Pete would still be coaching if he traded up for ....

[toffee]

It does affect Pete’s tenure, in that he has a QB locked up for 4 years for pennies on the dollar. That gives the team a lot of flexibility.

Stroud’s ceiling is also much higher than Geno’s. Stroud got better as the season went on and I’d argue that midway through the season he started playing better than Geno.

A Stroud character might’ve given Pete at least another year with the same showing he had on the Texans.

I think an issue that Pete had here is Jody no longer bought into his vision for the future. The teams defense has been a hot mess for awhile now and honestly, our QB solution under Pete wasn’t a tenable long term solution. Geno isn’t bad, but he’s very streaky and has limited upside. He is also on the older side of things.

I think having a talented young signal caller would’ve bought Carroll at least another year. Stroud had one of the best rookie seasons ever at QB. This means they’d shore up the position for 10+ years along with 4-5 years of salary cap flexibility.

Having that as something to lay back on would’ve been a much easier sale than what we got going on here in Seattle right now.

That was my thought too,

 

[knownone]

It does affect Pete’s tenure, in that he has a QB locked up for 4 years for pennies on the dollar. That gives the team a lot of flexibility.

Stroud’s ceiling is also much higher than Geno’s. Stroud got better as the season went on and I’d argue that midway through the season he started playing better than Geno.

A Stroud character might’ve given Pete at least another year with the same showing he had on the Texans.

I think an issue that Pete had here is Jody no longer bought into his vision for the future. The teams defense has been a hot mess for awhile now and honestly, our QB solution under Pete wasn’t a tenable long term solution. Geno isn’t bad, but he’s very streaky and has limited upside. He is also on the older side of things.

I think having a talented young signal caller would’ve bought Carroll at least another year. Stroud had one of the best rookie seasons ever at QB. This means they’d shore up the position for 10+ years along with 4-5 years of salary cap flexibility.

Having that as something to lay back on would’ve been a much easier sale than what we got going on here in Seattle right now.

So you are saying that if Pete won 9 games with CJ Stroud instead of Geno, he would keep his job? Maybe. But remember, drafting Stroud means no Witherspoon and mortgaging part of the future. The defense would have been significantly worse, and nine wins might have been a stretch.

Stroud's ceiling might be higher, but he and Geno performed at roughly the same level this season. So I have a hard time imagining Stroud carrying an even worse version of the Seahawks further than Geno did this year.

I still think Jody would fire Pete if he missed the playoffs, regardless of who was starting at QB.

 

[Scout]

The NFL is cyclical but this past NFL season is showing that defense still matters. Having a young signal caller on a cheap deal allows you to build an offense and defense long term.

Geno isn't a bad QB and if he ends up another team I wouldn't be shocked if he does better. This is because to build a team in todays NFL you need to have more balance on both sides of the ball. A QB that is high caliber just tips the scales in your favor.

The Chiefs are a great example in that their defense has been good enough which allows Mahomes and the offense to compete despite their struggles at WR. And not too long ago they did a revamp of their OL in one off season.

Drafting high is helpful but you have to be able to hit on mid round picks and find undrafted gems. Pacheco was a 7th round pick as an example.

PC inability with JS to find gems beyond the first round for many years is the real reason why the team isn't the same as it used to be. With fairness the last two drafts I feel have been home runs and the young core is forming. But it takes at least 3-4 drafts to really form the core of a team.

We shall see if JS is able to do so with this third draft and if he drafts a signal caller. If he follows the GB model then he will keep Geno but he will also draft a QB high to sit and learn while the team is slowly built up around the new QB in the waiting.

 

[JayhawkMike]

So Knownone is making the argument that a rookie is virtually the same as a 10 year vet? Are you trying to say that Stroud is great or that Geno is playing like a rookie?

my take is that either you think we have talent on the team and the coaching sucks or we don’t have talent and the players suck. Yes, there is an in between. I think drafting Stroud would have indicated that PC gave a crap about the long term success of the Seahawks but as to immediate success I have no confidence that PC would have developed Stroud in any significant way.

 

[BASF]

All this pontification is hilarious. The defense was not fixed in five years. Pete could not save his job because of it. My interview to keep him would have been this short:
Me, "Pete, how soon are we firing Clint Hurtt?"
Pete, "Him and I can fix the defense with blah blah blah and mumbo jumbo"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

Alternatively:
Me, "How soon are we cutting Diggs and Adams so we don't have to overpay them this year for the third straight year?"
Pete, "What do you mean? These guys are warriors making tremendous effort. We need to keep them to make the defense work"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

The fact that so many are so hung up on the QB just shows how susceptible so many are to marketing by the NFL.

 

[Ozzy]

All this pontification is hilarious. The defense was not fixed in five years. Pete could not save his job because of it. My interview to keep him would have been this short:
Me, "Pete, how soon are we firing Clint Hurtt?"
Pete, "Him and I can fix the defense with blah blah blah and mumbo jumbo"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

Alternatively:
Me, "How soon are we cutting Diggs and Adams so we don't have to overpay them this year for the third straight year?"
Pete, "What do you mean? These guys are warriors making tremendous effort. We need to keep them to make the defense work"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

The fact that so many are so hung up on the QB just shows how susceptible so many are to marketing by the NFL.

I don’t think you’re all wrong but I do think you’re understating the QB position. Look at the final 8 this year. All 8 were very, very good. Who’s the worst Mayfield? He had a higher EPA than Geno. Geno would be the worst QB in the field. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Mayfield, Stroud, Goff, Purdy, Love.

It is still the most important piece of the puzzle and it’s fair to wonder if who we have on staff is good enough to win playoffs games.

 

[scutterhawk]

So Knownone is making the argument that a rookie is virtually the same as a 10 year vet? Are you trying to say that Stroud is great or that Geno is playing like a rookie?

my take is that either you think we have talent on the team and the coaching sucks or we don’t have talent and the players suck. Yes, there is an in between. I think drafting Stroud would have indicated that PC gave a crap about the long term success of the Seahawks but as to immediate success I have no confidence that PC would have developed Stroud in any significant way.

No, what he's saying, is that the Geno could NOT overcome our shitty Defense.
The fact that Geno's Offensive Line was bunged up, couldn't Pass Protect, couldn't Run Block for shit, says a lot in FAVOR of how much Geno had accomplished in spite of all that, and some of y'all continue grasping, trying to put the reason for Hurtt's failures on Geno.
Geno is a waaay above average placeholder, and NOT the reason for Pete's firing.
I DO believe that they absolutely should take a Quarterback in this upcoming Draft.
They are going with a new HC, so adding a young new signal caller is the obvious next step in a Rebuild.

 

[irfuben32]

I don’t think you’re all wrong but I do think you’re understating the QB position. Look at the final 8 this year. All 8 were very, very good. Who’s the worst Mayfield? He had a higher EPA than Geno. Geno would be the worst QB in the field. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Mayfield, Stroud, Goff, Purdy, Love.

It is still the most important piece of the puzzle and it’s fair to wonder if who we have on staff is good enough to win playoffs games.

How many of those teams have a crap defense?

Watching that Pittsburgh game, it became painfully obvious that this was not a playoff team.

 

[Ozzy]

How many of those teams have a crap defense?

Watching that Pittsburgh game, it became painfully obvious that this was not a playoff team.

Texans, Packers, Lions, Tampa all have very average defenses. So half the field doesn’t have great defenses

 

[Hawkinaz]

All this pontification is hilarious. The defense was not fixed in five years. Pete could not save his job because of it. My interview to keep him would have been this short:
Me, "Pete, how soon are we firing Clint Hurtt?"
Pete, "Him and I can fix the defense with blah blah blah and mumbo jumbo"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

Alternatively:
Me, "How soon are we cutting Diggs and Adams so we don't have to overpay them this year for the third straight year?"
Pete, "What do you mean? These guys are warriors making tremendous effort. We need to keep them to make the defense work"
Me, "Thank you for all you have done for the organization, but we are going in a different direction."

The fact that so many are so hung up on the QB just shows how susceptible so many are to marketing by the NFL.

Pretty much my same thoughts. What got Pete fired is he had no plans for improvement, just being too loyal to your coaches and favorite players bringing back the same and hope we have a better season. I guess Pete has never heard of Kaizen

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

I’m sure Waldron would’ve found a way to get him to play mediocre by phasing him out like he did the rest of the offense

 

[bileever]

CJ would have gotten hurt and the Seahawks would have a had a losing record with him playing behind this offensive line. He already missed a few a games with a concussion.

Stroud got to play behind a pretty good line in Houston. Most likely would not have had as good a season in Seattle. Or most likely would have sat behind Geno for a year.

 

[BlueTalon]

Pretty much my same thoughts. What got Pete fired is he had no plans for improvement, just being too loyal to your coaches and favorite players bringing back the same and hope we have a better season. I guess Pete has never heard of Kaizen

Pete said he had very specific and exact plans for improvement, and he apparently presented them while he was competing like crazy to continue to be the head coach. Jody, and whatever other "non-football people" may have been party to the decision, either disagreed with the plan itself, or disagreed that Pete would be able to successfully execute it. I doubt we'll ever get the details of said plan.

 

[Hawkinaz]

Pete said he had very specific and exact plans for improvement, and he apparently presented them while he was competing like crazy to continue to be the head coach. Jody, and whatever other "non-football people" may have been party to the decision, either disagreed with the plan itself, or disagreed that Pete would be able to successfully execute it. I doubt we'll ever get the details of said plan.

What were the plans?

 

[BlueTalon]

What were the plans?

The last sentence of my previous post:

"I doubt we'll ever get the details of said plan."

In plainer English, I don't know what his plans were.

 

[IndyHawk]

What were the plans?

If the plan was to roll out the same OC/DC and most of the 2023 team
would you keep Pete on?

 

[Ozzy]

Stroud got to play behind a pretty good line in Houston. Most likely would not have had as good a season in Seattle. Or most likely would have sat behind Geno for a year.

They’re line was ranked 18th on one major site and the got hammered with injuries. It was better but not light years better.

 

[Ozzy]

Playerprofiler actually has the Texans ranked near the bottom just slightly higher than the Seahawks. So the argument Geno was better because you have to factor in his line is flat out wrong.

 

[scutterhawk]

Playerprofiler actually has the Texans ranked near the bottom just slightly higher than the Seahawks. So the argument Geno was better because you have to factor in his line is flat out wrong.

Give me a break, both Lucas & Cross go out in game 1, and a patchwork line is thrown in there (check the grades these fill-ins were getting) NOT "Flat Out Wrong" at all, +, unlike the Seahawks Defense, the Texans Defense HELPPED Stroud to get more wins, these are just the bottom line facts.
OH AND, how many times did the Texans have to play the 49ers? Rams?

 

[Ozzy]

Give me a break, both Lucas & Cross go out in game 1, and a patchwork line is thrown in there (check the grades these fill-ins were getting) NOT "Flat Out Wrong" at all, +, unlike the Seahawks Defense, the Texans Defense HELPPED Stroud to get more wins, these are just the bottom line facts.
OH AND, how many times did the Texans have to play the 49ers? Rams?

The Seattle line was bad. The point is so was the Texans line. Stroud is also a ROOKIE. You taking Geno over Stroud?