procise.

 

[Rob12]

If Pope doesn't make the team over Collins then the theme of competition has no integrity what so ever. Collins doesn't even run the same measure of power as Pope, which was supposed to be his forte, according to the folks who don't know or never played the position before.

This exactly. Pope has flat out outplayed Collins.

 

[vin.couve12]

You're a much more patient poster than I, Kearly, and in that respect a much better one.

I saw RW run out on the field to congratulate Collins tonight though. Something he didn't do for Pope and in that I was reminded of his former roomy, Turbin. I don't put it past anything that Collins makes the team. There are always other factors at play than a mantra of competition.

Normally it wouldn't bother me all that much, because Turbin never really blocked anybody by making the roster his first three years. That's not the case here. Sure, I can't say that Pope is a future NFL star. But I can say that he looks roughly as impressive as Joey Hunt has looked against the same level of competition, and nobody questions that Hunt is worth keeping. Maybe Pope is a flash in the pan or maybe he's the next Devonta Freeman. I like him as a system fit and hope he makes it.

I agree that cutting a guy like Pope really hurts their message about open competition, and undercuts their message to future UDFA's about playing their way onto the roster.

There are so many teams that are so needy at RB, it's hard to imagine Pope making it to our PS. BTW, I think Collins would get claimed if cut. His tape is bad, but he's still a big back with decent speed. Some team will kick the tires. If that team runs a lot of single set back formations and has a good OL, Collins could be a great fit for them.

I don't disagree with any of this. Even right down to Collins being a good back in a system where he can "ramp up" so to speak. If he can be provided that, what talent he has would really come out. He's got good vision with a clear running lane and in the open field for sure. I'm just not of the opinion that he'll get that with a Seattle OL as it stands. I think he'd be a good backup in Dallas, for instance, but I don't know that they'd give him a shot. I wouldn't...having vision with space isn't really rare. JMHO.

 

[scutterhawk]

What I liked most about Troymain Pope, was the way his legs kept churning after contact...Was very Lynch like IMHO
Just re-watch the game, and pay special attention to that BIG Raider defender who was struggling to take the 5'-8" 210 lb. Pope down LOLOL, Pope's legs kept churning to get the first down.
On that play, I was laughing my ass off...told the Wife that he reminded me of a mini-Beast on that run. :rumble:

 

[Fade]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

Having said that, every back was facing some pretty serious penetration at some point, not just tonight but all preseason.

All preseason, I think C-Mike got the best opportunties (field position, down and distance, quality of O-line) and Collins got the worst.

Every decent opportunity AC got he produced, as did Pope and Prosise.

If the question is which backs are the most talented, From what I've witnessed, I'd put it at 1) Rawls then a 3 way tie for 2nd AC, CJ and Pope. really close.

I concede the special teams play by Pope is valuable.

 

[Fade]

kearly hit on the right points between Collins' & Pope's running styles. Pope is the superior fit. Seattle's most oft used play the last 3 seasons is the --> Inside Zone Read. The Hawks run this play into the ground. Rawls, C-Mike, & Pope can all do damage on this play, along with similar type gun runs because of their initial burst.

When you factor in special teams it's not even close.

Pope >> Collins.

 

[Throwdown]

It's gotta be pope

 

[IndyHawk]

I didn't see the game but I go with the 12's who did because I have been proven wrong on my thoughts such as Rawls last year ect.A lot of Pope love is in here so I will join.I never cared for the CJ P pick and so far he is doing what I thought there is a reason he went from WR to CB and then RB only by injury need.At ND he had a massive Dallas like line and had huge holes that Kearly would have ran through.AC seems like a bust so no need to keep garbage right?I hope Pete stays with who competes and shows up regardless of their draft status,I want hungry football players no matter drafted or not.

 

[Rob12]

I didn't see the game but I go with the 12's who did because I have been proven wrong on my thoughts such as Rawls last year ect.A lot of Pope love is in here so I will join.I never cared for the CJ P pick and so far he is doing what I thought there is a reason he went from WR to CB and then RB only by injury need.At ND he had a massive Dallas like line and had huge holes that Kearly would have ran through.AC seems like a bust so no need to keep garbage right?I hope Pete stays with who competes and shows up regardless of their draft status,I want hungry football players no matter drafted or not.

Little quick to cut bait on a third round pick, don't you think?

I think Prosise is going to be very good for us.

 

[two dog]

While Collins has nice burst on his 3rd or 4th step, his initial steps are painfully slow. For this reason, he's a completely ineffective back out of read option looks because they require a RB to be very sudden. Collins also isn't very good as a pure between the tackles power back. See him get planted on his backside that one run? That would never happen to Lynch, or even to most average power runners.

Where Collins does shine (faintly) is in single set back formations where the ball is snapped under center and Collins is very deep behind the LOS. This gives Collins time to hit full speed by the time he takes the handoff, and if you give him a place to run with that modestly good 2nd gear, he can get you some 10-20 yard runs.

It seems Seattle's coaches realized this as well and started giving Collins several single set back looks in a row during the 4th quarter. Not surprisingly, this is when Collins finally started to look like a productive RB.

Unfortunately, these kinds of runs are only one piece of the puzzle for Tom Cable's system, and Collins' looking absolutely horrible out of read option looks would be the kiss of death in a just world. That said, John Schneider was higher on Collins than most and apparently was pretty enthusiastic about Collins' big carries tonight. It would be a big mistake to cut Pope for Collins, but don't be surprised if draft bias gets the better of our GM.

Pope just continues to look like a good NFL player. He's not J-Force 2.0, he's Rawls-lite. And Rawls-lite is something I really want on this roster a year from now when C-Mike signs a lucrative contract with another team this next offseason. Pope has earned the right to be this team's #2 RB in 2017. If they cut him this weekend, Seattle will be pissing away a good player, for nothing.

Oh that's right we have CJ Procise... actually, he looked pretty bad tonight.

PCJS seem to make 1-2 "wtf" cuts every preseason, so it wouldn't shock me at all if Pope got cut.

y

If they had drafted Tyler Ervin like I think you wanted and I definitely wanted, we wouldn't need to
even have this discussion.
When I watch him run kicks and make plays in both the running and passing game for the Texans,
I burn with envy.

 

[hawknation2016]

I thought Collins had a good game with several nice runs and a beautiful job in pass protection. But, once again, Pope looked more explosive. I would give the edge to Pope.

I thought Michael regressed back to some bad habits of hesitating too much. Rawls looked fully back on his 8-yard carry. Will Tukuafu was drilling people. The TE/FB Joe Sommers had a nice game too. Brandon Williams looked excellent again. Luke Willson showed off his athleticism on the first drive. Sowell, Glowinski, and Britt all looked solid in limited action. Ifedi had an off-game. I thought Gilliam looked OK. Webb, Evans, Fant, and Odhiambo looked pretty bad. Hunt was solid. Kenny Lawler had a nice play. Overall, the reserve receivers showed very little. Boykin looked frazzled.

 

[Largent80]

5-8 and 210 is pretty friggin stout for that height. He outplayed Collins whether we like it or not, and I DO like it.

If Collins gets cut and snagged, so be it. At least we know we have a player that is tough and has that spark.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

I like Pope. Lesser competition or not, he has shown he doesn't need the o-line to create a hole. Just give him a li'l crease and he makes plays.