Poll: Collins or Pope?

[vin.couve12]

Because they want Collins to be a "power back" I think a 1/3 of his carries this preseason were in 3rd/4th and short, where there was major penetration and he had no chance, that killed his average.

This makes no sense. If this is the spot and situation he is to be used in, then he needs to do well in that instance. He has not. He is way too easy to get off balance and gives up when touched. On third and short teams expect the seahawks to run it. He needs to be able to power through 1 or 2 defenders to get the first down. He made almost no yards after initial contact in those situations. I kept wanting to see something from him as he has the build to be a good power back, just doesn't have the hunger and drive to get it done. Maybe in a few years, but right now he is unimpressive. I haven't kept track around the league of how many decent backs will probably get released, but from what he has shown just in the preseason, he is practice squad fodder. Might be good in camp, but camp doesn't win you Lombardis.

It's not really about hunger and drive. Collins carries the vast majority of his weight in his torso. Obviously that the norm for most humans, but in Collins' case it's disproportionately so. He doesn't "bend" well and what core strength he does have, is offset by the fact that he doesn't bend and lean well. Unless he's completely square to the LOS he just doesn't have much football strength at the NFL level. In College, sure, but not here. It has more to do with his narrow base and lacking center of gravity than anything. His choppy, extremely short steps are also a detriment. He has to get up to running speed before he has any real stride to speak of, but at that point he's upright and gets laid out from the side, as we saw tonight.

 

[kearly]

The thing about Troymaine Pope is that he reminded me of, say, the 2012 preseason when we would have players who dominated second- and third-stringers. Pope was around that level where he was just clearly better than the other team's scrubs.

A guy who flashes that much against lesser talent clearly has enough of it to be on a 53-man roster.

Thanks for saying this, I've been feeling this all preseason as well. Our back half of the current roster would have gotten trucked by the back half of the 2012 and 2013 rosters. You are right that Pope is like a symbol of what that level of quality is supposed to look like for a PCJS team. But they've really struggled at finding that quality at the back end in recent years. It's probably because the rest of the NFL is looking for the same players now.

 

[kearly]

The comparisons of Collins to Beast Mode were always staggeringly asinine to me. As if people were looking at height, weight, and dreads and looking at nothing else.

Collins has an extremely narrow base and narrow gate with a very lacking center of gravity. You want a RB who is hard to knock of his feet, but with Collins center of gravity coupled with his narrow feet, that almost look like his shoes are tied together. It's galactically stupid to compare him to Marshawn, who almost had a base like a spider.

I said it when he was drafted and I"ll say it again, the OL has to do a lot of the work for a guy like Collins so he can get up to speed and build forward momentum so that his vision and forward momentum even remotely comes into play.

He'll make the practice squad anyway. He won't be claimed.

Collins had the low, quick, stutter step feet of Marshawn, but not the bow legged wide base running style.

No. Not at all. Their feet are not comparable what so ever.

Agree to disagree. They are similar in one way. Both run with quick stutter steps. The difference to me is that Marshawn's steps were 3 feet apart, and Collins feet were 3 inches.

I agree overall that collins base is far too narrow to be successful unless he learns to widen that base.

Lynch didn't have pitter patter feet like Collins. His feet were as violent as his running style, and he owed a great deal of his agility to his ability to plant and explode. That and the fact that Lynch had a super wide base and Collins a super narrow base... that fact alone is really all you need to say to prove their footwork is nothing alike.

Lynch also had an explosive first couple of steps, and did very well out of read option looks because of it. Collins 3rd and 4th steps are pretty good, but his first two steps are molasses slow. Lynch was also an elite change of direction / start-stop back, and for Collins, agility is arguably his biggest weakness.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

The thing about Troymaine Pope is that he reminded me of, say, the 2012 preseason when we would have players who dominated second- and third-stringers. Pope was around that level where he was just clearly better than the other team's scrubs.

A guy who flashes that much against lesser talent clearly has enough of it to be on a 53-man roster.

Thanks for saying this, I've been feeling this all preseason as well. Our back half of the current roster would have gotten trucked by the back half of the 2012 and 2013 rosters. You are right that Pope is like a symbol of what that level of quality is supposed to look like for a PCJS team. But they've really struggled at finding that quality at the back end in recent years. It's probably because the rest of the NFL is looking for the same players now.

Just see New England and understand it's ALL ABOUT THE QUARTERBACK. With that your OL can and usually is crap beyond certain critical spots. For Wilson it's all about the Center and Guards.

 

[vin.couve12]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

 

[Natethegreat]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

:roll:

 

[Mistashoesta]

Troymaine Pope

[youtube]M8YjvHYbZ9w[/youtube]

Alex Collins

[youtube]mRDl5_-wJ0Y[/youtube]

 

[vin.couve12]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

:roll:

Got shot in the eye with something?

 

[Natethegreat]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

:roll:

Got shot in the eye with something?

Willing to make a bet on whether or not Collins makes the team and if not clears waivers? Your statements are ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[Vetamur]

Black smoke going up for our new Pope...

Have the feeling that whooshed over a lot of heads, but I liked it.

 

[mrt144]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

:roll:

Got shot in the eye with something?

Willing to make a bet on whether or not Collins makes the team and if not clears waivers? Your statements are ridiculous hyperbole.

Forum bet!!!!!!!!!

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I love this site. It's full of "I know better" yet are wrong most every time.

 

[kearly]

It won't be popular, but I'd keep them both and cut C-Mike.

both look to be better natural runners to me.

lol

That's a no, right?

I just thought it was funny. I like ACFan and respect his passion.

 

[kearly]

I love this site. It's full of "I know better" yet are wrong most every time.

I'm actually loving this thread. People are talking football and cracking jokes. Let's talk football, and not crap on others for doing what a message board was made to do.

 

[vin.couve12]

Collins should, for all intents and purposes, be cut and likely won't be claimed. He'll likely make it to the PS and the best thing that he can do for his career is focus on losing weight and strengthening his base. Some sort of martial arts training would be really beneficial for him.

:roll:

Got shot in the eye with something?

Willing to make a bet on whether or not Collins makes the team and if not clears waivers? Your statements are ridiculous hyperbole.

For what purpose? Your pride?

We've drafted 2 slendermen in the past few years and run screens in their general direction with them as blockers, hinged our blocking on offensive players that haven't played on that side of the ball sometimes ever, and threw a pass against in a superbowl game winning situation against the 31st worst run defense in the league.

Hedging bets on other men's decisions is for the broke and desperate. We're not talking odds here and it's certainly not worth your feelings.

 

[kearly]

Damn couv. That was straight fire.

Sometimes NFL teams do amazing things that plebs like us could never have pulled off. How many of us would have even known about Troymaine Pope much less signed him?

But even the brightest minds still have a few blind spots, and miss things that even ordinary fans can see with total clarity. Blind spots exist for everyone.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I love this site. It's full of "I know better" yet are wrong most every time.

I'm actually loving this thread. People are talking football and cracking jokes. Let's talk football, and not crap on others for doing what a message board was made to do.

Ok., show me. And some 4th preseason game isn't proof. Go ahead now. That is football and not crap correct? You explain why you know better. You yourself especially given I have serious doubts and questions concerning your conclusions that usually haven't been correct since 2012. It all about the quarterback not the OL or the running backs or the TE or the WR. Prove me different sir.

You have an elite quarterback and an OL built to HIS needs? You're Golden.

 

[vin.couve12]

You're a much more patient poster than I, Kearly, and in that respect a much better one.

I saw RW run out on the field to congratulate Collins tonight though. Something he didn't do for Pope and in that I was reminded of his former roomy, Turbin. I don't put it past anything that Collins makes the team. There are always other factors at play than a mantra of competition.

 

[Vetamur]

I love this site. It's full of "I know better" yet are wrong most every time.

I'm actually loving this thread. People are talking football and cracking jokes. Let's talk football, and not crap on others for doing what a message board was made to do.

Ok., show me. And some 4th preseason game isn't proof. Go ahead now. That is football and not crap correct?

n/m.. minding my own business.

 

[kearly]

Ok., show me. And some 4th preseason game isn't proof. Go ahead now. That is football and not crap correct?

All those guys playing for their NFL lives tonight would disagree. As would PC/JS. John Schneider was even at the game in person to help get as best a feel as possible for the decisions that are coming over the next 48 hours. Obviously, the 4th preseason game matters from an evaluation standpoint.