Seahawks Trade for Eagles Tackle Tobin

[kidhawk]

Neither of these two signings are long term guaranteed contracts. We can cut either player if better options come available after final cutdowns.

It's about getting bodies in camp, ramped up and ready for the regular season so you have competition and depth, and more importantly depth that is ready to fill in if needed.

EXACTLY!!! I don't understand the thought process of waiting for cuts....this would mean we sit on our hands and do nothing for two weeks. What we have done is brought in two guys to compete and add depth. If anyone better is cut later, we can still pick them up. Seems crazy not to do as much as possible when you are talking about the most glaring weakness on a team.

"The most glaring weakness on the team" was inherited from last season for the most part. If it is still after just one injury to a basketball player, then not enough was done when we had the chance (or what was done was largely ineffective)

What is not to understand on those who say wait?

It is like a sale. Do you pay full price today, or wait for the sale that is 2 weeks away? Either scenario, you pay the panic premium.

You seem to conflict yourself within the same post.

On one hand, the team isn't doing enough to improve the line.

Then on the other hand, they should do less to improve the line by doing nothing for two weeks and wait for the cuts, instead of bringing in a few new guys now while STILL being able to sign cut players later.

This is why I don't understand the logic. Either we need to do more because it's important to the team's success, or it isn't that big a deal and we should wait for two weeks and hope for the best.

Which is it?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It is like a sale. Do you pay full price today, or wait for the sale that is 2 weeks away? Either scenario, you pay the panic premium.

What if the sale never comes?

You do both, that way you have the security of depth already in camp.

btw, we still have two more pre-season games and the rest of camp to get through. Are you OK with overplaying our O-line with two less subs just because you didn't want to commit to these two new guys?

Makes no sense dude. You gotta have bodies, I'm fine with what we've done to fill the holes. If someone better comes along, no reason we can't sign them and cut someone else.

 

[Seymour]

LMAO. Holmgren on 950 was asked about his opinion on the Oline issue this morning....

His answer was...."I't's kinda like groundhogs day". :mrgreen: :twisted:

Touche' Mike!

 

[kidhawk]

LMAO. Holmgren on 950 was asked about his opinion on the Oline issue this morning....

His answer was...."I't's kinda like groundhogs day". :mrgreen: :twisted:

Touche' Mike!

That's pretty funny

 

[Seymour]

It is like a sale. Do you pay full price today, or wait for the sale that is 2 weeks away? Either scenario, you pay the panic premium.

What if the sale never comes?

You do both, that way you have the security of depth already in camp.

btw, we still have two more pre-season games and the rest of camp to get through. Are you OK with overplaying our O-line with two less subs just because you didn't want to commit to these two new guys?

Makes no sense dude. You gotta have bodies, I'm fine with what we've done to fill the holes. If someone better comes along, no reason we can't sign them and cut someone else.

How many moves has Cable / Pete made on the Oline in the last 2-3 years? How many have been effective?

This is just another scrub / blind dart. I have zero faith, so I want it to cost the least in other areas possible.

THE END.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It is like a sale. Do you pay full price today, or wait for the sale that is 2 weeks away? Either scenario, you pay the panic premium.

What if the sale never comes?

You do both, that way you have the security of depth already in camp.

btw, we still have two more pre-season games and the rest of camp to get through. Are you OK with overplaying our O-line with two less subs just because you didn't want to commit to these two new guys?

Makes no sense dude. You gotta have bodies, I'm fine with what we've done to fill the holes. If someone better comes along, no reason we can't sign them and cut someone else.

How many moves has Cable / Pete made on the Oline in the last 2-3 years? How many have been effective?

This is just another scrub / blind dart. I have zero faith, so I want it to cost the least in other areas possible.

THE END.

You're having a different conversation. You specifically criticized these two moves to replace our injured lineman, and now you want to have a conversation about the entire process of drafting and signing O-lineman.

I agree with you on the bigger conversation, I've been critical of our bargain basement shopping and development of O-lineman for five years.

But these two specific signings? There ain't anything better out there TODAY, and there probably won't be anything better out there in two weeks........and if there is? Nothing we did yesterday would prevent us from grabbing other lineman.

 

[Seymour]

It is like a sale. Do you pay full price today, or wait for the sale that is 2 weeks away? Either scenario, you pay the panic premium.

What if the sale never comes?

You do both, that way you have the security of depth already in camp.

btw, we still have two more pre-season games and the rest of camp to get through. Are you OK with overplaying our O-line with two less subs just because you didn't want to commit to these two new guys?

Makes no sense dude. You gotta have bodies, I'm fine with what we've done to fill the holes. If someone better comes along, no reason we can't sign them and cut someone else.

How many moves has Cable / Pete made on the Oline in the last 2-3 years? How many have been effective?

This is just another scrub / blind dart. I have zero faith, so I want it to cost the least in other areas possible.

THE END.

You're having a different conversation. You specifically criticized these two moves to replace our injured lineman, and now you want to have a conversation about the entire process of drafting and signing O-lineman.

I agree with you on the bigger conversation, I've been critical of our bargain basement shopping and development of O-lineman for five years.

But these two specific signings? There ain't anything better out there TODAY, and there probably won't be anything better out there in two weeks........and if there is? Nothing we did yesterday would prevent us from grabbing other lineman.

Not really.
I'm giving background on why the sale likely doesn't even matter if you are never going to wear that item. So spend the least IMO.

 

[kidhawk]

Not really.
I'm giving background on why the sale likely doesn't even matter if you are never going to wear that item. So spend the least IMO.

As was pointed out before, the value between the picks we traded is minimal. We didn't give up a draft choice, we just swapped where we select that choice at. The price was as low as you can get for what's available out there. We are partially paying to get the body into camp now. If he's going to be effective at all, even as depth, he's going to need some time on the field with his teammates. Do you think seeing him screw up in the preseason and not the regular season is worth swapping late round choices?

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

What if the sale never comes?

You do both, that way you have the security of depth already in camp.

btw, we still have two more pre-season games and the rest of camp to get through. Are you OK with overplaying our O-line with two less subs just because you didn't want to commit to these two new guys?

Makes no sense dude. You gotta have bodies, I'm fine with what we've done to fill the holes. If someone better comes along, no reason we can't sign them and cut someone else.

How many moves has Cable / Pete made on the Oline in the last 2-3 years? How many have been effective?

This is just another scrub / blind dart. I have zero faith, so I want it to cost the least in other areas possible.

THE END.

You're having a different conversation. You specifically criticized these two moves to replace our injured lineman, and now you want to have a conversation about the entire process of drafting and signing O-lineman.

I agree with you on the bigger conversation, I've been critical of our bargain basement shopping and development of O-lineman for five years.

But these two specific signings? There ain't anything better out there TODAY, and there probably won't be anything better out there in two weeks........and if there is? Nothing we did yesterday would prevent us from grabbing other lineman.

Not really.
I'm giving background on why the sale likely doesn't even matter if you are never going to wear that item. So spend the least IMO.

Did you watch the video at all of him filling in at LT for the Eagles? He did pretty well.

 

[scutterhawk]

Giving up draft choices for longshots is just plain silly.....and desperate.

From Rotoworld.....

Seattle is scrambling for tackle options after losing George Fant. Tobin started at right guard for the 2015 Eagles, showing promise as a run blocker but getting destroyed in pass protection. He was demoted into a deep reserve role last season. Tobin should only be viewed as depth for the Seahawks.

ukeface:

We lost a starter on an already weak to average Offensive line. There are very few options available. It's not like anyone is overly stacked on backup linemen who can start at the NFL level and are willing to part with them.

Exactly.
Seahawks HAVE TO do something to stop the bleeding.

 

[Seymour]

Not really.
I'm giving background on why the sale likely doesn't even matter if you are never going to wear that item. So spend the least IMO.

As was pointed out before, the value between the picks we traded is minimal. We didn't give up a draft choice, we just swapped where we select that choice at. The price was as low as you can get for what's available out there. We are partially paying to get the body into camp now. If he's going to be effective at all, even as depth, he's going to need some time on the field with his teammates. Do you think seeing him screw up in the preseason and not the regular season is worth swapping late round choices?

OK then. I'll admit I'm over reacting and really feel this season hinges on an oline improvement that appears to be a pipe dream with Cable in charge and am disappointed in this whole mess that holds us back like a boat anchor.

Better?

 

[Seymour]

How many moves has Cable / Pete made on the Oline in the last 2-3 years? How many have been effective?

This is just another scrub / blind dart. I have zero faith, so I want it to cost the least in other areas possible.

THE END.

You're having a different conversation. You specifically criticized these two moves to replace our injured lineman, and now you want to have a conversation about the entire process of drafting and signing O-lineman.

I agree with you on the bigger conversation, I've been critical of our bargain basement shopping and development of O-lineman for five years.

But these two specific signings? There ain't anything better out there TODAY, and there probably won't be anything better out there in two weeks........and if there is? Nothing we did yesterday would prevent us from grabbing other lineman.

Not really.
I'm giving background on why the sale likely doesn't even matter if you are never going to wear that item. So spend the least IMO.

Did you watch the video at all of him filling in at LT for the Eagles? He did pretty well.

Yes. It was good to see, thanks to who posted that.

I still wonder why 95% of what I've heard completely contradicts that though. :?: :?:

 

[mikeak]

To me he doesn't change the overall feeling of the O-line

There is still disappointment that Fant went down as he looked better

Me and several others pointed out that part of the problem last year was a complete lack of depth (which is why Fant played last year). So as much as they may have tried they did fail to address it when one injury makes them trade for a guy that is on 6 teams in 3 years

Doesn't mean we don't all root for the guy. I ALWAYS hope I am wrong when I don't think someone will work out for the Seahawks. It is just concerning that we find ourselves right back at this same spot for what the third year in a row? For what people call the best FO in the league something really isn't working / clicking when it comes to getting a decent o-line.

You got to have backups, you will lose starters.

The price as said is not very much - worth kicking the tires if you believe in him, but you can't do this 10 times and get rid of 10 guys........ I remember people being so PROUD of the FO when they kept moving down in the draft. Then suddenly it was so SMART, SKILLED, TAKING ADVANTAGE by the FO to move down and get these 5th round picks because they had so much VALUE. And instead we got no 1st round pick, a second rounder that is proving people right and a bunch of lower round picks that we can trade for guys that - "hey why not we aren't giving anything up"

Just remember come April and they move down again that people said that lower round picks aren't really worth very much... Can't have it both ways

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I still wonder why 95% of what I've heard completely contradicts that though. :?: :?:

Because most of it is true.

It's late August in the NFL, if these guys aren't already on a roster, or higher up the depth chart in Tobin's case, then yeah they're probably not very good.

But that was my very first point, neither of these guys are going to start (hopefully). They're depth to get through the rest of camp and enter the season with some assemblence of a cohesive O-line.

Our other option is to not sign anybody and shuffle guys around on the line, which IMO would make the line even worse than just plugging Pocic and/or Odhiambo in at LT. Then you're weakening multiple positions, instead of just one.

Bottom line, it's turd sammich any way you want to cut it. There is no "right" way to do it, other than what we did, get some fresh bodies in here.

 

[nanomoz]

The Keary Colbert trade was a bad desperation move.

This seems like a good trade. A late-round pick swap and we get a dude with starting experience at multiple positions.

It might have less to do with the Fant injury and more to do with a sense of unease about the competition in the right side.

 

[kidhawk]

Yes. It was good to see, thanks to who posted that.

I still wonder why 95% of what I've heard completely contradicts that though. :?: :?:

We have to remember, this guy is a young undrafted free agent. I think he's had 4 seasons in total in the league. Most of them as a backup. Offensive line players often take time to develop. It's not completely impossible that he's just getting to the point where the game is starting to slow down for him. It's impossible to tell. The only thing I know for certain is that sure fire starters are rarely released or traded until they've passed their prime, so we are most likely going to have to make do.

I don't know if this guy will ever be more than a reserve type player, but at least they are doing something with very minimal costs. Add to that, the fact that we can still try to sign any player released after the preseason, and it's a no brainer IMO.

Also, we have to remember that trades and such are not happening in isolation. We traded a 6th for a 5th to give up Lynch's rights (basically a freebie), and we have now traded a 5 for a 7th for Tobin. So far this offseason, we have given up and received a fifth rounder, given up a sixth and received a seventh, so all in all, we've given up Lynch's rights (which we were never going to keep) and picked up an O-lineman who can at least be depth at multiple positions and all we have done is moved our 6th round pick down to the 7th round.

 

[scutterhawk]

I get the whole need thing, but how can this guy be better than Obi or Pocic at tackle? He has not even played tackle in the NFL nearest I can tell just guard. We have enough guards already. Welcome to the grand giveaway..... :roll:

LOLOL Perhaps you can break out the Windex and clear up the options window for John Schneider & Co.
IF we put in "Pocic or Obi", who is going to be the backup player?...We can't run around during regular Season without a spare tire.
Is Tobin the optimal choice?, hell no....... but as of right now, seems like he's our ONLY CHOICE.

 

[kidhawk]

Just remember come April and they move down again that people said that lower round picks aren't really worth very much... Can't have it both ways

Not to swing too far off topic here, but there is a huge difference.....we didn't lose a pick, we just moved where we drafted. If you want to get gems in the later rounds, you usually need to have multiple picks. This is the system that John has used to draft later round guys successfully. We also bring in lots of undrafted guys and see which ones are worth keeping.

In this particular instance, we didn't even lose a quantity of players. all we did was move back in the draft some. The talent drop-off between this picks isn't all that much.

When we trade back from early round picks, we almost always GAIN extra picks, which is extra players, which means we are now increasing our odds of finding one later round guy that can stick.

 

[Seymour]

I still wonder why 95% of what I've heard completely contradicts that though. :?: :?:

Because most of it is true.

It's late August in the NFL, if these guys aren't already on a roster, or higher up the depth chart in Tobin's case, then yeah they're probably not very good.

But that was my very first point, neither of these guys are going to start (hopefully). They're depth to get through the rest of camp and enter the season with some assemblence of a cohesive O-line.

Our other option is to not sign anybody and shuffle guys around on the line, which IMO would make the line even worse than just plugging Pocic and/or Odhiambo in at LT. Then you're weakening multiple positions, instead of just one.

Bottom line, it's turd sammich any way you want to cut it. There is no "right" way to do it, other than what we did, get some fresh bodies in here.

A problem of this magnitude should include a possible player trade. Here is a list of players I would consider.

Kease
Lane
Procise
Collins
Richardson (like him but fragile and Lockett is similar)
Willson
Ifedi (replace with Pocic)
Graham (like him but not getting the value in red zone)
Williams (value may be somewhat low still, but Russell will not risk those contested throws in real games IMO--see Graham)

 

[DJrmb]

We have to remember, this guy is a young undrafted free agent. I think he's had 4 seasons in total in the league. Most of them as a backup. Offensive line players often take time to develop. It's not completely impossible that he's just getting to the point where the game is starting to slow down for him. It's impossible to tell. The only thing I know for certain is that sure fire starters are rarely released or traded until they've passed their prime, so we are most likely going to have to make do.

I don't know if this guy will ever be more than a reserve type player, but at least they are doing something with very minimal costs. Add to that, the fact that we can still try to sign any player released after the preseason, and it's a no brainer IMO.

Also, we have to remember that trades and such are not happening in isolation. We traded a 6th for a 5th to give up Lynch's rights (basically a freebie), and we have now traded a 5 for a 7th for Tobin. So far this offseason, we have given up and received a fifth rounder, given up a sixth and received a seventh, so all in all, we've given up Lynch's rights (which we were never going to keep) and picked up an O-lineman who can at least be depth at multiple positions and all we have done is moved our 6th round pick down to the 7th round.

He was also good enough to make a team with one of the better o-lines in the league, stick on the team, be seen as a potential starter on that team, and be resigned after his initial contract ended. Clearly there is some talent there. Maybe he's a late bloomer, or maybe he'll never put it all together but a swap of late round picks for a Whopping trade value of 20 whole points is not giving up much of anything to add some depth to a unit that needs it, and see what you can do with a guy that's currently trending up and might be finally putting it all together.

It took Britt a while too, good thing our coaches were smarter than many here or he'd be playing Pro Bowl level Center for another team...