Are the Patriots Still Cheaters?

[hawksurething]

Brady already admitted he likes throwing deflated balls in 2011 interview. Then he lied saying he did not touch the balls before the game when any fan knows the QB selects the balls he likes with the ball boy before the game ! Fact !

Hawks fans Never stay tricked !

 

[SnoCoHawk]

Maybe the 2007 sudden downturn in fumbles (and upturn when players leave the Pats) doesn't have to do with PSI. Maybe the Pats just have a technique that puts a really nice grip on their balls.

:stirthepot: :snack:

(You have to admit that there have been a LOT of players and staff that have come and gone from the Pats in the past 8 seasons, some of whom had to have been disgruntled. That's a heck of a secret for everyone to keep for this long. Did Belechick pay them off? Threaten them? Erase their memories a la Men in Black?)

Then that grip on the ball is forgotten when they go to another team? :roll:

Sorry, I didn't mean the way they hold the ball - I meant a particularly grippable surface treatment.

 

[vonstout]

I'm not a stats expert, but I have an engineering degree. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to look at the numbers of individual players like Brady, BJGE, Amendola, etc. and see the HUGE improvement from pre and post 2007 or stats with NE vs. other teams. You say everyone is looking at it with a biased perception because of hatred/jealousy of the Pats. I suggest that you are the one who has more of a bias to your team and can't accept that your teams success may not be solely based on coaching and talent.

You said that 2 psi is hardly noticeable. If that's true, why would Brady say he likes under inflated balls? Mark Brunell was given three balls with different pressures and he could tell immediately which one was under/over/within the required pressure. To say Brady couldn't tell the difference is laughable.

I read the article you provided. Did you read mine? If you won't even comment on the article I linked to than how can we communicate properly? If you read it you would see that it is not as cut and dry as you like to make it sound. Open your eyes and realize that the Patriots are not even the least likely team to fumble if you count per completed passes, sacks and running plays. This is a more accurate measuring stick than some per play stat that counts incompletions. That article you linked to was a joke.

Can we both agree that Mark Brunnell was a bit emotional about this topic and may have a very slanted view. My God, the guy was crying about a ball that may have been slightly under the recommended psi.

Remember the facts are not even out yet. Nobody knows the measured psi. I read a report that says all the balls were a tick under (probably due to weather) except the ball the Colts had in their possession. If true, the Colts more than likely tested the ball for psi and inadvertently let out some air. Where is the outrage? Oh Yeah, I forgot the Colts suck and no one cares! Hopefully the report will get released and the NFL will show everyone that they are incompetent and they screwed up the whole affair. What a joke this whole scandal is. Tell me this if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't you be appalled at the way this has been handled. Leaked info leading up to the biggest game of the year. No one recorded the psi. Balls were approved by the refs before the game. The NFL league office was told to look for lower psi before the game and yet no one took measures to check and record the PSI. A league official was a known ball thief and was allowed to be part of the AFCCG. The league decided to change the psi of the balls at halftime and did not inform the Patriots until Monday morning.

I did read the article and the summary made statements that they didn't back up with any stats. I looked at the fumble rates of several players myself and posted the large discrepancy earlier. The numbers speak for themselves. Don't take that to mean that I disregard the fact that the article I referenced doesn't necessarily have it's issues too. That's why I looked up the fumble/pick numbers myself and although several things can impact the numbers, including experience with age, Brady's reduced numbers were pretty drastic and the change started in 2007. Coincidence? Who knows. We'll never agree on this one, so I'm not going to spend any more time on it.

 

[ringless]

As an unbiased Cardinals fan....... But I believe that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Patriots are in fact cheaters.... A leopard doesn't doesn't change its spots and I think the Patriots have proven that over the years. They deserve a tarnished reputation forever..... Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football. It doesn't matter what Seahawks fans think, or Patriots fans think... At the end of the day most of the world believes the Patriots are cheaters. Thats the perception, and as they say.... Perception is reality.

I feel bad for the teams and players that go out there and play within the rules... Giving their blood, sweat and tears... The sacrifices they make to try to get to a Championship game and knowing that some of them were robbed over the years by this disgusting selfish team. There should be asterisks next too any and every accomplishment the Patriots have supposedly earned.

 

[NWPatsFan]

As an unbiased Cardinals fan....... But I believe that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Patriots are in fact cheaters.... A leopard doesn't doesn't change its spots and I think the Patriots have proven that over the years. They deserve a tarnished reputation forever..... Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football. It doesn't matter what Seahawks fans think, or Patriots fans think... At the end of the day most of the world believes the Patriots are cheaters. Thats the perception, and as they say.... Perception is reality.

I feel bad for the teams and players that go out there and play within the rules... Giving their blood, sweat and tears... The sacrifices they make to try to get to a Championship game and knowing that some of them were robbed over the years by this disgusting selfish team. There should be asterisks next too any and every accomplishment the Patriots have supposedly earned.

Everyone says they have a history of cheating. But when you look at the amount of times they have been caught doing something illegal it is right in line with other teams level of cheating. Yet hardly anyone makes a big deal about other teams because they are not as successful as the ("greatest franchise ever in all of sports" kinda making a joke) NE Patriots.

Who has been robbed by the Patriots and what are the specifics of your statement, "Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football". People throw this b.s. out there all the time and usually have very little evidence to back it up. What specific instances are you referring to?

Also, perception is not reality. Reality is Reality. Perception is usually influenced by many biases, especially when it is controlled by the corporate media.

 

[hawksurething]

Brady picked his balls for the ball boy to line up. Pats lost their 1st round pick over cheating. Enough said..

 

[ringless]

As an unbiased Cardinals fan....... But I believe that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Patriots are in fact cheaters.... A leopard doesn't doesn't change its spots and I think the Patriots have proven that over the years. They deserve a tarnished reputation forever..... Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football. It doesn't matter what Seahawks fans think, or Patriots fans think... At the end of the day most of the world believes the Patriots are cheaters. Thats the perception, and as they say.... Perception is reality.

I feel bad for the teams and players that go out there and play within the rules... Giving their blood, sweat and tears... The sacrifices they make to try to get to a Championship game and knowing that some of them were robbed over the years by this disgusting selfish team. There should be asterisks next too any and every accomplishment the Patriots have supposedly earned.

Everyone says they have a history of cheating. But when you look at the amount of times they have been caught doing something illegal it is right in line with other teams level of cheating. Yet hardly anyone makes a big deal about other teams because they are not as successful as the ("greatest franchise ever in all of sports" kinda making a joke) NE Patriots.

Who has been robbed by the Patriots and what are the specifics of your statement, "Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football". People throw this b.s. out there all the time and usually have very little evidence to back it up. What specific instances are you referring to?

Also, perception is not reality. Reality is Reality. Perception is usually influenced by many biases, especially when it is controlled by the corporate media.

How about the Ravens? The whole illegal substitution that was legal because even the refs didn't do their jobs... Sure, the blame can be put onto the refs because they didn't give the defense the time to adjust but thats the Patriot way.... Exploit exploit exploit....

I would say that it is very possible that the balls have been under inflated for quite some time now. Considering the data, and the fact that the Patriots are the ones who lobbied for the rule change in the first place.... Is it circumstantial, yes.... It certainly looks like something that MAY have been happening for quite some time..... If thats true then I would say lots of teams have been robbed over the years... Not only the teams but the fans of those teams.... Not only the fans of those teams but the fans of the Patriots.... Of course its unlikely we will ever know the truth.. However that seed has been planted. If it was the Steelers or Ravens who had done this I'd be willing to bet that most Patriots fans would be condemning them as well.

 

[Rex]

As an unbiased Cardinals fan....... But I believe that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Patriots are in fact cheaters.... A leopard doesn't doesn't change its spots and I think the Patriots have proven that over the years. They deserve a tarnished reputation forever..... Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football. It doesn't matter what Seahawks fans think, or Patriots fans think... At the end of the day most of the world believes the Patriots are cheaters. Thats the perception, and as they say.... Perception is reality.

I feel bad for the teams and players that go out there and play within the rules... Giving their blood, sweat and tears... The sacrifices they make to try to get to a Championship game and knowing that some of them were robbed over the years by this disgusting selfish team. There should be asterisks next too any and every accomplishment the Patriots have supposedly earned.

Thanks. It was my Rams great misfortune to have the NFL turn the Super Bowl into a 9/11 rally by fraudulently placing the Cheatriots in the game by virtue of the "Tuck Rule" against the Raiders. Then the officials refused to call the penalties against the Cheatriots taking away the Rams passing game. Complete utter theft and years later we find out they knew the Rams plays through Tape Gate. They are the dirtiest slimiest most vile franchise in all of professional sports and they flaunt it because the league office is in their back pocket. ukeface:

 

[NWPatsFan]

As an unbiased Cardinals fan....... But I believe that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Patriots are in fact cheaters.... A leopard doesn't doesn't change its spots and I think the Patriots have proven that over the years. They deserve a tarnished reputation forever..... Always finding ways to exploit rules, or gain little advantages that are against the rules instead of just playing football. It doesn't matter what Seahawks fans think, or Patriots fans think... At the end of the day most of the world believes the Patriots are cheaters. Thats the perception, and as they say.... Perception is reality.

I feel bad for the teams and players that go out there and play within the rules... Giving their blood, sweat and tears... The sacrifices they make to try to get to a Championship game and knowing that some of them were robbed over the years by this disgusting selfish team. There should be asterisks next too any and every accomplishment the Patriots have supposedly earned.

Thanks. It was my Rams great misfortune to have the NFL turn the Super Bowl into a 9/11 rally by fraudulently placing the Cheatriots in the game by virtue of the "Tuck Rule" against the Raiders. Then the officials refused to call the penalties against the Cheatriots taking away the Rams passing game. Complete utter theft and years later we find out they knew the Rams plays through Tape Gate. They are the dirtiest slimiest most vile franchise in all of professional sports and they flaunt it because the league office is in their back pocket. ukeface:

Tape Gate was a fraud the writer admitted he was wrong and retracted the story. Even if you want to say it was true, the report said it was a tape of the walk through the day before the SB. The Rams were practicing their red zone offense only. The Patriots did not stop the Rams in the red zone on that glorious day.

Tuck rule was not enforced incorrectly. That was a textbook case of the use of that rule, which by the way had been called against the Patriots earlier in the year vs. the Jets. If you want to say the rule should not have been in place, I don't have a problem with that, but don't get all butt hurt because the refs called the play correctly. Watch the replay of that play from all the different angles, there are two angles that clearly show Woodson hit Brady in the head as he is going for the sack, that is the only thing people should have a problem with on that call. The Patriots got shafted, they should have been awarded 15 yards and a first down.

It is a shame that you cannot get over the fact that the Patriots were the better "team" that year, even during the regular season game, the Patriots should have won except for a silly turnover on a mishandling of a snap deep in Ram territory.

You really should form a therapy group with Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner and get over it. Who was it that said "a dynasty will be born tonight" (Ricky Proehl??) Well whoever it was, he was right, except it was The Patriots not the Rams.

 

[253hawk]

I'm not sure which is worse -- a cheater or a cheater apologist.

 

[NWPatsFan]

I'm not sure which is worse -- a cheater or a cheater apologist.

Well , when you figure out which is worse why don't you come back and add some real substance to this thread. If you don't agree with what I am saying that is fine but at least offer something. My goodness!

 

[Rex]

You really should form a therapy group with Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner and get over it. Who was it that said "a dynasty will be born tonight" (Ricky Proehl??) Well whoever it was, he was right, except it was The Patriots not the Rams.

You should get used to the reality that the rest of the NFL fan base knows the Cheatriots WITHOUT QUESTION stole 3 super bowls and time will tell if this last one is included as well. Only reason to destroy the Tape Gate evidence is if it calls into serious question the integrity of the game. Belicheat has no integrity and the legacy of your team in this era is one of mistrust, deceit and deception that no trophy case can erase.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

 

[NWPatsFan]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

You know you are winning a debate when people have nothing to counter argue good points. If people would stop being envious and look at the facts they would be able to understand how they have been munipulated by the anti-Belichick/Patriot press.

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

 

[chris98251]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

You know you are winning a debate when people have nothing to counter argue good points. If people would stop being envious and look at the facts they would be able to understand how they have been munipulated by the anti-Belichick/Patriot press.

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

You only argument is that everyone is jealous of the cheating scumbags that have Goodell in their back pocket due to the friendship with the owner who destroyed the tapes so that any other investigations could not be done. They Cheat, they deceive, they circumvent the rules and good sportsmanship. You have no valid argument. Your coach feels he is above the rules as well, nobody is allowed to give him crap about his interviews, or no shows that are blessed by the league, but let Lynch not want to talk and a shit storm unfolds. Huge Bias in just about everything.

31 other teams in the league smell that stench, just because you live in it and can't smell it yourself does not mean it does not exist.

 

[Rex]

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

The tapes were shown to the public? Really? All of the tapes? Interesting. That must be why they no longer exist? No one recorded their showing? And the Cheatriots and Belicheat were fined and sanctioned by the NFL for? You're laughable. "looses"? Really masshole?

 

[NWPatsFan]

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

The tapes were shown to the public? Really? All of the tapes? Interesting. That must be why they no longer exist? No one recorded their showing? And the Cheatriots and Belicheat were fined and sanctioned by the NFL for? You're laughable. "looses"? Really masshole?

And you really know you are winning the debate when folks call you names and complain about a typo. Good Lord, I know it is an emotional topic, but at least read the thread.

No one will ever know if all the tapes were shown, so I guess we have to go with what we know. But the tapes that were airewd were very repetitive and quite boring. This type of taping was not uncommon and still goes on today...it just can't be done on the sidelines. Tell me this, what possible advantage could the Patriots get from this that any other team doesn't already get? It is not illegal to tape signals. It was illegal where they had the camera, the league fined Belichick and the Patriots for being "arrogant", they paid a very heavy price (not fair in any unbiased opinion) due to the commish trying to show everyone who was BOSS. It didn't elp that the new Commish had previous ties to the hated rival NY Jets. If this had happened to your team you would be just as appalled by the leagues action.

Tell me this, how come no one is saying the Seahawks last two seasons are tainted due to their recent "cheating". Adderall and extra practices, those two violations definitely give them an unfair advantage over other teams. Where is the outrage? It is not there because it is a minor issue, just like the Patriots. The only difference is that the Patriots have a head coach that despises the media and the media takes every shot they can at the Patriots and blows all these stories up. It generates lots of clicks on the internet and sells papers because lots of fans of other teams hate the Pats due to their continued success. How does that not make sense? I know I am biased to the Patriots, however, I also am more educated on these issues and have a deeper understanding of the scandals and don't rely on just ESPN to tell me how to think.

 

[NWPatsFan]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

You know you are winning a debate when people have nothing to counter argue good points. If people would stop being envious and look at the facts they would be able to understand how they have been munipulated by the anti-Belichick/Patriot press.

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

You only argument is that everyone is jealous of the cheating scumbags that have Goodell in their back pocket due to the friendship with the owner who destroyed the tapes so that any other investigations could not be done. They Cheat, they deceive, they circumvent the rules and good sportsmanship. You have no valid argument. Your coach feels he is above the rules as well, nobody is allowed to give him crap about his interviews, or no shows that are blessed by the league, but let Lynch not want to talk and a shit storm unfolds. Huge Bias in just about everything.

31 other teams in the league smell that stench, just because you live in it and can't smell it yourself does not mean it does not exist.

Point by point. Do you think other fans are jealous/envious of the Patriots? If yes, then it stands to reason that the media in those markets would write articles that feed into that emotion. If they hear any controversy about the Patriots they know they can generate interest by blowing the story up and making the Patriots seem like the evil franchise. Is that a fair assumption? If no than we can agree to disagree.

There are other factors for sure, like Belichick's dislike for the media. He just doesn't have tolerance for the soap opera type questions the media asks and he bothers lots of reporters by keeping to the football ones. You would think that reporters would have learned by now to ask more appropriate questions to engage Bill, as he can be quite entertaining when you get him discussing football or history related topics.

So many people in this thread repeatedly say the Patriots "cheat", yet name one NFL organization that has not been accused of a violation by the league office. If there are any I will be shocked, yet the Patriots are singled out. It is hypocrisy and the only folks who don't see that are blinded by their hate/jealousy. "they Hate Us, 'Cause They Ain't Us"

 

[Sports Hernia]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

You know you are winning a debate when people have nothing to counter argue good points. If people would stop being envious and look at the facts they would be able to understand how they have been munipulated by the anti-Belichick/Patriot press.

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

You only argument is that everyone is jealous of the cheating scumbags that have Goodell in their back pocket due to the friendship with the owner who destroyed the tapes so that any other investigations could not be done. They Cheat, they deceive, they circumvent the rules and good sportsmanship. You have no valid argument. Your coach feels he is above the rules as well, nobody is allowed to give him crap about his interviews, or no shows that are blessed by the league, but let Lynch not want to talk and a shit storm unfolds. Huge Bias in just about everything.

31 other teams in the league smell that stench, just because you live in it and can't smell it yourself does not mean it does not exist.

Point by point. Do you think other fans are jealous/envious of the Patriots? If yes, then it stands to reason that the media in those markets would write articles that feed into that emotion. If they hear any controversy about the Patriots they know they can generate interest by blowing the story up and making the Patriots seem like the evil franchise. Is that a fair assumption? If no than we can agree to disagree.

There are other factors for sure, like Belichick's dislike for the media. He just doesn't have tolerance for the soap opera type questions the media asks and he bothers lots of reporters by keeping to the football ones. You would think that reporters would have learned by now to ask more appropriate questions to engage Bill, as he can be quite entertaining when you get him discussing football or history related topics.

So many people in this thread repeatedly say the Patriots "cheat", yet name one NFL organization that has not been accused of a violation by the league office. If there are any I will be shocked, yet the Patriots are singled out. It is hypocrisy and the only folks who don't see that are blinded by their hate/jealousy. "they Hate Us, 'Cause They Ain't Us"

So everyone is a hypocrite but Pats fans? .........got it! :sarcasm_off:
Your broken record routine is starting to try my patience........ I know Pats fans are almost "extinct" around these parts these days for some reason 8) ..........you may want to come up with some new material real soon as for some reason I cannot get the "gong show" theme out of my head......

 

[chris98251]

Hawks, Rams, Cards fans all ganging up a cheatriots fan/apologist..... I like it! :th2thumbs:

Just need some 9'ers fans to join in a make a complete beat down compliments of the NFCW fan bases! :stirthepot:
Marvin? Popeye? Living? Kats? Lucky? 5rustyrings? What say you?

You know you are winning a debate when people have nothing to counter argue good points. If people would stop being envious and look at the facts they would be able to understand how they have been munipulated by the anti-Belichick/Patriot press.

The tapes were shown to the public and were exactly what Belichick said they were. They destroyed them so no one could use them anymore. The whole affair was blown out of prop[ortion and wasn't even illegal until 2006 when the memo was sent out. So tell me how are the SB's tainted? You folks are laughable and looses when it comes to facts.

You only argument is that everyone is jealous of the cheating scumbags that have Goodell in their back pocket due to the friendship with the owner who destroyed the tapes so that any other investigations could not be done. They Cheat, they deceive, they circumvent the rules and good sportsmanship. You have no valid argument. Your coach feels he is above the rules as well, nobody is allowed to give him crap about his interviews, or no shows that are blessed by the league, but let Lynch not want to talk and a shit storm unfolds. Huge Bias in just about everything.

31 other teams in the league smell that stench, just because you live in it and can't smell it yourself does not mean it does not exist.

Point by point. Do you think other fans are jealous/envious of the Patriots? If yes, then it stands to reason that the media in those markets would write articles that feed into that emotion. If they hear any controversy about the Patriots they know they can generate interest by blowing the story up and making the Patriots seem like the evil franchise. Is that a fair assumption? If no than we can agree to disagree.

There are other factors for sure, like Belichick's dislike for the media. He just doesn't have tolerance for the soap opera type questions the media asks and he bothers lots of reporters by keeping to the football ones. You would think that reporters would have learned by now to ask more appropriate questions to engage Bill, as he can be quite entertaining when you get him discussing football or history related topics.

So many people in this thread repeatedly say the Patriots "cheat", yet name one NFL organization that has not been accused of a violation by the league office. If there are any I will be shocked, yet the Patriots are singled out. It is hypocrisy and the only folks who don't see that are blinded by their hate/jealousy. "they Hate Us, 'Cause They Ain't Us"

Have other teams had infractions, yes. But those are hiccups over years here and there. The Patriots are poster boys for what have you broken lately as far as rules go.

I look at it this way, Mohammed Ali spent a period of his life in Jail, Mike Tyson did as well, now you figure out which one is closest to what everyone knows the Patriots are. Both have been in jail but one had much bigger issues and a history of problems.