This weeks Fire Bevell Thread

[LickMyNuts]

It's nice to have a dominant offensive line but it doesn't win you anything. It didn't win a Super Bowl for Frisco. I'm struggling to find a Super Bowl winner with a dominant offensive line since the '96 Cowboys. The Steelers had pretty decent offensive lines. But I don't think they were dominant.

You know what Hans. Every year I start an O-Line thread because I know after playing and watching football that a good offense needs one. Yeah SB's have been won with mediocre ones but those teams had many stars at skill positions.

This year I was blown away with the responses of how nobody is worried and we are set. Yesterday was absolute proof of what a good O-Line can do for your team.

Dallass' line did exactly what they wanted. Ran when they wanted. Passed when they wanted and completely took our D-Line out of the game. In the meantime the one positive we have on O this year is running the ball but did we do it?

Hell no, instead, we try all this college crap against a good team, and the result is all of us are in here debating all this shit.

Bevell is not ever going to get fired. Pete should be on the hot seat if this team continues this misuse of players. He is responsible for his coaches as well.

 

[fenderbender123]

I sure hope Bevell reads these threads so he can learn a thing or two about play calling.

 

[Hendo66]

I'm sure there are lots of factors contributing to the poor play but one has to agree there is way to much razzle dazzle
In the play calling. And how about that Harvin run up the middle in the second half? Put him in motion and slam him up the gut where all the big bodies are. Wow-

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, this week, it's warranted.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Sending Harvin on go-routes all game long isn't going to miraculously fix this offense. He isn't a go-route receiver and never has been.

Never has been does not mean never can be, and even if he's used as a DECOY on go routes, he'll either pull a safety with him or be in one-on-one coverage. Both benefit us. There is literally NO REASON not to try it.

 

[chris98251]

If your going to bubble screen you need to pull the safety or corner back, before throwing the ball, thats not happening, if they come up to cheat on Harvin your receiver needs to get the ball instead of Harvin whether it's a slant or a fly, either case it should be a quick read and the ball thrown fast instead of letting the defense roll over to the side for support.

Do that a few times then the defense is kept honest and the bubble screens start working.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Actually, David, I just checked the data on Percy and they did send him on deep routes in Minnesota. Here are the numbers for his career thus far. I laid it out by year, and how many 20+ yard targets (not receptions) he had by left side, middle, and right side, along with the total # of overall targets he had for that year and how many games he played in that year.

2009: 2 left, 7 middle, 4 right (98 targets in 17 games played)
2010: 2 left, 9 middle, 4 right (104 targets in 14 games played)
2011: 2 left, 6 middle, 2 right (118 targets in 16 games played)
2012: 1 left, 3 middle, 1 right (81 targets in 9 games played)
2013: 0 left, 0 middle, 0 right (7 targets in 3 games played)
2014: 0 left, 0 middle, 0 right (26 targets in 5 games played)

We haven't targeted him once deep yet as a Seahawk. That's friggin' awesome. They had Tarvaris Jackson and Christian Ponder throwing deep to Percy, but we don't do it with Russell Wilson. Seriously, great work there, Bevell. Tical or any of the other people still siding with Bevell want to explain this? Let me guess, superior pass protection? (Because, you know, launching a bomb on a sideline go route requires five seconds in the pocket.....)

In Percy Harvin's pre-Seattle NFL career, he was thrown at 20+ yards down the field 43 times out of a total of 401 targets across 56 games. I can't find out how many times he ran deep routes, but obviously no receiver gets targeted all of the time they run a deep route so it's pretty safe to say he was running at least a deep route or two every single game on average with Minnesota, and averaging a deep pass targeted at him 0.76 times per game.

We haven't done it once with him as a Seahawk in the eight games he has played with us to date in Seattle.

Jesus.

 

[DavidSeven]

Not sure what point you're proving with that data set. Single digit targets over 20+ yards out of 80-100 overall targets? This somehow proves he's a deep threat? I would accuse you of cherry-picking stats, but these stats don't even help you.

In 2012, he caught 0 passes thrown 21+ yards. Zero. In 2011, he caught two passes over 21+. By contrast, Jordy Nelson caught 13 passes over 21 yards last year. DeSean Jackson had 12 (9 @ 31+ yards). Sidney Rice had seven in his last healthy season in Seattle. Jermaine Kearse caught more deep throws last season (while barely starting) than Harvin did from 2011-2012.

Also, he's ran go-routes here. If he hasn't gotten a target on those occasions, that's on him, the QB, and the defense they're facing. But like I said, that ain't his game.

You're saying he'll pull a safety if he runs deep. So what? He's already getting spied, and we're already getting one-on-one coverage all day. Teams are already daring us to throw with or without decoys. At some point, our QB and receivers need to beat man coverage. That's not on playcalling. QB needs to get the ball out and receivers need to complete the plays. Simple as that. How much hand-holding do we need our OC to do?

 

[hawkfan68]

Marshawn needs show Bevell his middle finger again. That may light a fire under him or not....

 

[RolandDeschain]

Not sure what point you're proving with that data set. Single digit targets over 20+ yards out of 80-100 overall targets? This somehow proves he's a deep threat? I would accuse you of cherry-picking stats, but these stats don't even help you.

Just saying that a run-based team with crappy QBs sent him deep somewhat regularly, you're largely comparing throwing-based teams against him. (Who's cherry-picking stats?) He has never been a guy that goes deep a lot, true, but your implication seems to be that he can't be, which is ridiculous. He's got insane speed and good hands.

In 2012, he caught 0 passes thrown 21+ yards. Zero. In 2011, he caught two passes over 21+. By contrast, Jordy Nelson caught 13 passes over 21 yards last year. DeSean Jackson had 12 (9 @ 31+ yards). Sidney Rice had seven in his last healthy season in Seattle. Jermaine Kearse caught more deep throws last season (while barely starting) than Harvin did from 2011-2012.

Christian Ponder. See? It's a trump card. Unless you're trying to say Percy's the problem there, not the QB, lol. If so, justify it.

Also, he's ran go-routes here. If he hasn't gotten a target on those occasions, that's on him, the QB, and the defense they're facing. But like I said, that ain't his game.

You are hung up on it "not being his game"; why? Do you have ANY evidence to support it? Because he didn't do it in Minnesota a lot? That's an excuse for nothing.

You're saying he'll pull a safety if he runs deep. So what? He's already getting spied, and we're already getting one-on-one coverage all day.

His mostly short routes don't help much in terms of pulling coverage away from a large part of the field. Go watch the Eagles vs. Giants game from a few days ago, they sent guys deep regularly to help keep short coverage shallow and passed for 5-10 yards a pop all damn day. Look, it's nice when receivers beat their coverage and are wide open, but elite passing games from the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, etc. don't rely on it or utilize it all the time. They regularly pass to guys that are covered well all the time. How many times has a Patriots tight end caught a pass with someone on their hip between Gronk and pre-murder-arrest Hernandez? I mean, give me a break. The way our passing game is schemed right now is...simplistic, to put it kindly. Not sure what you're even trying to get at; that you can only pass to someone that beats their coverage? If that was true, there wouldn't be a single team that runs a pass-first offense. Sure, the whole point of going through progressions is to find an open receiver.

How many times do we see a QB complete a pass to a receiver that isn't open in the NFL, though? All the time. Hell, some passing offenses even automatically throw to a guy running a slant regularly the instant the QB gets the ball, not even knowing if he'll get open...or regularly throw passes on timing routes depending on the receiver to break at the right moment and that doesn't depend on them being open.

Teams are already daring us to throw with or without decoys. At some point, our QB and receivers need to beat man coverage. That's not on playcalling.

Well...Actually, the phrase "scheming guys open" is exactly on play calling - the offensive coordinator. Sure, receivers need to be able to beat their coverage sometimes, preferably regularly, but in reality there are very few receivers in the NFL that can beat coverage on half of the routes they run.

QB needs to get the ball out and receivers need to complete the plays. Simple as that. How much hand-holding do we need our OC to do?

The few times we've actually tried to throw slants multiple times in a game they've worked pretty well. I don't know why we avoid even having guys run them so much. You talk about your OC needing to hold the hands of others? I find that preposterous, as he seems to be the one that needs his hand to be held...Unless the several times we've seen 3rd-down Bryan Walters specials this year constitute masterful play calling to you, or hey, how about running that big physical back Percy Harvin up the gut between the A gaps against Dallas? Not like we have a better back than him for running up the middle, or anything. :roll:

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Several people have mentioned on this thread and others our receiving corps' inability to catch contested passes and man I couldn't agree with those folks more. I mentioned to my buddy I was watching the game with Sunday how nice it would be to have someone, anyone that could catch a damned pass in traffic for heaven's sake. Willson is by far the worst at this IMO, but none of them are good consistently. Separation is important, but so is effort/fight.

I have also wondered often during our off and on offensive struggles over the last 2 years why we don't just roll Russ out more often to offset his height issues.

 

[Largent80]

It is quite obvious how important Zach Miller is to this team.

 

[bandiger]

Head in the clouds Bevel, if he watched the Houston game. Arian Foster was gashing this Dallas defense. Same with Lynch with his small chances. I'm practically done with this fool.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

All I ask for all you Bevell haters is to be consistent.

Why do we only see these threads after losses? Where were the fire Bevell threads after the SB? After we destroyed GB? After Russell ran for 100 and passed for 200 in DC?

It's just too convenient to yell fire Bevell after a tough loss, so again make sure everyone sees your ire and frustration with Bevell's play calling after our next big win. Fair?

 

[RolandDeschain]

All I ask for all you Bevell haters is to be consistent.

Well, I guess I've got that covered. No one has been as consistent about it and had that opinion about his abilities longer than I around here.

Why do we only see these threads after losses? Where were the fire Bevell threads after the SB? After we destroyed GB? After Russell ran for 100 and passed for 200 in DC?

It's just too convenient to yell fire Bevell after a tough loss, so again make sure everyone sees your ire and frustration with Bevell's play calling after our next big win. Fair?

There's still been discussion in random places about poor play calling by some people after wins, too.

It boggles the mind that you don't expect it to be a much more highly discussed topic following a game with abnormally horrific play calling. You should expect some sort of a correlation there...

That being said, here are some anti-Bevell threads following wins in the playoffs last year alone:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85472
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85560
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85591
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88091

So, how do you plan to defend your premise that Bevell only gets ragged on following losses when it's clearly false? I mean, obviously, there's more discussion about it following losses, but that's to be expected. EVERYTHING gets criticized more following a loss; that is simply normal. You and a few others around here just accusing everyone of making Saint Bevell the scapegoat whenever we don't win by a dozen scores but otherwise not saying a word about it is not only misleading, but wrong. There's regularly negative discussion about Bevell around here, and in the game day chat, etc. Ignoring what you don't like to see doesn't change that fact.

I just linked you four anti-Bevell threads made in the main forum alone during the playoffs only in a year we won the Super Bowl; but yeah, clearly we only dislike Bevell after a loss. :roll:

 

[Largent80]

All I ask for all you Bevell haters is to be consistent.
Fair?

All we ask for is consistent good game plans, not this artsy fartsy crap he is trotting out there. RW saved his ass in the Washington game. The Green Bay game he called was great, what happened?

 

[JesterHawk]

Roland. Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota. Why aren't you blaming the only variable that has changed? Pete.

 

[MysterMatt]

Again, I'm not necessarily on the "Fire Bevell" bandwagon, but here's something to consider: teams eventually figure you out. Yes, having only two plays for Harvin to run/decoy for Russell to run time after time was effective against teams who either weren't ready for it (Green Bay) or didn't have the means to stop it. But guess what? Dallas, with it's pedestrian (certainly no longer "bad") defense was prepared for the same game plan we've run the previous 4 games. Not really a shocker, is it?

I'm okay with doing something until a team shows it can stop you, but shouldn't an NFL caliber OC have a contingency plan as well? It was clear after the first two possessions that Dallas wasn't going to let Harvin run free, and Bevell (and by extension Pete) did NOTHING to adjust. From start to finish, Dallas jammed the front and we made no adjustments at all to counter it. We either ran go routes or screens, with very few intermediate plays at all. It was appalling how limited out O looked...embarrassing. I honestly felt like Dallas had somehow tapped into our communications because that D was ready for every single thing we did. Granted, we only tried about 4 things so maybe that took some of the guessing out of it for them.

At no point were we ever down so bad that we had to abandon the run until our final drive, but we used #24 with no consistency even when it was clear that the one thing we were able to do was run the ball. I don't give a crap about the excuses (e.g. Okung's false starts), we just failed to commit to running the ball and kept going back to the predictable gadget plays for Harvin.

If we fans can predict what Bevell is going to do, don't you think a decent NFL DC is going to know?

So yes, our O did not execute well, and that brings another thing to mind. I can't help but wonder if Bevell is losing the offense? Is the poor execution due to talent alone, or are they frustrated as well? It's pure speculation on my part, but Baldwin's frustration is telling. We have too much talent to be this bad, so what gives? Where's the motivation?

 

[bandiger]

All I ask for all you Bevell haters is to be consistent.
Fair?

All we ask for is consistent good game plans, not this artsy fartsy crap he is trotting out there. RW saved his ass in the Washington game. The Green Bay game he called was great, what happened?

Green Bay was an anomaly, it was the first game of the year and unveiling all these plays the first time was great to see.
I'm just tired of Bevell, guy doesn't seem to adjust to the opponents we face instead we stick to some rigid structure that supposedly will give a balanced attack or prevent turnovers, people with all-22 have better resources to analyze the gameplan but watching it unfold on broadcast TV is plain infuriating. I gave Bevell the benefit of doubt during Wilson's rookie year and then last season with the O-line decimated. This game was the tipping point since I saw the Hou vs Dal game, Houston lost that game due to some out-right horrendous play calling as well.

 

[MysterMatt]

If you feature misdirection, teams will stop biting at it.