Pope cut

[themunn]

It's amazing how people think you can win a roster spot by "outcompeting" on 24 preseason carries.

40 carries 201 yards and a TD. That was Christine Michael in 2013. It's only taken him 3 years to actually start looking like the real deal... maybe. it's still only preseason after all, maybe he'll burn us yet again.

What you do in training camp is far more important than a few meaningless preseason carries.

 

[Vetamur]

What will be interesting to see if Collins is even active on game day. I suspect he will be.

He absolutely should be active, up on the game plan and ready to get in the game and work if need be.

This is the NFL, anything can happen. It is factual to say Rawls averages an injury every 13 games in a Seahawk uniform, the next one might be 40 games away, or 2 quarters away, he had 2 carries in preseason. All 4 RBs kept bring something different and can produce, and honestly I'm least impressed with the guy currently listed as #2, if he were to be needed for any extended work.

I expect Collins will be ready to go, absolutely. Probably not needed, but ready and capable of helping.

What will be interesting to see if Collins is even active on game day. I suspect he will be.

By the sound of it, Collins was kept for roster protection purposes, not because he had earned anything.

The last part of that statement is an opinion, which I doubt you would keep if you were privy to everything the coaches have seen.

I'm curious as to what exactly it would have taken for Pope to make this team.

Well here's my theory, maybe he would have needed to look as good or better than Collins did, once the heavy hitting started back in camp. Now please hear me out.

That 4-5 day period before the first preseason game, when they really started playing in practice and hitting at 100%, going against as good or better defense than they would see the entire preseason.

That time when Collins was the about the only healthy back, C-mike was sick, Pope should have been available then? right? Farmer?

So we got Collins for sure and probably Pope , working with the 1st team O, going against the 1st team defense, beginning to really simulate a game, that first week.

We got quotes from Russell Wilson saying Collins made a cut "so sharp and exquisite", it was the best he's ever seen, now does RW not know what he's talking about? he's played with Rawls and Lynch as well, saw a lot of their moves.

We got writers witnessing it, listing Collins at #20 of players to look out for this preseason. So there seemed to be a buzz about Collins, not Pope.



Lastly, I'll paraphrase a quote from CPC, with the backdrop being concerns about AC's ball security,"we've pounded and pounded on him, he's taken it and dished it back out"

Then I heard several posters mention that he may have tweaked an ankle, right at the end of camp, also recall a CPC quote about "having to start taking it easy on guys" when asked about AC.

So I've had this theory for a while now, and it's remained plausible though the events of the last 3 weeks and explained a lot of things including why AC got minimal looks in preseason.

And that's simply he wowed them in camp, they worked him and worked him, and by the time preseason game 1 came, he was too beat up, or they were already convinced he was a keeper, enough so not to keep pushing him when he may not be 100% and others are starting to get healthy.

And do think it was AC, Pope and Farmer as the only available backs that first week of full contact scrimmages.

I'm suggesting the coaches got a real good comparison then, things we didn't see. And it convinced them enough that things played out like they did.

that's my theory.

Will throw in my own few comments. The idea that keeping Collins undermines PCs philosophy is , sorry, garbage. As is the idea that if PC and JS make a decision you dont personally agree with mean its THEY who have gotten away from what they do. Man some people need to have their ego checked. Reasonable people can disagree, its not like they kept a 80 year old man with Parkinsons over Pope.

As a couple of others have noted, preseason reps are just one part of the evaluation process. Alex Collins didnt earn anything? How short term are peoples memories? Before Pope was even called, when the injury bug hit the RB group.. there were practices where it was basically just Collins and Cmike out there taking nearly every snap. Heavy reps. We KNOW PC values that. If youre not available, youre not useful, and if you prove youre durable thats bonus points for you.

I love Pope. Love the story. Like how he runs. On Sammy and I's podcast I even chose him over Collins.. but thats when thinking of him just in terms of isolated production. But thats not how things happen.

Imagine Rawls and CMike did go down.. who is the back who is most likely to allow the Seahawks to still be the Seahawks..? If needed to who could take 25 carries back to back weeks? Collins might be the correct answer there.

And if youre the 4th back and no one ever gets injured, youre only ever going to get 30 carries maybe. So its what else you bring to the table. Obviously the Seahawks feel Collins had more to offer outside of just the main running back role, or long term more upside. Long term its pretty hard to argue he has more potential to be a solid pass protector.

If Cmike hadnt looked so good, Pope would have made it. I dont think the Seahawks were sure Cmike would continue to learn after improving on his second term with the team last year. And maybe, thinking contract terms, the smart play was keeping Pope over Cmike actually. We will see. Im not all that worried because if anything, the last two offseasons have shown the Seahawks have improved at finding talent at running back.

 

[ACFan]

Will throw in my own few comments.

appreciate them very much.

Im not all that worried because if anything, the last two offseasons have shown the Seahawks have improved at finding talent at running back.

If/when a 100% AC and CJ get opportunities this year, I think this statement will really ring true.

 

[RichNhansom]

I am more concerned about the disregard for the defense until the last minute, but my frustration with the Pope decision is not the single player.

Yes he gives us a plan B if somehow Michael reverts back to old Michael and Tical has warned.

And he gives us another scoring option if something happens to either Rawls or Michael. But I think we would survive without him.

The issue is that in making the decision they are clearly deviating from their own blueprint. The very thing that made them good. And the reason is because they had more success so they feel more comfortable making the decision, they are the boss.

But deviating from the plan burns you pretty often, and the plan works.

So now the UDFA knows that we were blowing smoke up their *sses. It used to be a fair competition, that was the difference between us and almost every other team out there. No matter what, you beat the guy who has the draft slot, you still make the team. Most teams will put the UDFA at a disadvantage against draft picks competing for the same position.

This made the decision driver the performance, not extraneous factors that shouldn't impact the choice.

Now, we clearly rolled back to how the rest of the league does this. That means next time we want to compete for an UDFA and we try to use that line, it will get thrown back at us. We won't get first shot at the best players that did not get drafted anymore.

And we won't pick the best players from the pool anymore like we did, because we are clearly weighting factors that have nothing to do with the competition which skews the outcome.

It isn't Pope, it is also all the other guys we will lose later because of this decision - both in guys we will not get and the ones we will overlook.

6 UDFA'S made the team this year. I'd hazard to guess that is more than any other year. I don't see how the message of this offseason could possibly be that we are blowing smoke when it comes to UDFAS.

The only reason Pope was even on an NFL roster was because of injury. This is not a guy teams were trying to persuade away from other teams. Other than KC who gave him a chance during rookie mini camps and then said no thanks, he was ignored by every NFL FO through the draft and then the UDFA period. That is the only reason he was even available to begin with.

For future UDFA's seeing Pope they would also have to acknowledge that Seattle gave him a chance to showcase his talent even after everyone else said no and they went on to give him a pretty huge stage. A stage big enough that he actually landed on an NFL roster.

Like the decision or not the Seahawks actually helped their future UDFA opportunities with Pope. Not hurt it.

 

[Natethegreat]

I am more concerned about the disregard for the defense until the last minute, but my frustration with the Pope decision is not the single player.

Yes he gives us a plan B if somehow Michael reverts back to old Michael and Tical has warned.

And he gives us another scoring option if something happens to either Rawls or Michael. But I think we would survive without him.

The issue is that in making the decision they are clearly deviating from their own blueprint. The very thing that made them good. And the reason is because they had more success so they feel more comfortable making the decision, they are the boss.

But deviating from the plan burns you pretty often, and the plan works.

So now the UDFA knows that we were blowing smoke up their *sses. It used to be a fair competition, that was the difference between us and almost every other team out there. No matter what, you beat the guy who has the draft slot, you still make the team. Most teams will put the UDFA at a disadvantage against draft picks competing for the same position.

This made the decision driver the performance, not extraneous factors that shouldn't impact the choice.

Now, we clearly rolled back to how the rest of the league does this. That means next time we want to compete for an UDFA and we try to use that line, it will get thrown back at us. We won't get first shot at the best players that did not get drafted anymore.

And we won't pick the best players from the pool anymore like we did, because we are clearly weighting factors that have nothing to do with the competition which skews the outcome.

It isn't Pope, it is also all the other guys we will lose later because of this decision - both in guys we will not get and the ones we will overlook.

6 UDFA'S made the team this year. I'd hazard to guess that is more than any other year. I don't see how the message of this offseason could possibly be that we are blowing smoke when it comes to UDFAS.

The only reason Pope was even on an NFL roster was because of injury. This is not a guy teams were trying to persuade away from other teams. Other than KC who gave him a chance during rookie mini camps and then said no thanks, he was ignored by every NFL FO through the draft and then the UDFA period. That is the only reason he was even available to begin with.

For future UDFA's seeing Pope they would also have to acknowledge that Seattle gave him a chance to showcase his talent even after everyone else said no and they went on to give him a pretty huge stage. A stage big enough that he actually landed on an NFL roster.

Like the decision or not the Seahawks actually helped their future UDFA opportunities with Pope. Not hurt it.

This is exactly my thoughts as well. A guy no one was even interested in was able to land on an NFL team because of Pete and John.
This year reinforces just how advantagous it is to come as a free agent to the Seahawks and cutting Pope in no way detracts from it.
Its also why I think Pete and John seem so willing to part with late round draft picks lately. They know how attractive they are to free agents now.

 

[tom95]

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

Winner! You called that one. I thought he would end up elsewhere. Remember Rawls was a free agent too. Sometimes you find "that guy" without drafting him. Go Hawks!

 

[sam1313]

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

Winner! You called that one. I thought he would end up elsewhere. Remember Rawls was a free agent too. Sometimes you find "that guy" without drafting him. Go Hawks!

I thought he was picked up by the Jets?

 

[scutterhawk]

I am more concerned about the disregard for the defense until the last minute, but my frustration with the Pope decision is not the single player.

Yes he gives us a plan B if somehow Michael reverts back to old Michael and Tical has warned.

And he gives us another scoring option if something happens to either Rawls or Michael. But I think we would survive without him.

The issue is that in making the decision they are clearly deviating from their own blueprint. The very thing that made them good. And the reason is because they had more success so they feel more comfortable making the decision, they are the boss.

But deviating from the plan burns you pretty often, and the plan works.

So now the UDFA knows that we were blowing smoke up their *sses. It used to be a fair competition, that was the difference between us and almost every other team out there. No matter what, you beat the guy who has the draft slot, you still make the team. Most teams will put the UDFA at a disadvantage against draft picks competing for the same position.

This made the decision driver the performance, not extraneous factors that shouldn't impact the choice.

Now, we clearly rolled back to how the rest of the league does this. That means next time we want to compete for an UDFA and we try to use that line, it will get thrown back at us. We won't get first shot at the best players that did not get drafted anymore.

And we won't pick the best players from the pool anymore like we did, because we are clearly weighting factors that have nothing to do with the competition which skews the outcome.

It isn't Pope, it is also all the other guys we will lose later because of this decision - both in guys we will not get and the ones we will overlook.

6 UDFA'S made the team this year. I'd hazard to guess that is more than any other year. I don't see how the message of this offseason could possibly be that we are blowing smoke when it comes to UDFAS.

The only reason Pope was even on an NFL roster was because of injury. This is not a guy teams were trying to persuade away from other teams. Other than KC who gave him a chance during rookie mini camps and then said no thanks, he was ignored by every NFL FO through the draft and then the UDFA period. That is the only reason he was even available to begin with.

For future UDFA's seeing Pope they would also have to acknowledge that Seattle gave him a chance to showcase his talent even after everyone else said no and they went on to give him a pretty huge stage. A stage big enough that he actually landed on an NFL roster.

Like the decision or not the Seahawks actually helped their future UDFA opportunities with Pope. Not hurt it.

Pete did give Pope a shot at showing his wares ( just like he did for Rawls last Season) Pope put up as good or better numbers, and battled his ass off for a job.
The Jets were waiting and WATCHING to see who the Seahawks were going to cut loose.
If you think about it, why not let another team find or define your talent for you?....Not many Seahawk players that don't get snapped up pretty quick by other teams, not the same % numbers harvested for a lot of the other teams in the NFL.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

Winner! You called that one. I thought he would end up elsewhere. Remember Rawls was a free agent too. Sometimes you find "that guy" without drafting him. Go Hawks!

I thought he was picked up by the Jets?

He was.