3 FA WR's vs Golden Tate

[Cyrus12]

Decker is the 3rd guy Manning looks at so he probabbly doesn't get the coverage like he would on a team like the Raiders....Not a fan..with rather have Tate as he is more versatile. Decker's off field reality crap show also isn't good for a guy who we would want to be a #1 here. Too much other stuff on the go is not good...

Maclin is good but coming off ACL which is a risk.

I really don't hink any of these guys are gonna take a hometown discount especially if we take home Vince's mug this year!

 

[Jville]

Now that we are back on topic, I expect player retention and contract adjustments to be the off season priority. I don't see them chasing or bidding on any high profile free agents out there. I do think the Sidney Rice contract will be either terminated and or renegotiated at some point in time. This coming off season will be an opportunity to take another look at a physical red line receiver and a hybrid wide receiver.

 

[kearly]

I hope we keep Tate.

If Seattle does sign a FA WR, I'd assume it would be of the bargain bin variety like Stephen Williams. The guy on the top of my wishlist (again) is Danario Alexander. He can't stay healthy and he's basically only had half of one season of production, but he's 6'5", he runs very well after the catch and he'd add instant fear and respect for our WR group for as long as he's out there. You could probably get him for 1 year, $1 million, and if healthy he'd be the exact kind of deep sideline weapon that Seattle needs.

I'd also trade quite a bit for Josh Gordon, though it appears he isn't going anywhere now that Michael Lombardi has finally realized the obvious.

 

[IndyHawk]

Isn't Riley Cooper a FA too? I would take him over Decker at half price. He also seems pretty well liked by his Eagles teammates, which says a lot after the controversy earlier this year.

I like him ,I think he would fit in well with the Hawks..

 

[HawkWow]

Tate has been better for you guys than I ever would have thought.

I wouldn't touch Decker with a 10 foot pole. That's all Manning.

Agreed about both Tate and Decker. Tate has started to get some national love in the second half of this season, but he's still underrated, IMO. I think a fair number of teams will be all over him. He deserves it. Heck, including injury history and coachability into the equation I might even like him a hair more than Harvin, and I really like Harvin a lot.

And this one of the reasons I've been pissed, if not livid, that Harvin elected to have his pre-season surgery. Who didn't see this coming with Tate? When Harvin was signed, Tate instantly voiced his displeasure. ..then subsequently backed off, "welcoming" Harvin aboard. I think some of that was his bro, RW.

I also think Tate and Wilson probably stepped up their personal training sessions immediately after. I am not surprised in the least that Tate tore it up this year in harvin's absence. His production would likely have been half of what it was, and his expected pay much less as well. Now Tate, once known as "the poor man's Percy harvin" is about to become the rich man's Golden Tate. Is the Hawk org. that "rich man" or will someone else now benefit from a (finally) complete Golden Tate?

I've backed off of Harvin because of this theory that he's going to take the field...but if we lose Tate and get stuck with a sometimes available Harvin, this trade will go down as the worst in franchise history, whether you wear #11 pajamas or not.

 

[BASF]

I've backed off of Harvin because of this theory that he's going to take the field...but if we lose Tate and get stuck with a sometimes available Harvin, this trade will go down as the worst in franchise history, whether you wear #11 pajamas or not.

Nothing will ever come close to giving up the rights to Tony Dorsett. Also worse would be the Deion Branch trade. Also worse would be giving up Ahman Green for Fred Vinson who was worse than Kelly Jennings.

 

[HawkWow]

Good pts. But they all fall short. Harvin could cost us a 1st, a 3rd, a 7th and Golden Tate. It would take some creativity to make any of those deals appear as bad.

Dorsett, as awesome as he was, would have been running behind an expansion team line in Seattle. No telling how that would have went.

Ahman was a 3rd rd pick. Regardless of how great he became (thanks Holmy) he cost us a 3rd.

We gave a single 1st for Branch. And IIRC, got a 3rd in return for him.

 

[Shock2k]

I like Percy Harvin, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse. All home grown receivers with exceptional ball handling skills that fit the system.

As for Tate, I wouldn't give him up. Seeing a receiver that's willing to lay some wood on a DB in order to get a couple more yards is priceless.

Unless they fall off, I want to keep the guys that are getting us a first round bye and home field throughout the playoffs.

 

[HawkWow]

I like Percy Harvin, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse. All home grown receivers with exceptional ball handling skills that fit the system.

As for Tate, I wouldn't give him up. Seeing a receiver that's willing to lay some wood on a DB in order to get a couple more yards is priceless.

Unless they fall off, I want to keep the guys that are getting us a first round bye and home field throughout the playoffs.

This. And unsure what message it sends to the rest of the league (FAs) as well. If we're not doing well with this group...upgrade. Everybody understands this is a business and when players are not pulling their weight, an upgrade is compulsory. But when your players give you wayyy more than they are paid, while winning, you have to take care of them, IMO.

 

[Exittium]

Where's Tates YAC compared to those dudes as well?

 

[Missing_Clink]

I love Tate but the team needs to get at least 1 tall WR. Gotta have a big, physical guy that can come back to the football when Wilson scrambles and win jump balls. Wilson deserves to have such a pass catcher on the team. If Harvin and Tate are both earning big money, likely the only way to get a big WR is to finally hit on one in the draft.

 

[gmor]

Decker would come at a steep price. He'd be the second coming of Sidney Rice, overpaid and underperforming. Which would describe Percy thus far too.

Agreed!

 

[gmor]

question is, can you guys afford Tate?? hate to brake it to you guys, but the salary cap is going to start to hurt you

I think we are all quite aware. You guys won't be sitting so pretty once Kaepernick gets 18M/yr either.

Tate will come down to what kind of offers he receives. If he's $6m or less I think we re-sign him. If he wants more I think he'll walk.

Overpaying for players is the worst thing we can do. With our recent drafting success, JS/Pete should feel less inclined to reach for FA's.

 

[getnasty]

To say Harvins contract will cost us Tate is wrong and is just hating on Harvin again. Sydney will be cut and there will be room for GT. I want a tall WR as much as anyone and hope we draft one, but remember GT plays way taller then he is listed.

 

[Popeyejones]

To say Harvins contract will cost us Tate is wrong and is just hating on Harvin again. Sydney will be cut and there will be room for GT.

In a vacuum sure, but I don't think anyone is talking in a vacuum. Harvin is making 13.5 million next year. True that if/when they cut Rice the differential in salary and dead money between the two will add up to 5-6 million, but folks are talking holistically, not a one-to-one replacement.

Holistically == in the next two years Russ, Sherm, and ET3 going from making 5 million annually combined to somewhere around 45 million annually combined (if not more; 18 + 15 + 12) if they all stick around.

The question is, given those constraints, can the team afford to pay Harvin 13.5 million AND pay Tate 8-10 million.

If so, we're talking a QB, a CB, a FS, and two good but somewhat redundant WRs taking up > 50% of the cap.

That's not blaming Harvin for anything, it's just being pragmatic, IMO. Tate is the type of very good (but non-indisposable) player that frequently has to be let go in these situations.

I'm not just "hating" mind you -- I like Harvin, I like Tate, as a team I like the Hawks despite not rooting for them -- but as a 9ers fans I've seen these types of players already been shown the door for the same reason (e.g. Goldson, Walker, Sopoaga, Francois). Everybody from the owner down through the coaching staff and all the way to the casual fan wanted to keep these guys, but it just wasn't feasible.

 

[HawkWow]

To say Harvins contract will cost us Tate is wrong and is just hating on Harvin again. Sydney will be cut and there will be room for GT.

In a vacuum sure, but I don't think anyone is talking in a vacuum. Harvin is making 13.5 million next year. True that if/when they cut Rice the differential in salary and dead money between the two will add up to 5-6 million, but folks are talking holistically, not a one-to-one replacement.

Holistically == in the next two years Russ, Sherm, and ET3 going from making 5 million annually combined to somewhere around 45 million annually combined (if not more; 18 + 15 + 12) if they all stick around.

The question is, given those constraints, can the team afford to pay Harvin 13.5 million AND pay Tate 8-10 million.

If so, we're talking a QB, a CB, a FS, and two good but somewhat redundant WRs taking up > 50% of the cap.

That's not blaming Harvin for anything, it's just being pragmatic, IMO. Tate is the type of very good (but non-indisposable) player that frequently has to be let go in these situations.

I'm not just "hating" mind you -- I like Harvin, I like Tate, as a team I like the Hawks despite not rooting for them -- but as a 9ers fans I've seen these types of players already been shown the door for the same reason (e.g. Goldson, Walker, Sopoaga, Francois). Everybody from the owner down through the coaching staff and all the way to the casual fan wanted to keep these guys, but it just wasn't feasible.

Excellent post and take on the subject. Some fail to understand analytical thinking will sometimes go against the grain. This "hater" thing seems to be most used by the very emotional (perhaps due to an inordinate amount of estrogen).

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Your estimate of Thomas/Sherman is wrong. Thomas will get ~$10m and Sherman will get ~$12m. That's an increase of $18m/yr. If they cut Clemons and Rice that's a difference of $2.2m/yr (ignoring whoever they would have to sign/draft to replace them). On top of that Miller's cap number decreases by $4m next year so right there they are already covered.

Just wanted to say I nailed this.

 

[raisethe3]

Your estimate of Thomas/Sherman is wrong. Thomas will get ~$10m and Sherman will get ~$12m. That's an increase of $18m/yr. If they cut Clemons and Rice that's a difference of $2.2m/yr (ignoring whoever they would have to sign/draft to replace them). On top of that Miller's cap number decreases by $4m next year so right there they are already covered.

Just wanted to say I nailed this.