Firmly believe Pete behind Russell's Struggles

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!

Which part of what I said is BS?

A. The Russell's an elite top 5 QB
B. Russell's a future HOF QB
C. Russell plays better with a good defense and run game
D. I don't think he's on the same level as Rodgers and Brees and Brady in their prime
E. My names jamescasey and I really don't know what I'm yelling about but it feels amazing

Lol

 

[jamescasey1124]

So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.[/quote]

This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and ahead of those stats at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are bitching about nothingness.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He has been carrying the team on his back his entire career in MANY of their wins, if not most. But let's ignore it. Because it's Russ.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and beating ahead of those state at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.

I didn't say never, I said "probably," and this year proved it out. When Carson went down and the defense was still playing terrible, Russell had 10 turnovers in five games, and we lost four of those games........and most importantly the offense (under Pete) was still trying to play the same way it played in the first five games.

So sorry, no I do not think he's at the level of those players, and probably never will be. But he's close. If they're 1a, he's 1b.

Does Pete have something to do with that? Some, but I'm not ready to absolve Russell from taking the brunt of the blame, especially with some of his bad decisions for games, and even stretches of seasons.

It's why he hasn't received an MVP vote, he's not at the level of Mahomes and Rodgers, or other QB's that carried their teams for entire seasons to #1 seeds and SB's.

So yeah, blame Pete, but if we're handing out blame, Russell's 80% and Pete and his offense is 20% for me.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....

I'll play you Soulfish................"Pfft, Russell turn the ball over 10 times in five games, goes through long stretches of games inconsistent, gets happy feet, can be indecisive, takes unnecessary sacks, intentional groundings, misses wide open receivers, spins into sacks and makes terrible decisions sometimes..........and it's all Pete's fault? Hmmm......"


Look familiar?

 

[TraderGary]

Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

Pete built this program. We win because of it.

There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.

I agree with pretty much this entire post, particularly the section I highlighted in bold, which is something I've been saying for several years.

Pete and JS have built a culture of winning here, and for that I will always be grateful. But the fact is, Pete is a control freak and micro-manager, and in my opinion, holds this team back at times. Great leader, great motivator, and below average X's and O's game day coach. The fact is, he's been riding RW's coattails for years.

His micro-managing is something that has frustrated me a great deal over the years, but given the fact he's likely going to be our HC for the next 5 years, I'm making a concerted effort to accept that this is just who he is and roll with it. I'm tired of beating my head against the wall over something I have absolutely no control over. The fact is, we're competitive every year under Pete, and could have it a whole lot worse, so I'm just trying to enjoy the ride and hope for the best. It's hard to complain about being in the playoffs nearly every year, but I don't know that Pete will ever get us to another SB unless he changes his ways.

I think he would be a great coach if he would surround himself with the right coordinators and allow them full autonomy. Particularly an OC who knows how to utilize the strengths of a QB like Russ, and not attempt to turn him into something he's not. With a mobile QB like RW, why are they not using more roll-outs, bootlegs, moving the pocket, all the things which put a whole lot more pressure on the opposing defenses? And particularly against teams with great pass rushes like the Rams and 49ers? It's my opinion that they are not utilizing him properly, or to his greatest strengths. He's always been better and more dynamic outside the pocket. Don't think anyone would argue otherwise. Our entire offensive system needs a complete overhaul. It's one of the most unimaginative and least creative systems in the league.

Sadly, the thought of Pete turning over control to a top notch coordinator on either side of the ball would be a seismic shift for him, and is highly unlikely at this stage of his career.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....

I'll play you Soulfish................"Pfft, Russell turn the ball over 10 times in five games, goes through long stretches of games inconsistent, gets happy feet, can be indecisive, takes unnecessary sacks, intentional groundings, misses wide open receivers, spins into sacks and makes terrible decisions sometimes..........and it's all Pete's fault? Hmmm......"


Look familiar?

I'll play you Private Largent or hardly largent or shouldnt even have largent in his name. Ok...

Ten turnovers I five games. Hmmm. How many of those turnovers were just bad throws, how many were picks, pick 6s, fumbles or maybe dropped passes. Hmmm...
Yes russ throws the ball, but is a turnover completely his fault if the ball touches more hands than his? Answer no. I'll give you fumbles which i think he has one...on a bad snap, but i can only think of one interception he should of not thrown and that was to 31 William's on the rams, when trying to find olsen or dissly on a out route athe first game we played the rams.

You guys are pitiful. Blaming one person instead of a team. Find something else to bitch about, because in playoff time you will see again why russ is the best now that the rest of his team is playing as well.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Oh and I never blamed pete. I said handcuffing less would be ideal, but never once blamed pete for any struggles. That was the original poster.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pretty much where I am Gary.

Without Pete, we never get to enjoy this ride. Period.

But there is this nagging feeling that a lot of what Pete does not excel at...is what might make this incredible difference in Wilson becoming that Rodgers/Brees/Mahomes tier player (which he occasionally reaches but not consistently).

I think Largent kind of nailed it. Wilson is great. Even HOF great. But not Rodger-esque or Brees-esque 'carry a team to multiple rounds in the playoffs despite glaring deficiencies on the other side of the ball' great. Exceptional QB, but not a guy that can consistently make up for gaping holes in his team or staff.

Which is OK. Not every QB can do that. Most cannot. Plenty other QBs win SBs not being able to do that. But expecting our QB to do this then makes no sense. He likely won't.

PeteBall does not help though. If anything it makes it less likely Wilson can contribute his full worth in the playoffs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Whatever you say, Largent.
Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
Have a great week, go Hawks

 

[RolandDeschain]

In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.

 

[John63]

Whatever you say, Largent.
Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
Have a great week, go Hawks

You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.

 

[John63]

In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.

exactly, and they also adjust on the fly. We dont, we just keep hitting ourselves against the wall.

 

[TraderGary]

In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.

Spot on

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Whatever you say, Largent.
Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
Have a great week, go Hawks

You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.

Okay, John, I think you are being a little extreme here and exaggerating.

Yes, there are divisions within this board where criticism is to coaches, and players, and Wilson, since he is a player, belongs to that criteria and should/can be critiqued to whoever does the judging of his game, i.e. the posters here.

Wilson is not invincible. He makes bone headed decisions pretty consistently.

I think we have all seen Wilson throw into double and triple coverage and picked off at the most in opportune time.

The man does throw balls where you say, “Wilson, what are you doing????!!!”

I see him do it at least 4-5 times a game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

I give up...…...

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

I give up...…...

I’ll be sure to tally it up after this upcoming Rams game. How much he will throw into double/triple coverage.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Whatever you say, Largent.
Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
Have a great week, go Hawks

You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.

You two ever hear of nuance.

It can be both you know, like.........a group issue. As in how well or poorly an offense or QB does is comprised of many parts. Coach, O-coordinator, playcalling, scheme, and yes the QB himself.

Just because I think in Russell's 10th year that he is the primary person to blame when he's not playing well doesn't mean I want him to fail. In fact I love him, and I thank baby Jesus every day that he's our QB.

See how that works? Nuance. You two should check it out. If you think it's more on Pete? Good for you, I just don't share that opinion.

 

[John63]

4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

I give up...…...

he wasn't nor was there 4 or 5 times every game either.