Russ regressing

[John63]

I find it odd that people spin this narrative that Russ cannot do short passes, quick passes, or the middle of the field when he literally did all those things and put up one of his best seasons doing it (under Fing Bevell!). Did it suddenly vanish from his ken?

Wilson does not do things his team is not allowing him to do because his coach is not making it a part of the gameplan. Period.

Then please explain why on the All-22 there are dozens of examples of open receivers in the middle and intermediate area that have obviously been game planned to be there and open and Wilson is not throwing to them.

Easy, more chances for a INT, tip, or bounce that creates a turnover, almost all of Wilsons throws are out and away or deep and away.

Wilson still does not do the anticipation throw, you know the one where you throw to s spot on the field based on the read and the WR breaks there on a timing pattern.

He doesn't throw into tight windows unless it's a 4th Quarter Comeback, not happening in normal offense. That gives him a out card trying to lead a comeback and there was a mistake.

Thats all in the design of protect the football and don't take chances, a message repeatedly made by Pete and I would bet drilled into Wilson and every Offensive Coach.

exactly as PC has said he does not like throwing over the middle for those exact reasons. In fact 4 of Wilson INT came over the middle on tipped, or dropped passes. By the way we had 27 dropped passes this year. top 3 in the league.

 

[Forthewin]

There is a reason he was only given a 4 year extension. He is gone in 2023. Expexct the hawks to move up in the draft at some point soon to grab a QB. Btw, I love RW, its just that all players start to decline.

 

[BASF]

Easy, more chances for a INT, tip, or bounce that creates a turnover, almost all of Wilsons throws are out and away or deep and away.

Wilson still does not do the anticipation throw, you know the one where you throw to s spot on the field based on the read and the WR breaks there on a timing pattern.

He doesn't throw into tight windows unless it's a 4th Quarter Comeback, not happening in normal offense. That gives him a out card trying to lead a comeback and there was a mistake.

Thats all in the design of protect the football and don't take chances, a message repeatedly made by Pete and I would bet drilled into Wilson and every Offensive Coach.

I want to get this straight, you believe that Pete Carroll is literally telling Wilson and his offensive coordinators not to throw to open receivers in the middle?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is a reason he was only given a 4 year extension. He is gone in 2023. Expexct the hawks to move up in the draft at some point soon to grab a QB. Btw, I love RW, its just that all players start to decline.

I thought the reason for the four year extension is because that's the length of time that's mutually agreed upon as the best way for both sides to maximize value.

Elite players normally don't want to sign longer deals because they know the market will increase exponentially more than a long contract........and 4-5 years is the length of time most organizations are comfortable with being able to get off of those contracts while still giving them enough years to manipulate the cap ramifications.

The OP question is both.

Russell's legs and ability to run and avoid pressure is indeed regressing, but his mastery of the position is increasing.

 

[IndyHawk]

There is a reason he was only given a 4 year extension. He is gone in 2023. Expexct the hawks to move up in the draft at some point soon to grab a QB. Btw, I love RW, its just that all players start to decline.

I thought the reason for the four year extension is because that's the length of time that's mutually agreed upon as the best way for both sides to maximize value.

Elite players normally don't want to sign longer deals because they know the market will increase exponentially more than a long contract........and 4-5 years is the length of time most organizations are comfortable with being able to get off of those contracts while still giving them enough years to manipulate the cap ramifications.

The OP question is both.

Russell's legs and ability to run and avoid pressure is indeed regressing, but his mastery of the position is increasing.

Is it?I would like to say it has every year but I can't.
It has to now though..Those cement cleats will not
get lighter.

 

[Tical21]

I find it odd that people spin this narrative that Russ cannot do short passes, quick passes, or the middle of the field when he literally did all those things and put up one of his best seasons doing it (under Fing Bevell!). Did it suddenly vanish from his ken?

Wilson does not do things his team is not allowing him to do because his coach is not making it a part of the gameplan. Period.

Then please explain why on the All-22 there are dozens of examples of open receivers in the middle and intermediate area that have obviously been game planned to be there and open and Wilson is not throwing to them.

Okay first prove they were open when it was their turn in the progression, then prove they were game planned to be open, then prove he had a throwing lane like all QBs need. You see all the all 22 show sis a moment in time of a play but no context around it at all. LAso prove they were at the right down adn distance needed. Does little good to be open 2 yards over the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 30.

FYI with well over 400 pass attempt s a dozen of so-called missed open receivers is not much, all QBs miss them. Also I can show picture s and videos of him throwing over the middle too. I Can also show pictures and videos of Brady, Rodgers, and every QB missing what appears to be open guys over the middle. The question is though, were they open when it was their turn in the progression, was their a throwing lane, and what was the down and distance.

Come on. When you get cover 2 and you have a dig or flood, even folks with a elementary understanding of basic passing concepts know the progression. When you can find like ten examples every week that show Russ clearly staring at his primary receiver who is wide open and Russ isn't throwing the ball, that isn't coaching. That is coach killing. Do you just not follow any of the film guys? You could have had this excuse 5-6 years ago. Not anymore. Russ just isn't capable of executing over the middle. It is literally that simple.

 

[Tical21]

I find it odd that people spin this narrative that Russ cannot do short passes, quick passes, or the middle of the field when he literally did all those things and put up one of his best seasons doing it (under Fing Bevell!). Did it suddenly vanish from his ken?

Wilson does not do things his team is not allowing him to do because his coach is not making it a part of the gameplan. Period.

Then please explain why on the All-22 there are dozens of examples of open receivers in the middle and intermediate area that have obviously been game planned to be there and open and Wilson is not throwing to them.

Easy, more chances for a INT, tip, or bounce that creates a turnover, almost all of Wilsons throws are out and away or deep and away.

Wilson still does not do the anticipation throw, you know the one where you throw to s spot on the field based on the read and the WR breaks there on a timing pattern.

He doesn't throw into tight windows unless it's a 4th Quarter Comeback, not happening in normal offense. That gives him a out card trying to lead a comeback and there was a mistake.

Thats all in the design of protect the football and don't take chances, a message repeatedly made by Pete and I would bet drilled into Wilson and every Offensive Coach.

exactly as PC has said he does not like throwing over the middle for those exact reasons. In fact 4 of Wilson INT came over the middle on tipped, or dropped passes. By the way we had 27 dropped passes this year. top 3 in the league.

So you're anti-DK now?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is a reason he was only given a 4 year extension. He is gone in 2023. Expexct the hawks to move up in the draft at some point soon to grab a QB. Btw, I love RW, its just that all players start to decline.

I thought the reason for the four year extension is because that's the length of time that's mutually agreed upon as the best way for both sides to maximize value.

Elite players normally don't want to sign longer deals because they know the market will increase exponentially more than a long contract........and 4-5 years is the length of time most organizations are comfortable with being able to get off of those contracts while still giving them enough years to manipulate the cap ramifications.

The OP question is both.

Russell's legs and ability to run and avoid pressure is indeed regressing, but his mastery of the position is increasing.

Is it?I would like to say it has every year but I can't.
It has to now though..Those cement cleats will not
get lighter.

Back to back 4,000 yard seasons, 40 TD's this year (9 more than last year) and continued 100+ QBR? Yes, I'd say Russell's mastery is still on the ascent.

 

[hawk45]

I find it odd that people spin this narrative that Russ cannot do short passes, quick passes, or the middle of the field when he literally did all those things and put up one of his best seasons doing it (under Fing Bevell!). Did it suddenly vanish from his ken?

Wilson does not do things his team is not allowing him to do because his coach is not making it a part of the gameplan. Period.

Then please explain why on the All-22 there are dozens of examples of open receivers in the middle and intermediate area that have obviously been game planned to be there and open and Wilson is not throwing to them.

Okay first prove they were open when it was their turn in the progression, then prove they were game planned to be open, then prove he had a throwing lane like all QBs need. You see all the all 22 show sis a moment in time of a play but no context around it at all. LAso prove they were at the right down adn distance needed. Does little good to be open 2 yards over the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 30.

FYI with well over 400 pass attempt s a dozen of so-called missed open receivers is not much, all QBs miss them. Also I can show picture s and videos of him throwing over the middle too. I Can also show pictures and videos of Brady, Rodgers, and every QB missing what appears to be open guys over the middle. The question is though, were they open when it was their turn in the progression, was their a throwing lane, and what was the down and distance.

Come on. When you get cover 2 and you have a dig or flood, even folks with a elementary understanding of basic passing concepts know the progression. When you can find like ten examples every week that show Russ clearly staring at his primary receiver who is wide open and Russ isn't throwing the ball, that isn't coaching. That is coach killing. Do you just not follow any of the film guys? You could have had this excuse 5-6 years ago. Not anymore. Russ just isn't capable of executing over the middle. It is literally that simple.

Your tip a while back on matty brown got me finding those film guys on Twitter and that changed my whole outlook. I actually think brown can go over the top wanting Russ to test some windows (it feels to me like brown thinks honey hole execution is easier than it is but I’m no expert) but that’s when I began to take a game where Russ was, say, sacked a lot and stare at the short middle after every snap.

What I found was, even in games where the game day forum whined about all long routes, there’d be hitches and crossers and outlets all over the place. Open too. Russ just will. Not. Trust. His primary read. He will stare at DK through a passing lane for 2 seconds and take a sack, so it’s not that they aren’t open in his progression.

When fans point to early in the season when he was hitting shorter stuff, a look at the film reveals it was vs man coverage and heavier boxes. If Wilson sees a trailing DB he’ll throw it short. But vs zone he’s terrified of a lurking LB or safety just hidden by the guards he can’t see over.

Against teams playing us with 2 deep zone, we must run the ball 25 times or more. Russ cannot dunk and dunk through it like Brady or Rodgers or brees (until brees got burned over the middle last weekend)

 

[hawk45]

In fact my criticism of schotty isn’t that he can’t scheme open players short middle. It’s that he tries to scheme them there at all. Russ can’t or won’t execute it. Hand the ball off all game and hope it works when they are dropping 2 safeties and playing zone under as well.

 

[AgentDib]

Back to back 4,000 yard seasons, 40 TD's this year (9 more than last year) and continued 100+ QBR? Yes, I'd say Russell's mastery is still on the ascent.

The volume stats do not speak to QB performance as much as the efficiency stats do.

Russell's first 24 games under Schotty resulted in a 9.6 AY/A, which is stellar and would match him with the #1 overall QB this season in Aaron Rogers (9.6 AY/A). Unfortunately, his last 24 games under Schotty had an average AY/A of just 7.7, which is much more mediocre and would equal the #14 QB this season in Baker Mayfield (7.7 AY/A).

That corresponds with a significant downward trend in efficiency that should be concerning to everybody, particularly as QB play across the league was up, presumably due to the fast start most offenses got due to the pandemic.

Of course, a drop off in efficiency doesn't mean it is Russell's fault individually. Presumably we just fired the OC because we felt he was part of the problem and there have been many other reasonable factors listed; poor OL play, Russ getting antsy because of poor OL play, WR drops, poor TE play, you name it. Whatever the problem was though, I do think it is clear that it existed.

 

[Mad Dog]

Tom Brady getting to his 10th SB tells me that an elite QB is more important than an elite coach.

We should always replace the coach before we replace Russ.

NE chose Belichek over Brady. Bad choice.

 

[John63]

Lol lol lol thanks for the laughs fakers.

 

[AgentDib]

NE chose Belichek over Brady. Bad choice.

I don't think it was that so much as it was that they played salary cap games with Brady's contract until they couldn't keep him anymore. Perhaps they made a good choice given the Super Bowls that they won in the mean-time, but it's a dangerous move and why the discussions about restructuring contracts this off-season for salary cap room are similarly risky.