This weeks Fire Bevell Thread

[Largent80]

So the balls hitting Kearse, Baldwin, and Willson in their hands were invisible?

I saw them, and I saw them dropped.

 

[Ozzy]

He does take those throws and more often than not our receivers drop the ball or lose their battles. How many dropped balls have we had? Hard to blame him for being a little gun shy when our guys aren't finishing the plays. Part of the problem is that we don't have a real physical WR who is capable of winning contested plays. Kearse has flashed it but has struggled with drops too. I guess we see it differently and I could be wrong. Wilson threw a contested ball in the end zone only to have it dropped by Baldwin. Kearse dropped one. Willson dropped two yesterday. They need to start winning their matchups.

 

[DavidSeven]

I agree that our receivers are part of the problem, though not the entire problem. Golden Tate is playing like a top 5 WR on a different team. He vanished in several games last year and was continually blasted for not getting separation. He didn't suddenly get that much more talented this year.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Russell didn't play well.

Is that on the OC? Maybe. But Russell isn't utilizing his receivers. Hasn't done so all year. Maybe that's a playcalling issue; maybe it's a protection issue; maybe it's a WR talent issue; maybe it's QB issue. Dallas, just like Arizona last year, gave Russell one-on-ones in coverage all day long. Seattle couldn't capitalize.

Sending Harvin on go-routes all game long isn't going to miraculously fix this offense. He isn't a go-route receiver and never has been.

We need to make teams pay for one-on-one coverage. That will take a defender out of the box.

Russell needs to complete some real NFL throws. Bottom line. Putting it all at Bevell's feet still isn't addressing the heart of the issue.

Russell is not the problem here... All year our receivers have failed to get separation, all year they have failed to catch contested balls. We do not have a big bodied receiver that can come down with contested balls, nor are any of our receivers great at running routes except Baldwin. Simply put, we do not HAVE the wide receivers to take advantage of.

Harvin confuses the hell out of me. Why is he sitting on the bench as much as he is? We paid millions, and spent a first on the guy, yet he spends half the game on the bench. We're using him like a glorified change of pace back, which is perplexing me.

Aside from Harvin our receivers are all number 3's and 4's on most teams. Baldwin, our most consistent receiver is nothing more than a slot guy. Kearse does not have have the ability to beat starting corners consistently, and Walters should not even be on the roster.

The Cowboys ran one on one coverage because they could get away with it. If you look at the tape none of our guys are getting open even in one on one coverage. Combine that with piss poor play calling, and a line that let pass rushers in Russell's face almost immediately and you got a recipe for disaster. You cannot expect Russell to thrive in a situation like that.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I agree that our receivers are part of the problem, though not the entire problem. Golden Tate is playing like a top 5 WR on a different team. He vanished in several games last year and was continually blasted for not getting separation. He didn't suddenly get that much more talented this year.

Golden Tate is getting volume statistics. Right now he has 38 receptions which is half of his highest total in Seattle on 53 targets which is just over half of his 2013 targets in just 6 games. Tate also plays next to a guy named Calvin Johnson who happens to draw coverage away from Tate. In 2013 Tate was drawing most of the coverage, because he was really the only guy we had that could play on the outside, or make contested balls consistently.

 

[Largent80]

Tate isn't even part of the discussion because he plays on a different team with a completely different offense. One of the reasons he left was to get more balls thrown his way.

I want to know. Is Richardson considered garbage to the point of Walters being used at WR?

I saw Richardson getting separation in the pre season games, and he is inactive?

 

[DavidSeven]

I agree that our receivers are part of the problem, though not the entire problem. Golden Tate is playing like a top 5 WR on a different team. He vanished in several games last year and was continually blasted for not getting separation. He didn't suddenly get that much more talented this year.

Golden Tate is getting volume statistics. Right now he has 38 receptions which is half of his highest total in Seattle on 53 targets which is just over half of his 2013 targets in just 6 games. Tate also plays next to a guy named Calvin Johnson who happens to draw coverage away from Tate. In 2013 Tate was drawing most of the coverage, because he was really the only guy we had that could play on the outside, or make contested balls consistently.

Calvin Johnson has been hobbled with an ankle injury and has missed chunks (or all) of the last three games. Tate has been their de facto #1 WR for at least the last three weeks.

Volume is part philosophy, part a willingness of the QB to get the ball down the field. This team loses targets because the ball is frequently pulled down for a QB run or a checkdown. That's why our receivers are disappearing. Within the current philosophy, there is room WRs to put up some numbers. The QB needs to get them the ball, and they need to get open.

 

[HansGruber]

I felt like I was watching a 10 year old play Madden. Seriously.

Darrell Bevell is garbage. That was a garbage game plan. You don't ignore a RB averaging 6.9 yards per carry. Every time Lynch ran the ball, he was exposing that Dallas defense. Even on those carries where he was getting hit behind the line, he was still getting 1-2 yards. You give Lynch 15 more carries in that game, and it's over.

Arrrr.

 

[Largent80]

Normally dropped passes usually are relegated to one player. yesterday it was a team wide problem.

Hell, Maxwell dropped a sure pick 6 and 4 seconds after he dropped it they score a TD.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Bevell reminds me of Dave Kreig. When he is hot, he is unbeatable. When he is cold, you wonder how the guy has a job.

And he really hasn't been "hot" since the opener.

The league has caught up to him and this gimmicky offense he's running. It caught the Packers off guard cause there was no film.. it sort of worked against the Chargers but our defense couldn't get off the field..

But aside from a couple drives against the Broncos and Redskins.. the offense has been complete and total crap

 

[Spin Doctor]

I agree that our receivers are part of the problem, though not the entire problem. Golden Tate is playing like a top 5 WR on a different team. He vanished in several games last year and was continually blasted for not getting separation. He didn't suddenly get that much more talented this year.

Golden Tate is getting volume statistics. Right now he has 38 receptions which is half of his highest total in Seattle on 53 targets which is just over half of his 2013 targets in just 6 games. Tate also plays next to a guy named Calvin Johnson who happens to draw coverage away from Tate. In 2013 Tate was drawing most of the coverage, because he was really the only guy we had that could play on the outside, or make contested balls consistently.

Calvin Johnson has been hobbled with an ankle injury and has missed chunks (or all) of the last three games. Tate has been their de facto #1 WR for at least the last three weeks.

Volume is part philosophy, part a willingness of the QB to get the ball down the field. This team loses targets because the ball is frequently pulled down for a QB run or a checkdown. That's why our receivers are disappearing. Within the current philosophy, there is room WRs to put up some numbers. The QB needs to get them the ball, and they need to get open.

Within our current philosophy there is no room to put up the numbers. We are running a college offense right now that is predicated upon options, and slants, hooks, and checkdowns and is completely reliant upon miss-direction. Where we are right now is a direct result of the receivers, and the game planning. Russell Wilson is fine as a player, in fact without him we would have even less production with the O-Line we have now.

Remember this, in order to get balls down the field Russell needs protection. It is unrealistic to expect what you're expecting from Russell with a poor game plan, poor receivers, and poor line.

 

[MysterMatt]

There are lots of factors at play, with few of us here able to evaluate them all, but clearly yesterday was a team loss. I can give the defense a teensy bit of a pass, only because they found a way to slow down the Dallas offense a little bit in the second half and give our O a chance to score points. I'm not saying they're without faults at all, but IMO they weren't the overall culprit. In terms of responsibility for the loss, I'd say they're 40%.

Sadly, the offense just isn't scoring points. 3 in the first half? 13 in the second (7 off of a turnover)? That's simply unacceptable. I saw poor OL play (Okung in particular), receivers who couldn't haul in a single damn contested pass, and a QB who was just...off. On top of all that, I saw a running game that looked to be effective and a OC that refused to use it.

I don't necessarily fall into the "Fire Bevell" camp, but for years we've seen these phases where he becomes obsessed with cute plays as a FEATURE of the game plan instead of sticking with the fundamentals at which we actually are pretty damned good. If we win, all is forgiven, but now that our defense cannot be relied upon to keep the opposition to 17 points, he has to do better. If I hear the phrase "bubble screen" one more fracking time I'm going to scream if it isn't immediately followed by "touchdown, Seahawks!".

So, maybe, as Brock has suggested, we use Harvin more out of the slot as an actual receiver? Didn't he make a 40 yard TD (called back) against Washington? Can't we use him in crossing patterns or Go routes? Perhaps we should open up the competition a little more for Richardson and Norwood? If Kearse and Lockette aren't getting the job done, maybe they shouldn't be on the field? I can't help but wonder if using Harvin as an actual receiver might loosen things up a bit elsewhere, but what do I know?

And Russell? I love the kid, I do, but if he wants longevity in this game he has simply got to work on finding receivers quickly and not rely on his legs. It's great that he's in the office early each morning, but maybe for a little while he should limit some of his other activities and focus on game prep and sleep. Just a thought...he's still a young man and maybe he's a bit distracted.

My point, really, is that while Bevell's game plan was dreadful yesterday, most of our problems have solutions that can be implemented immediately. Sorry for the slightly rambling rant.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Brock said after watching the game tape that the receivers flat out didn't win the individual matchups on the outside and were consistently losing to the DB's. I think Wilson can play better but if the WR's can't win the one on one matchups it doesn't matter who is throwing the football. He also put some balls on the money in tight coverage(again not winning the one on one) only to have the passes dropped. How is this on Wilson?

Can he play better? Of course. He is far from the problem in my opinion.

Simple. Wilson just needs to throw the ball so hard that it gets buried in the freaking receivers chests and sends them flying toward the freaking end zone. He then needs to kick Okung in the ass each time that idiot moves before the ball is snapped. Finally, he needs to tell Pete to Fire Bevell and replace the OC with a Microsoft Surface pro coordinator robot. WIN Forever y'a!!

 

[twisted_steel2]

I have stayed out of the Bevell threads for about a year, but this makes me want to puke. Harvin is the fastest guy in the NFL, and he hasn't ran a WR route in weeks. Everybody knows RW is throwing a screen or it's a fly sweep. We had three 1st downs in the 1st half?


Bevell reminds me of Dave Kreig. When he is hot, he is unbeatable. When he is cold, you wonder how the guy has a job.

If Bevell had a hot Dave Kreig, he'd call for a run on every play.

haha, bravo sir! :th2thumbs:

 

[Sarlacc83]

The thing which worries me is receiver size. I thought about it a bit before the season started and kind of blew it off in my own mind
Shouldn't have.

Bigger, faster, stronger only hits 1 of the 3. Meanwhile Dallas trots out 2 big 6'2 receivers and a 6'6 Jason Witten. Our tallest active receiver is...Kearse? Edit: Lockette is 6'2 I guess.

 

[pehawk]

The thing which worries me is receiver size. I thought about it a bit before the season started and kind of blew it off in my own mind
Shouldn't have.

Bigger, faster, stronger only hits 1 of the 3. Meanwhile Dallas trots out 2 big 6'2 receivers and a 6'6 Jason Witten. Our tallest active receiver is...Kearse?

Norwood was suppose to be the antidote here. He was to be the one "just add water" WR in the draft. Richardson was also suppose to help by making sure his speed is accounted for.

It's just a really bizarre use of personnel, IMO.

 

[gabel]

Remember when all the out town announcers were telling us that Bevell was as good as gone. Leaving to become a head coach somewhere else.

I don't think this is as simple as firing the offensive coordinator. I think it's the whole football philosophy of Coach Carroll (who we all love). It's run at all costs with heavy heavy input from the Offensive line coach. Tough to argue when we have a Super bowl trophy. I am sure Bevell can remember what happened to the last offensive coordinator who tried to open it up more (gonezo). Scoring basically only 3 points against that middle road defense indicates changes have to be made.

There is a new way of attacking the offense that I believe was started by Arizona last year. Send the ends super wide to preventing Russell Wilson from scrambling and leave a lot players in the box to slow down the running game. If the front 7 are a physical group this is hugely successful. I love Russell Wilson but in my opinion he is part of the problem. As a quarterback he is the best scrambler but as a passer he is average. Making him beat you with deeper throws seems to be a winning formula. Wilson had lots of time to throw against Dallas someone should have been open. The end of the game reminded me so much of the San Diego game. He just could not make the throws when the down and outs routes were covered. How many throws have been over 15 yards this year?? I think a player like Kearse who can find a crease in zone coverage has a hard time beating man. I also wasn't a fan of Ryan Walters getting so much playing time.

To make matters worse Golden Tate is looking so much better playing for Detroit then he did last year. And we all know that Percy Harvin and Doug Baldwin can get open and make tough catches. Part of the problem is the play calling and play design before the game. Both issues I feel are Bevell's responsibility. At the same time I think the team will adjust. Nothing spurs on change like yesterday's ugliness.

 

[HansGruber]

If Russell Wilson had one actual NFL-caliber receiver to whom he could throw the ball, he would be fantastic from the pocket. I can't even imagine how he'd look with a WR corps like those in Denver, Atlanta, Arizona, heck... even SF has a far better WR corps.

Frankly, our OL and WR corps suck. Just straight-up suck out loud. There isn't a single #1 WR on the team, these guys couldn't even be #1s in college ball. It's the same story with the OL. Those guys couldn't get starting jobs on college teams right now. Okung has just been outrageously bad. It's hard to watch.

 

[Largent80]

You know what Hans. Every year I start an O-Line thread because I know after playing and watching football that a good offense needs one. Yeah SB's have been won with mediocre ones but those teams had many stars at skill positions.

This year I was blown away with the responses of how nobody is worried and we are set. Yesterday was absolute proof of what a good O-Line can do for your team.

Dallass' line did exactly what they wanted. Ran when they wanted. Passed when they wanted and completely took our D-Line out of the game. In the meantime the one positive we have on O this year is running the ball but did we do it?

Hell no, instead, we try all this college crap against a good team, and the result is all of us are in here debating all this shit.

Bevell is not ever going to get fired. Pete should be on the hot seat if this team continues this misuse of players. He is responsible for his coaches as well.

 

[Hawknballs]

I'm all aboard the fire Bevell train. It's not my MO to get that extreme but these games he's 'calling' are a waste of talent. you run marshawn lynch 2 times or so in the first half?

This team is trying to be too cute. If you can't line up and play football don't bother. You have Marshawn lynch and your oline isn't playing well - so you run Harvin? Uh. You're an idiot.

This whole season so far has been baffling from the offensive play call perspective. LIke the fly sweep on your own 11 when you need a TD to win the game in san diego. Really? Not the time to get cute.