Is everyone already giving PC a pass for next season?

scutterhawk

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Yeah the 3 and outs didnt help, but lets not pretend that the defense was gassed just because of that. The defenses was gassed because they stunk and couldnt get off of the field.

Sure a run game benefits any team. Problem is, Wilson didnt have one for a lot of the times he was out there. The last few games dont mean squat for the first 3/4's of the season or the years before.
I's NOT "Pretending" when his 3 & outs wind up CONSISTENTLY >>Losing<< the Time of Possession battle, Game, after Game, after Game, now IS IT!?!?
Russ rejected, NO, Russ RESENTED of the FACT, that Marshawn Lynch was the FACE & IDENTITY of the Seahawks Offense early on, THUS, it was a "Feed Wilsons' Ego" and an ill-advised pass that cost the Seahawks their SECOND LOMBARDI...Think that didn't piss off the LOB??, Think there wasn't some hard feelings about Pete going out of his way to PAMPER Russ???
Y'all STILL making out like Pete didn't go that extra mile to HELP Russell Wilson SUCCEED = PILES OF BUII$#T
LOOK, Wilson has his weaknesses, AND PETE WAS FULLY AWARE OF ALL OF THEM!
I still have my Russell Wilson jersey, hanging in my closet, still appreciate what he HAS done for MY Seattle Seahawks, but he Q-U-I-T on MY TEAM, so if you want to FOLLOW him, y'all go right on ahead, I'm going to hang right here with the Master-architect who got WILSON & his teammates their FIRST Super Bowl RINGS.
The last few games AND the years "Before" were ANEMIC on Wilson's part, and you're right, they "DON'T MEAN SQUAT"....p.s. Tom Brady figured it out, but hey, Russell Wilson ain't no "Tom Brady", eh?
 

keasley45

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Yeah the 3 and outs didnt help, but lets not pretend that the defense was gassed just because of that. The defenses was gassed because they stunk and couldnt get off of the field.

Sure a run game benefits any team. Problem is, Wilson didnt have one for a lot of the times he was out there. The last few games dont mean squat for the first 3/4's of the season or the years before.

Have you researched our ypc average over the last 10 years? We are pretty consistently well above average, if not top 5 or 10 in the league. And for reasons unknown ( not really ), we didn't run over the last two years when we could have.

So Russ needed a line to give him 3 seconds +, and a running game to be better than top 5?
 

chrispy

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What is the expectation from those here that continuously praise the new Denver QB? What do you want to have happen? Do you think you'll convince this board and the Seahawks FO and JAllen they made a mistake and they'll sell the farm to get RW back? Do you just want people to express that they like RW? Do you just need a hug to help you move on? What is your end game?

Ms Allen made her choice. "Giving PC a pass for next season" is really up to her. As the OP implied, I don't have the authority to fire PC. I can't cut him loose or "give him a pass."

If the original question is really, "Are you going to be bitter every time something goes wrong, or are you going to remain hopeful when things go well?" then I'll try to focus on the second option. There's a lot to be hopeful about with the 2022 Seahawks.
 

pittpnthrs

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I's NOT "Pretending" when his 3 & outs wind up CONSISTENTLY >>Losing<< the Time of Possession battle, Game, after Game, after Game, now IS IT!?!?
Russ rejected, NO, Russ RESENTED of the FACT, that Marshawn Lynch was the FACE & IDENTITY of the Seahawks Offense early on, THUS, it was a "Feed Wilsons' Ego" and an ill-advised pass that cost the Seahawks their SECOND LOMBARDI...Think that didn't piss off the LOB??, Think there wasn't some hard feelings about Pete going out of his way to PAMPER Russ???
Y'all STILL making out like Pete didn't go that extra mile to HELP Russell Wilson SUCCEED = PILES OF BUII$#T
LOOK, Wilson has his weaknesses, AND PETE WAS FULLY AWARE OF ALL OF THEM!
I still have my Russell Wilson jersey, hanging in my closet, still appreciate what he HAS done for MY Seattle Seahawks, but he Q-U-I-T on MY TEAM, so if you want to FOLLOW him, y'all go right on ahead, I'm going to hang right here with the Master-architect who got WILSON & his teammates their FIRST Super Bowl RINGS.
The last few games AND the years "Before" were ANEMIC on Wilson's part, and you're right, they "DON'T MEAN SQUAT"....p.s. Tom Brady figured it out, but hey, Russell Wilson ain't no "Tom Brady", eh?

Good lord. So Pete and Bevell talked it over on the sideline and agreed to the play to make Wilson the hero? Lol. At least call it like it was. Carroll and Bevell panicked due to Belichick not calling a timeout. The clueless duo got cute and called a play that Browner practiced against everyday while he was in Seattle. Browner told Butler what was coming and the rest is history. If Carroll really wanted Wilson to be the hero, he would have at least gotten the correct personnel on the field or called a play that wasnt so obvious.

Yes Wilson has weaknesses, but his strengths far outweigh them. Yes he quit on Seattle because he had to. He saw the ownership was not going to part with Carroll and he knew nothing would ever change as long as he was there, so he left. Its like beating your head off the wall. You know its not going to fall, but you keep doing it anyways. Russ was tired of beating his head off the wall in Seattle. I dont blame him at all for leaving.
 

pittpnthrs

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Have you researched our ypc average over the last 10 years? We are pretty consistently well above average, if not top 5 or 10 in the league. And for reasons unknown ( not really ), we didn't run over the last two years when we could have.

So Russ needed a line to give him 3 seconds +, and a running game to be better than top 5?

How much of that was Russ?

2015 - Rawls 5.6 ypc
Russ 5.4 ypc

2016 - Running game was a mess
Michael 4.0 ypc
Russ 3.6 ypc
Rawls 3.2 ypc
Collins 4.0 ypc
Prosise 5.7 ypc but only averaged 28 yards a game

2017 - Running game a mess again
Russ - 6.2 ypc and led team in rushing
Lacy 2.6 ypc
Davis 3.5 ypc
Rawls 2.7 ypc
Carson 4.2 ypc

2018 - Carsons 1000 yard season
Carson 4.7 ypc
Davis 4.6 ypc
Penny 4.9 ypc
Russ 5.6 ypc

2019 - Carsons last 1000 season
Carson 4.4 ypc
Russ 4.6 ypc
Penny 5.7 ypc

ETC,,,. My point being is that Wilson inflated the rushing stats pretty much every season and had good chunks of the yards and yardage. The last couple years, his legs started to go south. Pretty strong coincidence as to why they didnt run over the last couple years.
 

keasley45

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So for 2.5 years out of the last 10, we had avg rushing...

And as to Russ bolstering the rush game, that's true. But it's a circular argument. Sans an effective running game, he doesn't get the yards on the keepers.

Did he add to the rushing yards? Of course. But in what universe is 5.6,4.3, 4.2, 4.6, 4.7, 4.9 ypc not outstanding, because that's what the backs were getting.

Save for the lean two years when we struggled to replace Lynch, our backs average solid yards. Squarely good to great
 

keasley45

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Good lord. So Pete and Bevell talked it over on the sideline and agreed to the play to make Wilson the hero? Lol. At least call it like it was. Carroll and Bevell panicked due to Belichick not calling a timeout. The clueless duo got cute and called a play that Browner practiced against everyday while he was in Seattle. Browner told Butler what was coming and the rest is history. If Carroll really wanted Wilson to be the hero, he would have at least gotten the correct personnel on the field or called a play that wasnt so obvious.

Yes Wilson has weaknesses, but his strengths far outweigh them. Yes he quit on Seattle because he had to. He saw the ownership was not going to part with Carroll and he knew nothing would ever change as long as he was there, so he left. Its like beating your head off the wall. You know its not going to fall, but you keep doing it anyways. Russ was tired of beating his head off the wall in Seattle. I dont blame him at all for leaving.

Ok. The call to pass when they did in the superbowl, wasn't panicking. It was a legit call. The play? questionable. The pass? Terrible.

And Russ left because the gig was up. Literally the entire league knows his game. The offenses we ran here were tailored to him. The disconnect between he and PC was regarding how much the team ran vs passed, and how much time SHOULD have been required for Russ to get the ball out. PC - the plays are there, get the ball out ( evidence? All of 2021 when PC was complaining all season, until the last 4 games... about taking plays that were there.. and then celebrating that actually happening when Russ's backup played. And the calls for every play not needing to be spectacular is the exact same criticism Warner had of Russ to close the 2020 season. And his one dimensional, Russball offense (not PCs offense, or Waldrons, or Schottys) was just described in detail in a youtube vid i linked in a thread, questioning what exactly will change with Russ going to Denver. Ie - Denver is about to get the same Russ they saw in Seattle, because that's who he is.
Russ left because the charade wasn't working anymore. He had no more cards to play. It was time for him to pack up and take the show to a new town. He wasn't getting 50 mil here. And frankly, he might not get it in Denver either.

He wooed DK as a rookie. Had him drinking the kool-aid completely, and then even he was fed up with the nonsense of running routes that got him wide open, only to see Russ patting the ball and taking sacks, or not seeing him at all.

Yeah. His skills were amazing. But his flaws... he could sometimes overcome them in spectacular fashion. But only when he had the defense that Pete built and the running back that changed the franchise, was it enough to actually matter.

Even in our golden years, there are articles questioning why Russ's play was so shaky in the playoffs and to close out the season. That was after the Tip game vs the 9ers.

The following year... Unlimited had a 0.0 passer rating in the first half on 4 ints against the Pack.

Ryan, Lynch, Hauschka, an unknown, practice squad wr, and the LOB secured a return trip to the SB. Were it not for them, we'd never even be having these conversations about whether it was Russ who was held back or was doing the holding back. The story would have been about how our 3rd year qb literally threw away a chance to go to our second Superbowl. And everything that followed... literally EVERYTHING from that game to 2021 would have just been confirmation that Russ was good at HIS game, but not good enough to win it all.
 

Palmegranite

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You've gone full delusional after being spurned by your QB.
Scraping barrell when you're now critiquing the wins. I wonder if over on the Packers site they are also criticizing Russell Wilson for the Green Bay loss, one of the greatest games in Seahawks history...

Maybe for your own health, take a cool down period from this Pete Carroll thread.
 

keasley45

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You've gone full delusional after being spurned by your QB.
Scraping barrell when you're now critiquing the wins. I wonder if over on the Packers site they are also criticizing Russell Wilson for the Green Bay loss, one of the greatest games in Seahawks history...

Maybe for your own health, take a cool down period from this Pete Carroll thread.

You cant be spurned by someone you no longer want. I was hoping Russ wouldn't get his last contract. But go ahead and twist it.

That win was critiqued by many and the narrative during the game even was that Lynch and the defense kept the Hawks alive. Russel didn't do anything to help the team in the first half and only got going in the 2nd half when he started running (hmmm. Sound familiar?)

And the win to get us to the superbowl prior, was criticized as well. The dude has had a repeating pattern of nit playing he best ball on the playoffs against great defenses. It's a pattern. Not an anomaly. Had he not had the LOB and Lynch... we don't win those games.

But don't take my word. Maybe this guy traveled to the future, saw Russ's departure 8 years on, and was feeling spurned as well?


The 'you're just upset he left...' critique is tired. Not a fan boy. I'm a football fan, and a Seahawks fan. I want what's best for the team, and Russ's game has proven to be entertaining because of the style he plays. His game is almost entirely improvised (also not an opinion... everyone knows it).
He made the move he had to make.

Best of luck to the Denver Unlimited's...
 

scutterhawk

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Good lord. So Pete and Bevell talked it over on the sideline and agreed to the play to make Wilson the hero? Lol. At least call it like it was. Carroll and Bevell panicked due to Belichick not calling a timeout. The clueless duo got cute and called a play that Browner practiced against everyday while he was in Seattle. Browner told Butler what was coming and the rest is history. If Carroll really wanted Wilson to be the hero, he would have at least gotten the correct personnel on the field or called a play that wasnt so obvious.

Yes Wilson has weaknesses, but his strengths far outweigh them. Yes he quit on Seattle because he had to. He saw the ownership was not going to part with Carroll and he knew nothing would ever change as long as he was there, so he left. Its like beating your head off the wall. You know its not going to fall, but you keep doing it anyways. Russ was tired of beating his head off the wall in Seattle. I dont blame him at all for leaving.
So hmm, Butler (the rookie) outplayed Champ Russell Wilson's piss poor play execution?
HOW COME, if Brady could eat up a 10-point cushion, WHY couldn't Wilson (with all his greatness) match, or even surpass Brady's efforts in the final quarter of that game?
WHY did it all have to funnel down to the LAST LOSING PASS PLAY?
Wilson is one of the best (if not the VERY BEST) deep ball passers in the entire League, and yet he still couldn't get past all those "One & Dones" in the Playoffs because Pete held him back??? DAMN YOU PETE!!

"THE OWNERSHIP" likely figured that because NO ONE was clamoring to take on the HC job FROM PETE CARROLL, that he was STILL the BEST DAMNED OPTION, + they VERY LIKELY reasoned that a disgruntled Wilson was NOT up to the task of REBUILDING/RELOADING for the rest of the TEAMS NEEDS.
#3 had reached his peak here in Seattle.
Jody Allen made the only REAL CHOICE she had, she chose for the best interest of the Seattle Seahawks Franchise, NOT JUST FOR >ONE PLAYER<.
 

Fade

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You say that as if you think the Seahawks are incapable of X's and O's, game planning, and making adjustments on the fly.

And I'm wondering what you mean by "lean in on expending great effort to get it done."

I mean ->

In practice Pete Carroll doesn't stop practice if a player makes a mistake, get in their ear and correct it. But he will stop practice if a player is not exuding great effort, and let them know right then and there.

Pete intentionally over the years has kept his schemes simplified. As he believes players play faster, when they do not have to think. There is a trade off to this approach and it has put him behind most of the league.
 

BlueTalon

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I mean ->

In practice Pete Carroll doesn't stop practice if a player makes a mistake, get in their ear and correct it. But he will stop practice if a player is not exuding great effort, and let them know right then and there.

Pete intentionally over the years has kept his schemes simplified. As he believes players play faster, when they do not have to think. There is a trade off to this approach and it has put him behind most of the league.
Fair enough. That doesn't mean he doesn't do the X's and O's also, but as a point of emphasis, I get what you're saying. It's a different way of doing things. I disagree that it puts him "behind most of the league," but that's fine.
 

scutterhawk

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Fair enough. That doesn't mean he doesn't do the X's and O's also, but as a point of emphasis, I get what you're saying. It's a different way of doing things. I disagree that it puts him "behind most of the league," but that's fine.
I guess Fade doesn't think that practicing & perfecting the FUNDEMENTALS @ game speed to be a good FOUNDATION to expand from; Seemed to work pretty darned well for the LOB.
 

chrispy

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As far as a "pass for this season", it seems like we already have a pretty good roadmap for how this looks. If anyone has a different expectation compared to 2010/2011, then it's really on them and not Pete.

We might remember in 2010 Pete started Matt Hasselbeck but ended up cutting him before 2011. Everyone agrees Matt had a good season and is a great guy, but the FO decided he wanted too much money (more than a 1 year contract I think), so they moved on. The team won 7 games in 2010. Does this not sound familiar?

They signed and used URFA Tarvaris Jackson for the 2011 season. The record in 2011 was 7-9 but the exciting young D was the story, not the QB. TJack had a completion % of 60.3 with 14 TD, 13 INT and 3091 passing yards. PC/JS picked up Matt Flynn and RWilson in the following off-season. Isn't TJack's 2011 season really the thick part of the bell curve when it comes to expectations for Smith/Lock in 2022?

This seems like there's not much to argue about because history is repeating itself relatively closely. I'd be surprised if PC/JS don't draft a QB and bring in a FA next offseason for competition going into 2023.
 

Palmegranite

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Can you point to the signs of an impending, exciting new D any time in the next few years?

I'm wanting to pin my fandom hopes on just this sort of thing.
 

chrispy

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Can you point to the signs of an impending, exciting new D any time in the next few years?

I'm wanting to pin my fandom hopes on just this sort of thing.
In 2010 PC/JS drafted 5 players on D. Of those, Kam and Earl evolved
In 2011, they drafted 6 on D and got KJ and Sherm
In 2012 8 drafted and got Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner
fast forward and in comparison
in 2020 and 2021, there was a total of only 4 players drafted on D, but it included Darrell Taylor and Jordyn Brooks
In 2022 4 more picks on D- we'll see who emerges, but there should be an improved Dbackfield and potentially a passrush with Mafe
In 2023 the Seahawks have 10 picks

Additionally, in my opinion, a big boost to the D results from being able to keep more young talent and bring in quality FAs whereas for a few years there's been a lot of Cap Space used on Offense.

So... "impending" might be too optimistic for 2022, but "potential" (in my opinion) is pretty reasonable for the next few years.
 

BlueTalon

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We might remember in 2010 Pete started Matt Hasselbeck but ended up cutting him before 2011.
As I recall, Matt's contract had expired, and he was in negotiations before the walkout/lockout. PC/JS (I'm not sure exactly who) told him that if he didn't sign the contract before the lockout, they were going to go in another direction at QB. Matt, thinking it was just a negotiating tactic, went into the lockout unsigned. After the lockout, he wanted to resume negotiations, but was told to his great surprise that he was no longer being considered.

Something like that.
 

BlueTalon

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I wouldn’t mind history repeating itself. But history STARTED with replacing a bad head coach. Let’s start there.
The relevant part of the history just recounted was the building of the team by the current head coach. I seem to remember that turning out pretty good.
 

pittpnthrs

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And Russ left because the gig was up. Literally the entire league knows his game. The offenses we ran here were tailored to him. The disconnect between he and PC was regarding how much the team ran vs passed, and how much time SHOULD have been required for Russ to get the ball out. PC - the plays are there, get the ball out ( evidence? All of 2021 when PC was complaining all season, until the last 4 games... about taking plays that were there.. and then celebrating that actually happening when Russ's backup played. And the calls for every play not needing to be spectacular is the exact same criticism Warner had of Russ to close the 2020 season. And his one dimensional, Russball offense (not PCs offense, or Waldrons, or Schottys) was just described in detail in a youtube vid i linked in a thread, questioning what exactly will change with Russ going to Denver. Ie - Denver is about to get the same Russ they saw in Seattle, because that's who he is.
Russ left because the charade wasn't working anymore. He had no more cards to play. It was time for him to pack up and take the show to a new town. He wasn't getting 50 mil here. And frankly, he might not get it in Denver either.

He wooed DK as a rookie. Had him drinking the kool-aid completely, and then even he was fed up with the nonsense of running routes that got him wide open, only to see Russ patting the ball and taking sacks, or not seeing him at all.

Yeah. His skills were amazing. But his flaws... he could sometimes overcome them in spectacular fashion. But only when he had the defense that Pete built and the running back that changed the franchise, was it enough to actually matter.

Even in our golden years, there are articles questioning why Russ's play was so shaky in the playoffs and to close out the season. That was after the Tip game vs the 9ers.

The following year... Unlimited had a 0.0 passer rating in the first half on 4 ints against the Pack.

Ryan, Lynch, Hauschka, an unknown, practice squad wr, and the LOB secured a return trip to the SB. Were it not for them, we'd never even be having these conversations about whether it was Russ who was held back or was doing the holding back. The story would have been about how our 3rd year qb literally threw away a chance to go to our second Superbowl. And everything that followed... literally EVERYTHING from that game to 2021 would have just been confirmation that Russ was good at HIS game, but not good enough to win it all.

Celebrating when Smith took the scripted plays and went 1-3 in those four starts. Awesome.

If Denver gets the same Wilson that Seattle had, i'm sure they are going to be ecstatic with their 10 to 13 wins.

DK was fed up with Wilson? If so, he is going to be downright miserable for the foreseeable future. I'm sure you'll be one of the first people to criticize him when he starts whining because his numbers are cut in half.

Nice fan fiction about the story. Instead the reality is how Carroll squandered a should have been dynasty. Hey its cool your in Petes corner because he won us a Super Bowl, but the writing has been on the wall for years now and it takes some longer to accept it.
 
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