Respect to RW

[semiahmoo]

Hes been playing bad this whole year. Baldwin, Lockett and Graham just made incredible catches. He is still under throwing and overthrowing balls.

Amen, passes should be perfect every time!

NO, but on target more often than not. RW has shown flashes of brilliance, but not game in game out consistency of the kind that wins Super Bowls.

He's not the problem, but right now at his level of play, he's also not able to be the solution.

 

[rcaido]

If you're allowed to trade Wilson straight up for any QB who would you trade for in this team? No one. He's top 5 & will continue to be. i dont know any qb that can even put up numbers with this pathetic o-line.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

He needs help in the offseason. Build the team around protecting him.

I hope he's not such a "nice guy" as to not demand this. Or have his agent stepping on the necessary testicles to make it happen. RW is not the same player this season, and this crappy O-line is a very big reason why.

He could help himself by doing what Brady has done for years..Take pay cuts to insure his OL is paid.He stays alive to play longer and collect more money in this way.

He just paid them more then their worth with Big Screen TV's, I think one of two things have to change, we need consistency with who plays or we adapt the scheme to a more traditional blocking scheme that we have a getter selection of players to draft and or bring in or both.

Bingo. Cable pushing round pegs into square holes rather than adjusting scheme to players.

Sent from my SC-02H using Tapatalk

 

[bigskydoc]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

 

[brimsalabim]

5 projects on the offensive line at one time.... and you wonder why the backs can't stay healthy and the QBs accuracy is a touch off?

 

[Heyseed]

The way RW comes back with 2 minutes left and never quits is amazing.
I just wish it didn't come down to a dramatic finish for almost every game.

 

[jammerhawk]

If RW had an OLine that could actually "block anything" run or pass the team would be a force. Having points as a cushion and a lead to protect w/o leaving the D on the field for the majority of the game allows the whole team to be stronger. The D is not then always forced to be a rescue unit for an inconsistently incompetent O.

Getting sacked 6 times /game and having to face running pass rushers on almost every play. Having zero run game to set up the play action pass puts incredible pressure on an O that can't convert on four downs from the 1. That series is a microcosm of the season for the O. The OLine sucks and it is hurting the team, there is no physical identity.

I have little faith now the team will win in the post season and in fact am doubtful they may even win in SF. The team has a bruised psyche as result of losses at GB, Tampa and now at home. There are a lot of bruised egos on the team and fingers are being pointed at each other when the whole group should be pulling together.

Losing your mojo as a team is a lot easier than some think, Pete's challenge will be to get them playing together as team again. The D needs it's swagger back and losing some key pieces has made it tougher for them to maintain. The O only needs a reasonably competent OLine, which has not yet shown up, to be actually quite good. As far as the ST are concerned the unit will be improved when the O improves, but there is a clear issue with the snapping and thus the hold placement.

I do give the O particular credit for their last drive, it was solid, and a credit to Wilson's will to win. It's hard to be effective with the extreme pressure opposing teams are able to put on him.

 

[scutterhawk]

Hes been playing bad this whole year. Baldwin, Lockett and Graham just made incredible catches. He is still under throwing and overthrowing balls.

Bunk ^, Baldwin is RESPONSIBLE for perfectly thrown ball bouncing off his NON-outstretched hands and into a defender that was behind him for the intercept in Green Bay...Then again NOT coming back for the ball and allowing another defender to swoop in for a second intercept in the same game....Even IF the balls were within his possible reach, it's HIS ball or NOBODY'S ball....Joe Jurevicius showed us all how that neat little concept works.
In the very SAME game, Graham slips & goes down on another PERFECTLY THROWN BALL, for a THIRD interception, a 4th ball bounced off the hands of yet another of Wilson's Receivers, yet ALL those Intercept's goes into the books as Wilson's doing....That's FOUR in that ONE game that WAS NOT because of off target passes from Russell Wilson.

 

[semiahmoo]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

Great comment and absolutely correct.

The biggest difference is Brady doesn't hold onto the ball. Drop back, throw. Drop back, throw. Everything is timed to near-perfection play after play, game after game, season after season.

RW is not close to having developed that kind of timing. He proved himself a great scrambler early on, and the coaching staff seems to have accepted they could get away with a crappy O-Line due to those scrambling abilities, and the team overall has suffered greatly for that decision.

And the one to suffer the most is Russel Wilson. The guy is spooked in the pocket these days, and I don't blame him.

Better use of Graham could have greatly reduced the stress and improved RW's timing throws. Quick out routes with big Jimmy cutting across the middle for 8-10 yard gains.

As I outlined yesterday, when JG is given a chance, the Hawks win. When Graham is for whatever odd reason frozen out of the offense, the Hawks lose:

----------------------
"Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.

It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.

When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.

If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances."
-------------------------

 

[scutterhawk]

Also, you sound ridiculously ungrateful. The man played with a near broken leg and a tear in his chest. Believe what you want I guess

EDIT: Also, in Russell's first five years than most of those Qbs produced in their first five years while getting their big payday. FYI. Do we need to re-visit Russell's career numbers?

Which means Russel needs to start acting like the franchise QB he is and demanding an offense that suits his needs/playing style. No way in hell this year's offense is doing that. At some point, if you want to be the leader of this team, you be the leader of this team, not the perpetual nice guy. Grab the front office by the balls and let them know you're not happy. Russel Wilson is the kind of guy who wants to win all the time, and be competing for a SB every season.

This year's team doesn't have that SB type of vibe.

So it's your contention that the Front Office is purposely letting Wilson take all those beatings??
Hey, maybe Russell Wilson's Agent can sift through the nation and do a better job of shitting out top grade O-Linemen & Running Backs that will play for peanut$, with the scarcity of $$$$ CAP $$$$ dollar$ at hand.
Wilson demanding, isn't going to achieve squat.
The majority of the CAP dollars are being spent on QB's & big name Defensive players across the entire League.
Playing Offense isn't sexy; They are the hit-ees and Defensive players are the hit-ers.
Think of it this way...Even the very BEST of O-Lines get beat every now & then, and their top of the line Quarterbacks get injured.....The Raiders O-Line has been rated #1, and Carr just got carted off the field with an injury.... #2 O-Line - Cowboys that everyone was drooling over, couldn't keep Defenders from getting to and injuring their Multi-Multi-Million Dollar Quarterback, so they bring in a mobile Dak Prescott, with side-kick Ezekiel Elliott, and even at that, they were getting to him for sacks, hits & hurries.

 

[scutterhawk]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

You have no proof of that, IF he played behind Wilson's 'Sieve of an O-Line, he would have LIKELY thrown the ball away a LOT more often, and he would still have been HIT & or HURRIED a lot more to boot.
Tom Brady is a good Quarterback, maybe one of the best ever to play the game, but he still makes mistakes, and he still loses games, in fact, he just lost to the Seahawks a few weeks back in HIS HOME stadium.

 

[semiahmoo]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

You have no proof of that, IF he played behind Wilson's 'Sieve of an O-Line, he would have LIKELY thrown the ball away a LOT more often, and he would still have been HIT & or HURRIED a lot more to boot.
Tom Brady is a good Quarterback, maybe one of the best ever to play the game, but he still makes mistakes, and he still loses games, in fact, he just lost to the Seahawks a few weeks back in HIS HOME stadium.

Which means there is no proof that he's wrong.

It's conjecture, which is what makes up so much of any sports franchise. Staff guess as to how players/coaches/tone/preparation/ etc will work - or not.

It's wheels within wheels, and so much of it is conjecture.

His conjecture that Tom Brady would get rid of the ball much quicker than RW and thus acquire far fewer sacks is an astute observation based upon the styles of both men and the actual time to throw and time to sack stats that were available a few years back.

 

[flmmkrz]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

You have no proof of that, IF he played behind Wilson's 'Sieve of an O-Line, he would have LIKELY thrown the ball away a LOT more often, and he would still have been HIT & or HURRIED a lot more to boot.
Tom Brady is a good Quarterback, maybe one of the best ever to play the game, but he still makes mistakes, and he still loses games, in fact, he just lost to the Seahawks a few weeks back in HIS HOME stadium.

it is not something you can go out and prove but common sense tells you that it's true.

Brady and Russ are just different qbs, Russ improvises and trusts his legs, Tom has never had mobility so he has had to rely on a quick release and if it's not there he's getting rid of it. He doesn't take a lot of abuse and a lot of sacks because of how smart he is and how well he knows his limitations, but yes his statue like movement would probably lead to more hurries but not necessarily more hits and probably more throw aways. Not that Russ isn't a heady qb but his skillset allows him the confidence to hold on to balls that other qbs would get rid of. The reality of that is he's going to take more sacks due to that but he's going to turn more of nothing into something and that is what we love about Russ. Brady isn't flawless, I don't think the poster was trying to say that just that he would take less sacks and that is likely true.

 

[scutterhawk]

If you're allowed to trade Wilson straight up for any QB who would you trade for in this team? No one. He's top 5 & will continue to be. i dont know any qb that can even put up numbers with this pathetic o-line.

TRUTH ! ^^^^^, Just think back to last mid-season and look at how he went on a tear for TD's with his Receivers, and he did it WITHOUT having the help of Marshawn Lynch, or even a so-so run game.
The O-Line was revamped in the off-season, but as it turns out?...... Not upgraded..... Wilson has taken a beating for it, and still managed to take the Seahawks to the top of the NFC WEST.

 

[Scorpion05]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

You have no proof of that, IF he played behind Wilson's 'Sieve of an O-Line, he would have LIKELY thrown the ball away a LOT more often, and he would still have been HIT & or HURRIED a lot more to boot.
Tom Brady is a good Quarterback, maybe one of the best ever to play the game, but he still makes mistakes, and he still loses games, in fact, he just lost to the Seahawks a few weeks back in HIS HOME stadium.

it is not something you can go out and prove but common sense tells you that it's true.

Brady and Russ are just different qbs, Russ improvises and trusts his legs, Tom has never had mobility so he has had to rely on a quick release and if it's not there he's getting rid of it. He doesn't take a lot of abuse and a lot of sacks because of how smart he is and how well he knows his limitations, but yes his statue like movement would probably lead to more hurries but not necessarily more hits and probably more throw aways. Not that Russ isn't a heady qb but his skillset allows him the confidence to hold on to balls that other qbs would get rid of. The reality of that is he's going to take more sacks due to that but he's going to turn more of nothing into something and that is what we love about Russ. Brady isn't flawless, I don't think the poster was trying to say that just that he would take less sacks and that is likely true.

You seriously need to watch some actual tape of Tom Brady, not just highlights. I watch Jets/Seahawks games because I live in NYC. The guy has all day to throw. When Pats fans complain about his O-line, it's because he's getting pressure that Russell Wilson would consider to be great protection. This whole quick release argument is hyperbole, and even when he does it is largely based on having a great offensive line.

Dallas plays like New England using the short passing game, because they can. Ironically you NEED a great o-line for a short quick passing game. If it was this simplistic everyone would do it

 

[semiahmoo]

it is not something you can go out and prove but common sense tells you that it's true.

Brady and Russ are just different qbs, Russ improvises and trusts his legs, Tom has never had mobility so he has had to rely on a quick release and if it's not there he's getting rid of it. He doesn't take a lot of abuse and a lot of sacks because of how smart he is and how well he knows his limitations, but yes his statue like movement would probably lead to more hurries but not necessarily more hits and probably more throw aways. Not that Russ isn't a heady qb but his skillset allows him the confidence to hold on to balls that other qbs would get rid of. The reality of that is he's going to take more sacks due to that but he's going to turn more of nothing into something and that is what we love about Russ. Brady isn't flawless, I don't think the poster was trying to say that just that he would take less sacks and that is likely true.[/quote]

You seriously need to watch some actual tape of Tom Brady, not just highlights. I watch Jets/Seahawks games because I live in NYC. The guy has all day to throw. When Pats fans complain about his O-line, it's because he's getting pressure that Russell Wilson would consider to be great protection. This whole quick release argument is hyperbole, and even when he does it is largely based on having a great offensive line.

Dallas plays like New England using the short passing game, because they can. Ironically you NEED a great o-line for a short quick passing game. If it was this simplistic everyone would do it[/quote]

Actually, it's not hyperbole.

RW holds the ball longer than Brady. What is remarkable is that despite his higher % of throw-a-ways, Brady is also among the higher pass completion guys in the league, which is what makes him so damn good.

RW will never be that kind of QB, but he could be a very good one if given a little more time in the pocket which in turn would do wonders for his confidence which has been clearly shaken this season.

 

[flmmkrz]

Put Tom Brady behind this line and see how long he lasts.

He would have had less than half the number of sacks that Russ took this year.

You have no proof of that, IF he played behind Wilson's 'Sieve of an O-Line, he would have LIKELY thrown the ball away a LOT more often, and he would still have been HIT & or HURRIED a lot more to boot.
Tom Brady is a good Quarterback, maybe one of the best ever to play the game, but he still makes mistakes, and he still loses games, in fact, he just lost to the Seahawks a few weeks back in HIS HOME stadium.

You seriously need to watch some actual tape of Tom Brady, not just highlights. I watch Jets/Seahawks games because I live in NYC. The guy has all day to throw. When Pats fans complain about his O-line, it's because he's getting pressure that Russell Wilson would consider to be great protection. This whole quick release argument is hyperbole, and even when he does it is largely based on having a great offensive line.

Dallas plays like New England using the short passing game, because they can. Ironically you NEED a great o-line for a short quick passing game. If it was this simplistic everyone would do it

yeah bro you're the only guy with a tv and an nfl package that sits and watches anybody other than the hawks in here while the rest of us just catch sports center. You seriously need to understand what you are watching rather than just blankly staring at the screen and thinking well he's not getting touched so that means he's got all day, you might want to take into account why he's not getting touched and the part he plays in that. During the superbowl victory vs us he averaged just a touch over 2 seconds from snap to release. There was a reason he was picking us apart and we weren't getting him on his ass. He was quick, decisive and accurate. A deadly combination and that is what makes him great. Last year only Andy Dalton had a quicker release league wide and by .04 seconds. From snap to release 2.24 seconds. If he is taking all day based on your less than astute observations why is it not translating to the actual amount of time he's holding on to the ball, why was he the 2nd quickest to get the ball out of his hands if there was nobody near him most of the time. It makes no sense, a qb isn't rushing the ball out of his hands unless he has to or there is an obvious opening and he isn't finding an obvious opening on every snap...Truth is his line is average at best, Dallas has an outstanding line but NE is just a solid line middle of the pack that looks above average because their qb gets the ball out asap. That is just fact. There is no hyperbole about his release, the numbers just say otherwise, so i'm not sure what you're watching.

 

[randomation]

Honestly I would rather have an okay D and a top 10 line at this point Russ's growth is getting stunted by these traffic cones and it just isn't acceptable.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

O-Line was horrible, he still seems like he's playing hurt/slower, whatever, but the guy is a warrior and almost pulled the proverbial cat out of the bag today.

People might fault some of his reactions/holding the ball too long/physical limitations, etc., but there can be no faulting Russel Wilson's heart and dedication to doing everything he can to win.

Give the guy a decent O-Line/running game, and he could take a team to the promised land once again.

Just don't think it'll be this year...

Wilson has done this for five straight years now.

There has not been one year that you guys have been satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. Not one. Whether it was just mediocre protection or truly bad protection that taught you guys what mediocre really looks like, people have always bemoaned his O-line. Yet he has continually succeeded.

 

[chris98251]

O-Line was horrible, he still seems like he's playing hurt/slower, whatever, but the guy is a warrior and almost pulled the proverbial cat out of the bag today.

People might fault some of his reactions/holding the ball too long/physical limitations, etc., but there can be no faulting Russel Wilson's heart and dedication to doing everything he can to win.

Give the guy a decent O-Line/running game, and he could take a team to the promised land once again.

Just don't think it'll be this year...

Wilson has done this for five straight years now.

There has not been one year that you guys have been satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. Not one. Whether it was just mediocre protection or truly bad protection that taught you guys what mediocre really looks like, people have always bemoaned his O-line. Yet he has continually succeeded.

Until that break down injured him, he is also now getting into that point in life where metabolism slows down and he isn't that kid, he is going to put a bit of weight on and start losing that youthful speed and will need to rely on avoidance on his scrambles and getting the ball down field versus the run for a first down.